The Great TFL Pistol Hog Hunt Challenge!

[Art Eatman]

I wuz westbound on I-10 all day Saturday; IIRC, the forecast was for rain in the Panhandle. And, Sunday, a chilly front hit central Texas, so the Panhandle got it first.

I hope the weather conditions weren't too adverse...

Art

[Capt. Charlie]

With Wilma pounding S. Fla. as we speak, I'm betting Rich's return is going to be delayed a day or two.

[Ian2005]

Still eager to hear the results of the "pistol off"

[Joven]

Like a kid at Christmas!

[20cows]

On Friday, October 17, four brave souls will hazard the wilds of the Texas Panhandle

I'm a bit confused. When is this happening?

[Capt. Charlie]

This is a continuation of a challenge between Rich and Harley on whether or not Harley can take down a hog with a .45. It went from verbal to the real McCoy in the Texas panhandle. The original, tons o' fun, thread and challenge is here.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=184571

[Long Path]

They went long, and stayed an extra day. My hope is that this was to get everybody a hog, rather than to just score the first hog.

[H&H,hunter]

Preliminary reports indicate that a 9MM and boar hogs are a very poor combination.

For those of us who have been hunting hogs in traditional spot and stalk technique, this doesn't come as a surprise.

Just like the numerous other caliber /bullet combinations Ashley and I have seen fail over the years.

There are many different ways to hunt hogs. Most hunt them over a bait on a stand. You can use any damn thing you want there because you can pick your shots.

Spot and stalk and jump shooting does not offer that luxury. And therefore requires some horse power. Less than perfect angles and all that stuff I always talk about............

In any case I just got a very preliminary report it'll be interseting to see what the actual participants have to say.

[Greybeard]

Several of been watchin' for a report. Thanks for the "preliminary". ' Hope they all get back home safely - with or without meat from Mr. Big Pig.

[Art Eatman]

H&H, while I'd never plan on hunting a hog with a 9mm, there have been three different times when I was hunting in thick cover and had hogs walk past within ten feet of me. They never knew I was there. "Double-double-tap" shots with a 9mm would have been easy-easy-easy.

Circumstance. Always circumstance.

Art

[H&H,hunter]

H&H, while I'd never plan on hunting a hog with a 9mm, there have been three different times when I was hunting in thick cover and had hogs walk past within ten feet of me. They never knew I was there. "Double-double-tap" shots with a 9mm would have been easy-easy-easy.

Circumstance. Always circumstance.

Art

Art,

No argument here. We've killed several hogs with a .22lr when the circumstances were just perfect.

Using the appropriate equipment merely expands your "circumstance" window dramatically

Greg

[Rich Lucibella]

OK-
I'm back. We did delay and hunt Monday because the eye of Wilma was busy trashing my home on the ocean in Palm Beach County and I couldn't get back. Came home to 1/2 dozen lost souls who took refuge here and continue to be amazed at how poorly prepared people are. They were without hot water, electricity and cooking.

Withing 30 minutes of arriving home they had:
1) Electricity fed by a 500 gallon propane fed generator that needed only a battery jump.
2) Hot water fed by a propane hot water heater that needed a pilot lit.
3) Stove that required a match to light as the sparker was off due to power loss.

We're now cooking for the entire PD. We have refrigeration, ice, Sat TV, Radio, telephones, lights, hot water and cooking facilities.....and I appear to be among the 1:30 that does. Unbelievable to me, considering this was all factored into the building of the home at less than $10K.

For the more tight-fisted, not a single neighbor has known what a Sun Shower is and no-one seems to own a camping stove!

House damage is significant, though not catastrophic. Papers came by to photograph a catamaran in my swimming pool.....how it made it over a 5' block wall remains a mystery.

Hunt report to follow.
Rich

[Art Eatman]

Rich, welcome to the world of the Amazed Observer. You watch the Lost, Strayed and Bewildered as long as I have, and you wind up with neck problems from shaking your head...

[Long Path]

H&H, while I'd never plan on hunting a hog with a 9mm, there have been three different times when I was hunting in thick cover and had hogs walk past within ten feet of me. They never knew I was there. "Double-double-tap" shots with a 9mm would have been easy-easy-easy.

But Art, if you were going to go hunting with a 9mm with hog as a possible target, what would be your most preferred load?
What would be your least preferred 9mm load? Play along with me, here. This might be pertinent...

Ooh, I hate spoilers! I'll shut up now...

[CobrayCommando]

The suspense is killing me!

[Capt. Charlie]

Me too, but I strongly suspect that Rich has his hands full right now with the aftermath of Wilma. Sounds like his neighborhood got hit pretty hard. Take your time Rich; home & family come first.

[Rich Lucibella]

OK, the Hunt.

H&H Hunter summed it up pretty well. If you hunt over feeders at known distances, your choice of caliber is pretty wide. We don't hunt that way, though we don't look down our nose at it.

Ours is a stalk hunt. We ride by truck and walk on foot, hoping to jump our quarry. Sometimes, if the wind and sun are perfect, and you spot a rooting herd at distance, you can sneak up close enough to have your way with the prettiest one. This is by far the exception, however. More commonly we get our shots at trotting or flat out running hogs.

Harley proved himself more than capable out to 40 yards with a Glock Model 17 Long Slide in pre-hunt sight in. I daresay, he might get the job done in a known distance, feeder situation. (Here in Florida there are game "ranches" where the hogs will come to the sound of a truck, knowing it's dinner time.....but that's not a hunt, it's a shoot.)

At any rate, Harley and Ashley spent Thursday scouting and hunting. I picked up Johnny Guest in Ft. Worth on Friday and we arrived in time for the evening hunt....no joy.

Come O-Dark-Thirty on Saturday, we woke to Wolgfgang Puck self heating espresso latte and home made Egg McMuffins. Here's Johnny in background and Harley in fore. The one with the orange trimmings is Miko the Moocher, who quickly learned that Johnny is truly a soft touch with the food destined for his own mouth.

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Then for the Safety Lecture:
Rule 1) Do Not Shoot The Dog
Rule 2) Do Not Shoot The Dog
Rule 3) Do Not Shoot at Any "Hogs" with Fluorescent Orange Collars

And out we went to the Ashley Hunt-Mobile, a vintage Army Jeep, converted for engine, suspension, Detroit Lockers and assorted accoutrement sought by juvenile delinquents world wide. Again, Harley on Left; Johnny on right. Ashley behind the wheel and Psycho Doggie in my seat (again).

Harley would be carrying the Glock 17L in a strong side paddle holster. In the vertical rack before Harley and Johnny are Johnny's 45-70 and 35 Whelen. Just over the roll bar, in horizontal rack would be my OctoBarrelled 1877 Cowboy Breakdown Trainer in 22 LR. In the vertical rack before Miko rests Death From Above, my Blaser .338 Winmag. In the horizontal rack on the windshield is my David Clay Custom Octobarreled 50 Alaskan Lever Gun. In a final horizontal rack between Doggie and Ashley lay the Claro Grade Kimber .22 bolt. There was no room left for Ashley's guns, so he resigned himself to a Hamilton Bowen 44 Mag (Ruger Blackhawk born) and Garret bone crushers in a custom Murray Leather crossdraw. If we were gonna fail, it would not be due to a lack of firepower!

_______________________________________

As the morning warmed up, Johnny and I traded spots, with me backing Harley up with the .338 Winmag. Early into the hunt, the whole plan came together...almost. Harley had demonstrated his ability to hit VERY well with the Glock. He was designated shooter. He was granted no access to long guns.

So, there you are, having decided to hunt feral hogs with your mouse gun. Great. Well, ummm, just what do you do when a gorgeous, 250 lb Trophy Boar steps out of the brush at 38 yards (lasered after the fact) and begins to trot from left to right across your position? If you say, "I'd let him go", you are either a member of PETA or you've never sighted on a running Trophy Boar with a mouse gun. Harley did what I would have done. He aimed and shot....three times. All four of us agree that the first shot was a hit and it sounded like bone. I believe the second was a hit also, as does Harley.

But the boar kept going; much to your collective surprise? I held off for the last seconds and thought I'd tagged him on the stern with the .338, but he never slowed down and there's no question that one was a miss. Miko bailed and took pursuit while we searched for blood and tracks. We came up empty as did the dog, sporting a look that said, "This isn't the way it happens in training."


Sooooo. Let's do some debrief.
- Was Harley "wrong" to take the shot? I don't think so.
- Is hunting Feral Hog in stalk conditions, with a defensive caliber handgun, pure folly? I think so.
- Can anyone on this board hit a cross-running hog in the ear or eye with a handgun? I suspect some will claim as much. Harley never attempted to claim such ability.
- Where'd that first 9mm pill come to rest? Sounded like bone to at least two of us. Could it be a perfect shoulder shot which a Boar that size would shrug off? How about a rib hit with gut damage....that probably wouldn't play out too well for the next five days until that hog died kinda horribly. He may be dying still. The jaw bone? I shudder to think of that result.

But forget about the hog for a minute. Ashley and I did some calculations of the number of equivalent Boars we've seen taken off the ranch in the past four years. By our rough calc's, we put the price of taking a trophy like that at right around $10K. No kidding. (I believe H&H Hunter will back me up on this....he hunts the same lease.)

_______________________________________

There were no further handgun opportunities after that one and Harley switched over to rifle. He left after the Monday morning hunt and Johnny, Ashley and I made one more foray that evening. Over the course of the weekend we hit and missed much, both inanimate and organic targets.

Miko had his first brush with a Porcupine and attempted to continue hunting with a face full of quills, tail wagging. He whimpered miserably as Ashley held him down and the rest of us pulled more than 50 of the barbed mini-spears from face, eye, nose, gums and roof-o-mouth. The porcupine got away and it's suspected that Doggie has not learned from that lesson. (BTW, Mad Dog informs me that Porc Quills are like skinny balloons, that swell with body heat. He suggests cutting the ends off before yanking.)

Three hogs were taken. One was killed on Sunday (Monday?) Morning by Miko Wattah, I'm almost proud to say. Proud because he took off after a herd and jumped the slowest one. Almost proud because the slowest one was a 12 lb piglet. It was put down with a .22 due to a bad case of broken neck.


_______________________________________

However, to this day, some in the party claim the neck breaking is attributable to Mr. Emerson who then threw the lifeless carcass to Miko to cover his own sick blood lust. Unless clear evidence surfaces, we'll never know for certain.


_______________________________________


Respectfully submitted.
Rich Lucibella

[Ultima-Ratio]

Richs pics ain't worth a bump what is? Thanks for a memorable story Rich!

[Joven]

Thanks Rich for offering up your lease and for the challenge. Thanks Harley for accepting the challenge and giving it a try. Thanks to Ashley, Johnny and Miko for participating. Glad everyone made it home safely.

Rich-Sorry to hear about your home, hope everything will be O.K.

Of all the things I would not put in my mouth...a hog has to be at the top of the list.:barf:

Thanks for the post.

In summary: A rifle is a rifle and a pistol is a pistol. Given the opportunity; use the long gun.

But...what about a taser? Harley? Rich? Want to give it another go?

Kidding...of course.

[Art Eatman]

Aside from porcupine quills (yeah, cut'em off before pulling) and the weather, a good time was had by all.

Matt, if I'm close enough to use a 9mm--i.e., all the way out to five yards or so--I imagine that it'll sound a lot like a mosheen gun, and most any bullet would do. But I tend to think in terms of a Ruger Redhawk, really...

Art

[Harley Quinn]

Hi All,

I first have to say thank you very much to Rich, Johnny and Ashley. I was feeding my face with one of the great Brownie's that Johnny brought.

The weather was good for the first few days, then we got rained on and woke up to a frozen morning, clear and very cold, as you can tell by the picture, we were dressed warm.

Ashley had advised me to shoot for the area behind the shoulder, (I was leading it and held on the neck/shoulder area on the first shot, moved forward and let fly into the neck area and the third was into ???)...

Miko was really getting broken in quick, had lots of scent to work from and sighted in on that piglet who was a little slow (the herd that it was with must have numbered 20 at least). Some big Sow's and littler Boars and the bunch of piglets were to numerous to count.

My days were confined to the 9mm as Rich has stated. I got a couple of good hits (Rich and I believe due to the sound of bullet hitting bone).
It was a big one and running pretty fast. (I thought it was further away at first) It stopped behind some brush, an open area (saw brown hide) and I got another round into it, I think?, then it took off and Rich let one fly and off we went in pursuit.

Miko took off and we were searching, I saw movement and swung over on it and it was Miko coming back and I yelled it is Miko. I had him in my sights and squeezing the 3 1/2 pound trigger, moved off of him quick.
I had a sick feeling (looked just like the hog, that red collar was a good thing, I am glad we had the early morning talk about not shooting the hog with the red collar).

I think the hog was big enough to absorb those puny rounds (+P+) and live to be found again. Ashley assures me he will get it later, (hope so)...

I am sure under the hunting conditions, the big guns, 45-70 etc. are the way to go, we discussed that a lot and all agree.

I had a great time and was really impressed with the quality and quantity of the pigs and the people who were hosting the hunt and feed.

I took this on a whim, with much reservation, I am glad I did go, I have good memories for the rest of my days...
Was I wrong in taking the shot?? If it was a deer I would not have done it. Are hogs to be given the same courtesy??

When I stopped by the visitor center later on Monday I was talking to the Lady who was there. She explained hogs are ruining the land, I hope you killed some? I said, yes we did.

We had steak and potato's and corn on the cob. Salmon steaks and rice/ beans. Hot coffee and good stories. Great time!!

I believe Ashley is one of the best hunters and guides and shots I have ever met. (that is saying quite a bit) Johnny is a real nice gentleman and has many stories and information long into the night. Great muffins and brownies from his wife.

Rich will do well with the disaster, he is ready for anything, talk about toys and survival gear, I am/was really impressed. The trip should have a second title of 'We got Guns and Gear'...The vehicle Ashley made up is remarkable. We went up an old washed out road, when he approached it I thought he was kidding up we went, AMAZING...

When I arrived on Thursday we met at the Texico station and went to camp.
Ashley had already killed hundreds of wasps that had infiltrated the Trailer and were with us all 5 days. Ashley and his Gerber tool with pliers and my craftsman tool with pliers did the trick (on the wasps and the quills in Miko's
nose and lips and roof of mouth).

Fly swatter had the biggest kill ratio, on the wasps. LOL

More later.

Harley

[Long Path]

Harley Q, ("harlequin"; I just got that...)

I have to ask, what influenced your choice in ammo? I would have thought that you would have brought some hot 147g stuff for better penetration, but I am given to understand that it was in fact +P+ Remington 115g ammo, is that correct?

[shortround60]

Gentlemen, I must say that after reading about the hunt, I felt like I was actually there. Great story telling and photos. Sorry about the damage to your home, but it seems you were well prepared. I am sorry to hear about the one that got away, but there is always the next trip. Thank you for sharing your expreinces.

The little round mound of sound.

[Capt. Charlie]

I got one hellofa kick out of the whole thing, beginning to end. It's this kind of thing that puts TFL out in front of the pack. One thing seems sure though, and that is that it was the gun, and not the hunter, that failed to bring home the bacon . Damned good shootin', thar, Harley! I do have a serious question though. Did the 9's inability to bring down the hog rattle your confidence in that round any, especially as a defensive round? And no, before the threads start flying, I'm not bashing the 9. I do know of a couple of guys in my business that changed calibers after hitting the bad guy and not achieving a stop. They lost faith in that round, and I'm wondering if that happens while hunting as well.

[Long Path]

Of all the things I would not put in my mouth...a hog has to be at the top of the list. :barf:

Just depends on how rare you like your pork! Funny thing is, when eating grilled beef tenderloin, Ashley takes his medium. Different strokes. . .

This thread has inspired me. I just stepped in from putting a (sadly storebought) pork tenderloin, suitably dressed with olive oil, fresh garlic, home-grown rosemary and kosher salt and freshground black pepper, over some hickory smoke. I expect to eat properly in a couple of hours.