trigger jobs - stupid question most likely

razorthief · October 6, 2008, 04:05 PM

I read a lot about how this rifle and that rifle are just SO much better with a "trigger job". What exactly does a trigger job do?

sourdough44 · October 6, 2008, 04:21 PM

For the most part it includes reducing the amount of force it takes to activate the trigger. Some production rifles can be way up to 6-8lbs+. I like the trigger pull to be in the 2.5-4lb area for most hunting rifles. Some triggers can be adjusted, some 'honed', & some better off replaced. For the average 60yrd shot at a deer it may not matter much but I just about can't stand a lawyer heavy trigger.

RedneckFur · October 6, 2008, 04:27 PM

A trigger job uasually makes the trigger pull lighter, and it makes the trigger "break" more crisp.

Some factory triggers feel like you're pulling back a spring, or feel gritty. A good trigger will break cleanly and the pull will be smooth.

Savage accutriggers are very nice, In my openion, as are Rifle basix. Some custom triggers are better, but they're much more expensive.

KChen986 · October 6, 2008, 04:52 PM

Some of you experienced folk correct me if i'm wrong.

The crisp trigger allows predictability for when the gun fires, thereby allowing more control of where the sights are when the round is discharged.

This is all personal experience for me of course, but where a mushy trigger is involved, there tends to be more jerking, and uncertainty when the firearm will go off, increasing flinch and reducing accuracy.

k in AR · October 6, 2008, 05:45 PM

A good trigger job will allow the trigger to break at the same pull everytime with little or no overtravel. The pull weight is an individual thing, mostly based on your preference and what the weapon is used for.

What does a good trigger job do? Takes one variable and makes it a constant.

Scorch · October 6, 2008, 05:53 PM

As a former gunsmith, I will say that all of the things mentioned are elements of a trigger job, but in general, a trigger job strives for:
* Smooth pull with no "gritty" feel (generally caused by two rough surfaces moving against each other.
* No "creep" (excessive movement before the trigger releases) or "overtravel" (trigger movement after the trigger releases).
* Safe, consistent trigger pull, generally lighter than the factory setting.
* Maintaining safe, proper operation of the factory safety mechanisms.

Trigger jobs involve disassembly of the firearm, examination of the critical parts, smoothing of all mating surfaces at precise angles, adjustment of trigger sears lever movement, re-fitting of safety assembly if applicable, and possibly replacing or modifying springs (although a lot of amateur gunsmiths try starting there then wonder how come things don't work right), then reassembling and testing the firearm. All that work may take 15 minutes, or it may take several hours, it depends on the firearm and its condition.

Many people who want a better trigger on their firearm find it easier to just buy an aftermarket trigger and install it, which generally works well, but the adjustments are still very important.

sc928porsche · October 6, 2008, 06:39 PM

+1 Scorch

**44 AMP** · October 7, 2008, 01:37 AM

And when you are paying him for a trigger job, you are not only paying for his time and labor, but also for his expertise. A five thumbed ape can disassemble a gun and stone the sear, but doing it right, doing it just enough, and no more, keeping the needed angles correct, and a dozen other small things that go into a good trigger job are the province of a trained and competent professional.

One that can not nly do the work, but whose end product is not only an improvement, but is also safe, and (as much as the parts quality and design allow), durable.

The usual language used to describe a fine trigger job is "breaks like a glass rod", meaning that there is no detectable movement (after initial take up, if so equipped), no change to the feel of the trigger as pressure is increased, until the sear is relased ("breaks") and there is no excess movement of the trigger after the break (overtravel). The intent is to minimize movement of the rifle due to pulling the trigger, and while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. Most teach that the shot should be a slight surprise when it goes off, if you are properly concentrating on the sights and target. A long, gritty, creepy trigger pull and excessive overtravel will tend to subconciously focus part of your attention on the trigger as you pull it, waiting for it to go off,m detracting from your ability to aim.

Picher · October 7, 2008, 04:50 AM

Also a former gunsmith/pistolsmith, I specialized in trigger work.

Trigger surfaces and metals/metal treatments vary considerably. Most good trigger mechanisms use hardened parts that resist wear and friction. Honing too much can cut through shallow case hardening resulting in less uniform and fast-wearing trigger systems.

Some triggers can be re-hardened by using Casenit, a case-hardening product available from Brownells gunsmith supply.

Stainless steel trigger systems, like the ones on S&W stainless handguns, are plated with hard chrome to reduce wear. Such triggers should not be honed because once the plating is removed, the triggers become mushy, unpredictable, and wear quickly. The single action notch on S&W revolvers is very shallow and shouldn't be touched, except by a very experienced pistolsmith.

Having a good paying engineering, I've retired from part-time gunsmithing due to liability insurance cost, but still like to tune friends' guns (without compensation.)

Picher

October 6, 2008, 04:05 PM	#1
razorthief Junior Member Join Date: March 3, 2008 Posts: 14	trigger jobs - stupid question most likely I read a lot about how this rifle and that rifle are just SO much better with a "trigger job". What exactly does a trigger job do?

October 6, 2008, 05:53 PM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	As a former gunsmith, I will say that all of the things mentioned are elements of a trigger job, but in general, a trigger job strives for: * Smooth pull with no "gritty" feel (generally caused by two rough surfaces moving against each other. * No "creep" (excessive movement before the trigger releases) or "overtravel" (trigger movement after the trigger releases). * Safe, consistent trigger pull, generally lighter than the factory setting. * Maintaining safe, proper operation of the factory safety mechanisms. Trigger jobs involve disassembly of the firearm, examination of the critical parts, smoothing of all mating surfaces at precise angles, adjustment of trigger sears lever movement, re-fitting of safety assembly if applicable, and possibly replacing or modifying springs (although a lot of amateur gunsmiths try starting there then wonder how come things don't work right), then reassembling and testing the firearm. All that work may take 15 minutes, or it may take several hours, it depends on the firearm and its condition. Many people who want a better trigger on their firearm find it easier to just buy an aftermarket trigger and install it, which generally works well, but the adjustments are still very important. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 7, 2008, 01:37 AM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,897	Remember that a qualified gunsmith is a professional And when you are paying him for a trigger job, you are not only paying for his time and labor, but also for his expertise. A five thumbed ape can disassemble a gun and stone the sear, but doing it right, doing it just enough, and no more, keeping the needed angles correct, and a dozen other small things that go into a good trigger job are the province of a trained and competent professional. One that can not nly do the work, but whose end product is not only an improvement, but is also safe, and (as much as the parts quality and design allow), durable. The usual language used to describe a fine trigger job is "breaks like a glass rod", meaning that there is no detectable movement (after initial take up, if so equipped), no change to the feel of the trigger as pressure is increased, until the sear is relased ("breaks") and there is no excess movement of the trigger after the break (overtravel). The intent is to minimize movement of the rifle due to pulling the trigger, and while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. Most teach that the shot should be a slight surprise when it goes off, if you are properly concentrating on the sights and target. A long, gritty, creepy trigger pull and excessive overtravel will tend to subconciously focus part of your attention on the trigger as you pull it, waiting for it to go off,m detracting from your ability to aim. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 6, 2008, 04:21 PM	#2
sourdough44 Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: WI Posts: 621	For the most part it includes reducing the amount of force it takes to activate the trigger. Some production rifles can be way up to 6-8lbs+. I like the trigger pull to be in the 2.5-4lb area for most hunting rifles. Some triggers can be adjusted, some 'honed', & some better off replaced. For the average 60yrd shot at a deer it may not matter much but I just about can't stand a lawyer heavy trigger.

October 6, 2008, 04:27 PM	#3
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	A trigger job uasually makes the trigger pull lighter, and it makes the trigger "break" more crisp. Some factory triggers feel like you're pulling back a spring, or feel gritty. A good trigger will break cleanly and the pull will be smooth. Savage accutriggers are very nice, In my openion, as are Rifle basix. Some custom triggers are better, but they're much more expensive.

October 6, 2008, 04:52 PM	#4
KChen986 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Location: Ninja Mall Posts: 818	Some of you experienced folk correct me if i'm wrong. The crisp trigger allows predictability for when the gun fires, thereby allowing more control of where the sights are when the round is discharged. This is all personal experience for me of course, but where a mushy trigger is involved, there tends to be more jerking, and uncertainty when the firearm will go off, increasing flinch and reducing accuracy.

October 6, 2008, 05:45 PM	#5
k in AR Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: Arkansas USA Posts: 436	A good trigger job will allow the trigger to break at the same pull everytime with little or no overtravel. The pull weight is an individual thing, mostly based on your preference and what the weapon is used for. What does a good trigger job do? Takes one variable and makes it a constant.

October 6, 2008, 06:39 PM	#7
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	+1 Scorch

October 7, 2008, 04:50 AM	#9
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,696	Also a former gunsmith/pistolsmith, I specialized in trigger work. Trigger surfaces and metals/metal treatments vary considerably. Most good trigger mechanisms use hardened parts that resist wear and friction. Honing too much can cut through shallow case hardening resulting in less uniform and fast-wearing trigger systems. Some triggers can be re-hardened by using Casenit, a case-hardening product available from Brownells gunsmith supply. Stainless steel trigger systems, like the ones on S&W stainless handguns, are plated with hard chrome to reduce wear. Such triggers should not be honed because once the plating is removed, the triggers become mushy, unpredictable, and wear quickly. The single action notch on S&W revolvers is very shallow and shouldn't be touched, except by a very experienced pistolsmith. Having a good paying engineering, I've retired from part-time gunsmithing due to liability insurance cost, but still like to tune friends' guns (without compensation.) Picher