American Image Overseas

[ICBentley]

In a previous thread:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=75098

Balddog wrote:

"American 'gun culture' is held up as the ultimate evil system in both Australia and here in the UK. The people have been brainwashed by the press into thinking that there can be nothing worse than an armed populace. "

Thanks to Balddog for confirming what I was beginning to suspect. The International Association of Liars and Tyrants have built a fantasy image of a wild west style armed America and that image is so strong in the minds of British, Australians and who knows how many others that just the threat of becoming like us can be used as a straw dog to frighten the populace into stampeeding into slavery.

Goebbels would be proud!

Not sure how to take it though. On the one hand the need for education is great enough here in the US that the task of preserving freedom seems almost impossible. Still part of me wishes to save these poor misled folks from the consequences of their ignorance.

Another part of me wants to make things worse. "Yes! Be afraid of us. Be very afraid. Our kids are meaner than your SAS, better armed too! And that's just the way we like it."

I think my better nature should prevail, but something deep in me just wants to moon 'em.

What about you?

Bentley

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid,
Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.
"Good", said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron, Cold Iron, is the master of them all!"
-- Rudyard Kipling

[C.R.Sam]

Don't mess with the Swiss, for they are armed, all of them.

Don't mess with the Israilis, for they are armed, all of them.

Don't mess with the Americans, for they are armed, all of them.

What's the problem ?

Sam

[Jody Hudson]

Personally, I like the international reputation of armed and dangerous.

Years ago, when lots of Russians were fleeing the USSR, and becoming taxi drivers in NYC, I asked a lot of them about the differences between perceptions of before and after they arrived. In summation they derived knowledge from a heavy diet of 5 to 10 American movies a WEEK.

They were of the opinion that we were like John Wayne, Arnold Swartzenager, and Bronson... that is, piss us off and we'd just take our gun and hunt you down and kill you. Not only that, but that every single American was armed to the teeth.

Once they got here the consensus was that we were the most wimpish and manipulated populace anywhere. At least, one Russian told me, they know the government and the press are nothing but lies in Russia. In America, the people believe the press and the government.

He said he was scared of all the guns before he came and scared of the stupidity once he arrived. He said he had moved out of NYC and worked three days, 12 hours a day, so that he could live in rural New York state. Out there he said the truck stops and gun shops were the only places men seemed to understand truth and lies of the press.

[Kaylee]

I have a friend here who is..well.. very European. Which is odd, given that she was born and rasied in Idaho, but her outlook is undeniably that of the "Civilized European" lookin' down on the redneck barbarity that is rural America. She's trying to get over there as soon as she can. To that all I can say is -- great.. you won't be voting here anymore.

I suppose the point of this is -- I don't give a flying fig what Europe thinks of us. I'm sick of hearing how "America is the only nation to.." or "Americans are the only holdup to..."

America was born in a war of Rebellion. America grew across a vast frontier. No other country has that unique heritage, and very few people can even comprehend the mindset that heritage fosters. Sadly, fewer than ever before here.

In short -- don't worry about what the rest of the world thinks about us. Worry about what WE think of us. Personally, I think as the population rises and life gets cushier, the old American ideals will fall by the wayside. I see two ways that won't happen:

1 -- WWIII is the old US vs the EU, the US wins, and the survivors remember how we got here in the first place. Personally, that's not the option I'd prefer. Makes for pretty exciting fiction, gets everybody's blood flowing, but it sure makes for lousy living.

2 -- We find another frontier, and those of us who still remember what the pioneer American spirit is go there, and let the present US continue down the course the majority seem to want.. more-or-less Democratic Socialism.

On the other hand, Americans are the quintissential rebels, even today. Heck, even the Greens and Socialists see themselves as the hearty individualists standing up for the little guy.

So.. maybe there's still a spark of the old America in 'em that's alive..

... I pray.

[ICBentley]

Ah, Kaylee, you're singing my song!

New frontier indeed. Let's do go to the stars and live forever in freedom running in front of the wave of cities with populations over one million (a la Heinlein).

For now, I am looking for a reason to act civilized toward our European brothers. I am failing.

Bentley

[Dennis]

Random thoughts:
------

August, 1961. The East Germans put up the Berlin Wall in violation of the Four Power Agreements of WWII. The Russians obviously initiated (or at least approved of) The Wall but they stayed out of the way until they determined that the U.S., British and French did not have the resolve to stop the construction of this illegal abomination.

Our lack of resolve encouraged Khrushchev to be bolder during the Cuban Missile Crisis. When JFK finally remembered that he was an American and responded like one, Khrushchev backed down. (Unfortunately JFK also made some needless and stupid concessions.)

It was our earlier weakness which caused Khrushchev to miscalculate our resolve. That brought us closer to Mutually Assured Destruction than the general population will ever realize.
-----

If an adversary believes you are strong but weak-willed, he considers you weak. Only those who are perceived to be both willing and able to use overwhelming force are not challenged. Remove the ability or the will and you will be conquered.
-----

In 1960, Berliners considered Americans to be their honorable and strong defenders against the Russian Bear. After The Wall went up (and many people died in public because of The Wall and our weakness) most Berliners considered us shameful, boasting, frightened cowards.

The same is happening today.

Europeans scorn America and Americans because we've earned it.

America continues to involve our military where it doesn't belong -- where we have no overwhelming American interests. Then we subordinate our military to other countries and/or restrain our military to ensure our defeat and humiliation. Americans then die where they should not have been, doing what they should not have been doing, and doing it from a position of weakness.

Our war against Iraq stands in contrast to our involvement in Vietnam, Africa and the Balkans. The difference is neither ability nor strength - the difference is resolve.

Even at home, right here in America, by permitting our government to circumvent and ignore our Constitution we have spit upon our proud legacy. We mock both the term and the concept of "The American Way." Government elitism and the inaction of American citizens have proven we give only lip service to the Freedoms, Liberty and responsibilities that once made America great.

We have earned the scorn both of Europeans and the rest of the world for, as you can see, we have become both weaklings and hypocrites, ruled by a self-serving and immoral government which we continue to blindly support because we are afraid to recognize how far we've fallen, what we've become, and where we are headed.

[Balddog]

Well unfortunately we live in an area of socialist governments over here. They have their agenda and they stick to it, their way or no way. You can't blame people for being brainwashed by the media, its happening all over the world these days. You guys have a healthy population of Sheeple in the states, we just happen to have a few more Im sure that if the press stopped demonising the states and just putting out the facts without bias then people here would start to realise the Americans have got the right idea. Our press has gone far beyond the normal pro-governement bias, they have now reached the point where they are telling blatant lies in print every day..

Whenever the issue of guns and gun legislation comes up here, the discussion inevitably ends in the anti-gun crowd saying "Do you want us to turn out like America??" That usually ends the discussions because people have been so brainwashed as to automatically associate guns with all the murders in places like LA and DC...The facts dont matter anymore, its just word association..Guns = Bad.

Kaylee is right, You shouldnt worry about what Europe thinks of the US. You should worry about turning into something like the European model..Avoid it like the plaque.

There will never be a war between the EU and US, the EU will break down and fight amongst itself soon enough. The greatest threat to America and the American way of life comes from within. Far more insidious a threat than a war.

[Jody Hudson]

Dennis,

Terse, True and To the point. Well written, well stated, well thought out.

Thanks,

Jody

[ICBentley]

Dennis: Entirely too true.

Balddog: I do hope you know I meant no offense to you or yours. Your comments are well taken.

The comments of both of you taken together paint a picture of America and Europe which I wish were not so accurate. America does seem to consist of a large minority with some sense and a love of freedom, another large minority either duped by syrupy promises of utopia or bought off by socialist programs promoted by a statist cabal of elite leaders and bureaucrats.

In Europe, it appears from here, the size of the first group is much smaller.

I guess the best bet is to clean up our own act by defeating the socialist elite. Then we can try to educate by example, if Europe can see us.

Bentley

[Rottweiler]

Europeans aren'e the onlyones who have that view of us gun toting Americans. Shortly after Pearl Harbor, someone in Japan,I believe the Emperor, wanted to invade the U.S. Someone else in the upper command of Japan , I believe Tojo or Yamamoto, advised against it saying "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" I like to think he was and still is right. Many Japanese still hold that opinion.

[Elizabeth Petersen]

*Hmph*

Hypocrites.

*sigh*

Funny how our European allies never seem too concerned with America being "armed to the teeth" when we're hauling their butts out of the fire or playing a blue-helmeted version of Hall Moniter in their playground.

[USGuns]

Balddog, your sentence "The greatest threat to America and the American way of life comes from within" reminds me of a story that my father has been telling me since I can remember. When he got out of the US Army he went to college on the GI bill and had a history professor that told his class that the greatest threat to America wasn't from the Soviet Union but from within...

That was 1948.

[Balddog]

Well If theres ever another war in Europe, I personally hope that America stays out..Thats not me being ungrateful. I just believe that things cannot possibly get any worse over here with regard to personal liberty and rights.

ICBentley, No offense taken at all....I try to insult my European brethren as often as possible anyway

USGuns, Your dad sounds like he has the right idea..Lets face it, America is not going to be invaded by a hostile enemy anytime soon. The Chinese are not gonna come screaming through Texas via Mexico..The US is the single most powerful nation the earth has ever seen. BUT Morality is breaking down in America, as elsewhere, and the liberal elite is gaining more and more power....Guns are the first things to go, then your freedoms.

American boys are being sent to fight and die in god forsaken areas of the globe. You, the American tax payer is being forced to finance these foreign wars with increasingly high taxes...I seem to remember a similar situation that developed some 225 years ago.

[HankB]

Europe doesn't like our image? Which part of Europe would that be - the part whose a$$ we kicked, or the part whose a$$ we saved?

To see what REAL people think, you need to take a look at immigration/emigration patterns. Given a choice, many people will "vote with their feet" and move where they feel they'd be better off. I'll wager there are more people moving FROM Europe TO the USA than the other way around.

Why? Simply because thinking, industrious, productive people who love liberty have realized that the European model is more like a warning of what's to be avoided rather than an example to emulate.

And dittos to those who have identified the biggest danger to America as coming from within...

[neal bloom]

You have my vote to moon em. Sure do get tired of Eurotrash badmouthing American culture. What makes them so special? I personally have no interest in travelling to Europe, I think we are much more civilized than them. Better food too.

[Oatka]

I'm with those who just shrug at the European/Asian/anybody else crowd who badmouths the U.S.

Most of it is from envy, although the "Wild West" conception is 90% Hollywood/TV and 10% US media, IMO.

I put the stress on Hollywood/TV because it is an extremely powerful image-maker. When I was overseas with the oil company, as soon as I said I was from California, peoples' eyes would shine and they'd murmur "Cal-i-for-nia" as if it were Goldconda (probably was to most). Then it was either of two questions: "Where's your six-shooter?" (said with a smile) or "Is it true that [fill in the blanks]". Invariably, it was some Hollywood stereotype they believed in and I had to let them down gently. Some still wouldn't believe me.

In Kuwait they banned the "Six Million Dollar Man" because kids were stepping out in front of those BIG Mercedes trucks, arms akimbo, expecting to stop them.

And so it goes.

While we found out it didn't pay to be isolationist, I still get p!$$ed when the Europeans sucker us into pulling their chestnuts out of the fire.

IMHO, if the U.S. ever goes under, the world would go through a a Dark Age that would make the old one look like a cakewalk.