44 Special vs. 357 Magnum

[Pumpkin]

Still,
Far from a Bulldog!
Buffalo Bore doesn’t even recommend some of their loads for the Bulldog.
It’s in a different class of revolver than a Ruger or an L or N frame Smith.
That’s my point.

[The Verminator]

You never had a point.

[Pumpkin]

The OP has a GP100 and a BH 44spl.
All this stuff about frame sizes and semiauto or not are irrelevant.
Have a nice day.

[44caliberkid]

I started with the 44 Special in 1975 when I bought a Charter Bulldog. I also started reloading then, making 44 and 357 rounds on my desk, in my cubicle, in the barracks. Wanted a 44 Special and 44 Magnum because I read Skeeter and Elmer. The Bulldog was all I could find at the time. My first handloads of 7.8 - 8.0 grains of Unique with a 180 grain JHP. I think the max load was 7.5. I split the cylinder open, right down the thin side of the chamber. I sent it back to Charter and they replaced it, also threw in a set of, then new, rubber grips.
So definitely don’t max load a Charter Bulldog. But a Ruger Blackhawk, 240 grains at 1000 fps is fine. I would be willing to take the same chance with a Pietta or Uberti 1873 in 44 Special also. Or 3rd generation Colt SAA.

[TruthTellers]

I never understood the modern love affair with the Charter Bulldog .44. Back in the 70s I could understand because 20-25oz .357's were not a thing and I'd rather have a .44 than a .38 in the same size revolver, but the Bulldog today is simply a weakly made revolver that doesn't hold up to frequent range trips. Sure, Charter will fix them when they've been shot loose, but I'd rather have a .45 in like the Taurus Public Defender.

[The Verminator]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I never understood the modern love affair with the Charter Bulldog .44. Back in the 70s I could understand because 20-25oz .357's were not a thing...

Well, the fact is that light .357s WERE a thing in the 70s.........Charter came out with the Target Bulldog in .357 in 1976.

(Being a very old guy with a little bit of working memory remaining--I remember these things.)

Not a bad little pistol, but it sure did kick like a mule at 20 and a half ounces (yes, I had one--for a short while).

Light guns are popular.......often it's just that people carry a lot and don't shoot much so they don't realize there's a problem.

I've never been an advocate for the extremely light guns in .44 Special.........they're really not practical. Smith and Wesson made the Model 296 in .44 Special at 19 ounces........they ended that in two years or so.

There were, however, satisfied customers of the Charter Bulldog .44 Special.

The serial killer David Berkowitz was one. He killed six and wounded several others over a period of about a year in New York back in the 70s. He flat terrorized that city with his .44.

Probably not a good reference since he was insane.

Anyway, there are some good steel frame .44 Specials available that are a bit lighter and less combersome than the larger N-Frame magnum versions and the 696 that Hickock45 loves so much is one of them. The Ruger is also nice and old Hitch has also reported favorably on that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-GdiGxAcWI

[Drm50]

357 is marginal deer cartridge , 44 special will be the better choice. This ain’t from the tables put together by the “experts”, this is from years of pulling the trigger on meat. Big slugs tooling along at 800 to 1000 fps do a nice job on deer and hogs.

[44 AMP]

I am also a fan of big bullets, but I disagree with the .357 being "marginal". IF the .357 is "marginal", it is because the shooter is, not the cartridge.

[Pumpkin]

Or they make the wrong choice of bullet wt. and construction.

[The Verminator]

Originally Posted by Drm50

357 is marginal deer cartridge , 44 special will be the better choice. This ain’t from the tables put together by the “experts”, this is from years of pulling the trigger on meat. Big slugs tooling along at 800 to 1000 fps do a nice job on deer and hogs.

The OP didn't mention hunting deer, but since you mention it........

BOTH the .357 and the .44 can be and are considered by some to be marginal deer hunting rounds.

It depends on a lot of things........type of hunting, size of deer in that area, distance and likely shots that may be taken and ability of hunter (in shooting and choice of best ammo).

This sort of assumes (maybe too optimistically) some wisdom on the part of the hunter. We now have a lot of inexperienced people running amok in the deer woods.

It's ok if you're an expert and choose your shot and distance as an expert.

In my state the .30 Carbine round in a rifle was illegal for many years due to its lack of power.

In a rifle and with a proper bullet, that round is quite comparable to the .357 Magnum in killing power.

Things have gotten a lot looser in recent years. I think the DNR is desperate to keep numbers of hunters up and license revenue coming in.

[Pumpkin]

And unfortunately, how many new hunters today didn’t have the benefit and experience of learning how to hunt from their dad.

[rodfac]

Ligonierbill: "I'm not much of a pistoleer, but sometimes I carry a general purpose revolver in the woods."

For general woods walks, either is good...but depends on what you want to shoot....thistle tops and toadstools, dirt clods, defense against predators of two or four legged type, or maybe large game like deer.

I'm a long time fan of the .44 Spl, but will readily agree that to be versatile whatsoever, you must handload. Your choice of at 5.5" Ruger Flat Top is a good one. It's very strong, but not to full-house .44 Magnum levels. Light to medium level loads with 240 gr LSWC's that approach 1000 fps perform well with non-punishing recoil.

The classic is perhaps Skelton's favorite 7.5 grains of Unique for just under 1000 fps. Another good choice is Hornady's excellent .44 cal. 200 gr. XTP. This can be pushed to over 1100 easily with a variety of powders and makes for an excellent defensive round with superb accuracy. Again, handloading is necessary to make the .44 Spl. useful. It's my favorite in a 6.5" Smith M-24, and a tio of Ruger Flat Tops in both 4-5/8" & 5-1/2" bbl. lengths. Both of the bullets listed above will give me sub-2" groups at 25 yds from a rest in any of the four listed.

The .357 Magnum is also a great choice as it offers versatility right out of the box...anything from .38 Special wadcutters to full house magnums...and do it without resorting to handloading. In that sense, it makes more sense as an all around woods carry piece.

In my own use, I find that as I've aged into my late 70's, arthritis has made it a far better choice with it's lighter recoil using target loads. Accuracy is equal to the .44 Spl. and I handload for both so ammunition costs are about equal. I also cast my own LSWC & WC bullets making either caliber cheaper to shoot than a .22 LR at current market prices. Three cent primers, two cent powder charges and bullet molds purchased well before the turn of the century allow substantial savings.

Given one choice, and discounting my age and foregoing handloading, I'd pick a .357 of the DA revolver persuasion. HTH's Rod Here's one of my .44's and a seldom seen 5" bbl'd Smith M-60 with a holster I made up for my #1 son's Christmas several years ago. It's a hellofa carry piece for woods loafers with great accuracy and light weight.

[Drm50]

I can take deer with a good 22 pistol, if I wanted to wait on a shot of both distance and angle that would make reasonable kill shot. That don’t make it a deer gun. There are two kinds of deer guns. The deer hunting gun which is capable of making a humane kill on a deer which may be at random ranges in random cover. The other is a killing gun. Doesn’t make a lot of difference what it is. Deer is killed from stand while stationary , presenting
the optimum shot. The only variable being the shooters skill.
One of the old gun scribes made the statement to use a gun big enough to get the job done if conditions don’t turn out to be perfect.

[wild cat mccane]

Honest question.

What is the bullet people are using that makes either 44 or 357 different performers?

If it's all XTP, okay. But FMJ is FMJ. It doesn't deform and drag equalizes all the handgun loads pretty much equally.

[Pumpkin]

A 32-35 FMJ leaves the same wound channel as a 44-45?
What if in the case of a 40 it has a flat point on it?

[The Verminator]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

Honest question.

What is the bullet people are using that makes either 44 or 357 different performers?

If it's all XTP, okay. But FMJ is FMJ. It doesn't deform and drag equalizes all the handgun loads pretty much equally.

All FMJ is not equal.

Bigger FMJ does more damage than smaller.

Faster FMJ does more damage than slower.

FMJ that hits bone does more damage than FMJ that does not and larger, of course, will cause profoundly more destruction than smaller--same with faster vs. slower.

Same with hitting organs and variations of tissue.

When a bullet hits there are many variations and possibilities in damage that ensues.

Animals are not made of ballistic gel.......they are hair, fur, hide, skin, fat, flesh, sinew, muscle, cartilage, tendon, ligament, water, blood and bone.

[rclark]

Use the bullet and caliber that makes you 'feel' better and that will work for intended use. The human race has been using lead ever since the gun was invented. Seemed to get the job done down through the centuries. Animals haven't changed body armor that I know off . There are a 'lot' of references out there of those with experience that did that/been there to draw conclusions from. Whatever you use, hitting the target and placement is the most important thing. A 1000gr heavy Uranium bullet wouldn't help you much if you miss....

[44 AMP]

The human race has been using lead ever since the gun was invented.

Long before that, actually. Look up "sling bullets".

[The Verminator]

Originally Posted by rodfac

Ligonierbill: Here's one of my .44's and a seldom seen 5" bbl'd Smith M-60 with a holster I made up for my #1 son's Christmas several years ago. It's a hellofa carry piece for woods loafers with great accuracy and light weight.

I DO like that Model 60!!!!

[radom]

Sweet Model 60 cheifs target there. I have one in 3 inch as a carry gun.

[NWPilgrim]

Either revolver is a solid choice. If you were limited to factory ammo I would say .357. But you being a reloader the .44 Special is incredibly versatile with less muzzle blast. A modern SA ought to handle 1000fps loads which would be very effective. Choose a bullet according to the worst anticipated threat.

As was mentioned earlier, which revolver you shoot best and fastest is another factor to consider. Can’t go wrong with either option you have!

[rclark]

A modern SA ought to handle 1000fps loads which would be very effective.

Not 'ought'. It does!