Obtaining an alien firearms license - WA State - Page 2

allserene · May 20, 2008, 11:18 PM

my ethnicity is non - American, a foreigner, an alien, although Americans with a British lineage should know that unless their forebears came over on the Mayflower (It was a pretty small boat), then their ancestors were much more likely to have been related to, or even part of the British forces trying to quell the rebellion of 1776.

I am sensitive, aren't you ? It's better than being insensitive. I hope your dentist is sensitive. Insensitive people with guns isn't a good thing is it ? The SS had a lot of those.

We Europeans have experience of political systems that send some to the left and some to the right. Humans and sub-humans. Some are inside the fence and the others can burn. That is why we don't have this 'alien without rights' concept in Europe and why it is so strange to be identified as 'alien' and treated differently.

If Americans mixed better with ' aliens ' they would have a wider and more enjoyable experience.. I just opened a bank account (I am allowed to do that) and I was asked where I learned English. When I said 'England' I was asked if they spoke English there.

Come on America and realise that foreigners are just like you and should not be restricted and put 'under the thumb' and bullied and deprived like a new boy at school.

What if the hundreds of countries who have American bases, invalidated driving licenses for American service personnel there until America started treating 'aliens' equally in the USA ?

They wouldn't of course because it's not their way

I have lived in Wisconsin and Florida and now Washington Stae so luckily I know that America has tens of millions of decent, reasonable, deep-thinking , educated, sensitive friendly people - so coming across a few grumpy 'anti-foreigners' isnt going to send me home defeated - nothing will actually.

I think every gun owner in the US should have a gun license which can be withdrawn if their personality is inconsistent with gun ownership. Hatred of foreigners would be an indicator for a start.

Isn't that what Mohammed Atta had ?

LostOne · May 20, 2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

I think every gun owner in the US should have a gun license which can be withdrawn if their personality is inconsistent with gun ownership. Hatred of foreigners would be an indicator for a start.

lmao, you sound like you came from Europe.

allserene · May 20, 2008, 11:47 PM

Most Americans came from Europe originally - that's why I can't figure the antagonism against newcomers.

I joined this post because I expected that shooters would want to help each other to keep their guns and expand their shooting interest.

I am sure that's the case actually

The more people who can be allowed to take up the hobby, the more people can defend against unreasonable gun laws

Shooters who want to disarm anyone who wasn't born in the USA (immigrant aliens like Bob Hope and Charlie Chaplin and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Julie Andrews) are doing the shooting interests no favors in the long run

Only people like O J Simpson will be allowed to have guns - an American Citizen so he must be ok

LostOne · May 20, 2008, 11:50 PM

If you aren't a US citizen you have no right to be demanding anything, just my personal view.

allserene · May 21, 2008, 12:11 AM

I understand that there is a strong thread in American culture that sees U.S. Citizens as being better than other people and 'aliens' should have lesser rights while they are in the USA

It is unique in the developed world and luckily other Western Nations do not retaliate against U.S. Citizens who live there by making them 'lesser'

It is something I will work to change when I am a U.S. Citizen but perhaps someone already did it :

The 14th amendment says it best

"no state shall… deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

How far have we come from that to 'You foreigners can get out if you don't like discrimatory laws'

oh America what happened in between times and when will 'all men created equal' actually mean something again ?

You American shooters go to every corner of the globe to shoot lions and bears etc etc and you expect every country to allow you to posssess a gun there - why should foreigners not be allowed here ?

Of course if you don't believe in fairness, then the question answers itself

LostOne · May 21, 2008, 12:20 AM

If you want gun rights become a legal US citizen.

allserene · May 21, 2008, 12:55 AM

I am totally legal in the USA and I have been checked out in depth and approved by the CIA and the FBI which is more than many crack head glock toting Americans Citizens have - and I will pay more tax to the U.S. Treasury in the next few years than many Americans pay in their life times. I am not allowed to become a citizen until 2.5 years have passed or I would

Until then I will be one less voice in the gun lobby simply because of the place where I was born all those years ago

When your guns are gradually taken from you, you will regret turning potential allies away just because they dont drive pickup trucks and were born somewhere else

LostOne · May 21, 2008, 01:03 AM

Sorry but the green card deal isn't good enough.

We have a huge problem with Illegal aliens in this country, even the ones with green cards aren't checked out in any depth, so if you want to blame somone - blame Mexico.

I know for a fact I don't want people to be able buy a gun just becuase they have Green Card, show your allegiance to this country and become a US citizen - afterwards you will be able to buy as many guns as you want.

So you just need to wait 2.5 years.

-edit

Quote:

I am totally legal in the USA and I have been checked out in depth and approved by the CIA and the FBI which is more than many crack head glock toting Americans Citizens have

Sounds like you really need to leave this country if you think its filled with "glock toting crack heads"

erlkonig · May 21, 2008, 04:12 AM

Allserene man,

You cannot contend with 'birthright'; you might contribute much much more than the average Joe, but due process matters.

You are irked because you demand a certain 'fairness' from the system (eg. why can't a law-abiding tax-paying PR holder get a gun while ... blah blah ). It's not fair. It isn't fair that some smart IT kid from some so-called developing country is making a blast in Joe's land, milking it and rubbing it in Joe's face by living it up and driving a Porsche.

You sound like you are doing well~ Your time outside the US of A must have somehow contributed to your above-average success here; it's not fair.

Let's suck it up and wait till next year.

copenhagen · May 21, 2008, 09:20 AM

Allserene buddy, you come off like you have an attitude problem or something, at least the way I took it. Beyond that, here's the thing, I do believe you have the right to keep/carry/purchase arms in America. It is you unalienable right.

talonap · May 21, 2008, 09:56 AM

I am from the planet Garignac. How may I obtain one of these papers so that I may use my Destructo Laser legally?

Klatu

zbordas · May 21, 2008, 10:09 AM

Allserene, I fully feel for you. The great state of Texas makes no difference between US citizens and legal permanent residents as far as firearm and carry laws.
For those who made "Sorry Buddy..." kind of comments: the worst strategy for us; gun owners. Most immigrants gaining resident status to the US are anti-gun and gun supporters are a shrinking group. I know lot of people living, working having families in the US for 10-15 years before deciding to give up their born citizenship (Swedish, Italian, German, Hungarian, Austian etc.) and become a US citizen. If you alienate the few that would support gun rights now they will probably vote against it once they gain citizenship.

1. I think you should contact the NRA and/or the state association and get their help to close this loophole. It also means that a green card holder with a CCW permit Washington State honors can get arrested and prosecuted.

2. Move to Texas. The weather is great here and jobs are well paying for professionals working in the oil industry.

zbordas · May 21, 2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

It isn't fair that some smart IT kid from some so-called developing country is making a blast in Joe's land, milking it and rubbing it in Joe's face by living it up and driving a Porsche.

England and the EU is hardly "developing" and obviously you know pretty much nothing about it.

The US immigration laws make it possible to hire enough professionals in the Oil and Gas Industry in Houston and generate income for most of the population here. Houston sucks up a good portion of the professionals from the EU also while contries like Norway, England, France are strugling finding enough to fill all positions. Less professionals hired means less tax, less jobs and income in the local economy.

Do you really think an AC service man could make $80 an hour in TX if there was no oil industry?

allserene · May 21, 2008, 10:58 AM

Well first of all I am not an IT kid with Porsche - I am a 60 year old retired guy who got his money from decades of hard work including unloading coal trucks with a shovel, being an inner city policeman and the Finance Director of an American Company in Europe. I have 3 grandchildren including a 16 year old grandson. My wife is from Wisconsin and she has struggled 10 hours per day, 7 days a week for 6 months to get a job after we returned from England and this job in Washington State job is the only one she could get. So I can't just move to Texas or the more free and equal States

Saying there are a lot of forged green cards so mine can't be accepted is the same as saying my green card can't be accepted for getting a driver's license and I should not be allowed to drive for 2.5 years.

This forged green card stuff is just an excuse for employers who deliberately hire illegals - the Washington Licensing people and immigration can sure tell which cards are genuine.

People like me who went through hell for years to get their genuine green card are VERY anti illegals

Also, I am not asking for a change in the law to suit me - Washington State actually passed this 'alien firearms license' legislation to ALLOW aliens to have guns - the 'will of the people ' is being frustrated by this adminstrative glitch and it's that I am complaining about and not the existing law. I am complaining about an existing American law not being implemented because of admin problems.

I want this already existing American law to be allowed to operate

I don't have an 'attitude' - I am safe and experienced with guns and I was a committee member of a gun club for 14 years. My first gun was a 12 bore 3 inch magnum that I bought when I was 13 and I hunted alone with that. It was legal then in England

Anyone who posts on this forum is a shooter. I am shocked that shooters don't encourage safe , respectable, legally resident shooters who live permanently in their area, simply because of a hatred of foreigners and all things foreign

Stiofan · May 21, 2008, 11:11 AM

Dude, I feel for you but your post makes you seem a wacko. Sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allserene

my ethnicity is non - American, a foreigner, an alien, although Americans with a British lineage should know that unless their forebears came over on the Mayflower (It was a pretty small boat), then their ancestors were much more likely to have been related to, or even part of the British forces trying to quell the rebellion of 1776.

I am sensitive, aren't you ? It's better than being insensitive. I hope your dentist is sensitive. Insensitive people with guns isn't a good thing is it ? The SS had a lot of those.

We Europeans have experience of political systems that send some to the left and some to the right. Humans and sub-humans. Some are inside the fence and the others can burn. That is why we don't have this 'alien without rights' concept in Europe and why it is so strange to be identified as 'alien' and treated differently.

If Americans mixed better with ' aliens ' they would have a wider and more enjoyable experience.. I just opened a bank account (I am allowed to do that) and I was asked where I learned English. When I said 'England' I was asked if they spoke English there.

Come on America and realise that foreigners are just like you and should not be restricted and put 'under the thumb' and bullied and deprived like a new boy at school.

What if the hundreds of countries who have American bases, invalidated driving licenses for American service personnel there until America started treating 'aliens' equally in the USA ?

They wouldn't of course because it's not their way

I have lived in Wisconsin and Florida and now Washington Stae so luckily I know that America has tens of millions of decent, reasonable, deep-thinking , educated, sensitive friendly people - so coming across a few grumpy 'anti-foreigners' isnt going to send me home defeated - nothing will actually.

I think every gun owner in the US should have a gun license which can be withdrawn if their personality is inconsistent with gun ownership. Hatred of foreigners would be an indicator for a start.

Isn't that what Mohammed Atta had ?

Coming into a US Gun forum and saying Europeans are better than Ameicans is not a good start. BTW, how many Americans can own unlimited handguns while residing in Britain? For that matter, how many British can?

Were you not able to get a driver's license? I really don't see your linking the two otherwise, because legal aliens can get a driver's license, just like our military personnel at the European bases.

Advocating that every US gunowner must be licensed (I'm not licensed and have no intension of doing so, then again it's not a requirement yet......maybe it will be when enough of those like yourself become citizens) is a non-starter for sure.

I guess from the educated elitist European point of view everything you post makes sense. But if you truely want to become an American when you are able, I'd lose the attitude first. No one likes being talked down to, especially by someone from a contintent which has been so successful in dealing amongst themselves over the centuries.

allserene · May 21, 2008, 11:41 AM

I didn't say Europeans were better than Americans - I am saying we are both the same and should not be discriminated against - either Americans abroad or foreigners here

Americans in England are subject to the same laws as an English person in every way - zero discrimination. In fact you are allowed 6 months as a visitor in England whereas an English person is allowed 90 days in the US

I am sorry if my reasonable level of education offends you but it's hard to shake off after all these years and I wouldn't want to do that just so nobody ever calls me elitist. Doesn't the gun lobby want educated people joining them and pushing for gun rights ?

I am on my 3rd U.S. driving licence - Wisconsin /Florida /Washington so you missed my point which was that if my Green Card is genuine enough for 3 driver's licenses (I passed car and motorcycle road and theory tests here) , then why not for a .22 lr single shot rifle license ?

U.S government agencies CAN tell the difference between a genuine green card and a forgery

I can't figure out why Americans are happy to see their own existing gun freedom legislation being frustrated by an admin hiccup between departments , just so that they can take swipe at a foreigner

If I thought this was a majority position in America I would pack up and leave - but I still don't believe it is. I believe there are literate, reasonable, fair minded, open, rational, friendly Americans and I am sticking with that belief and staying and taking the discrimination whilst fighting it

If that is a 'bad attitude' in anyone's book then so be it

TimRB · May 21, 2008, 11:49 AM

"The more people who can be allowed to take up the hobby, the more people can defend against unreasonable gun laws"

"Be allowed"??? "Hobby"???

You need to stop thinking like a European.

Tim

thrgunsmith · May 21, 2008, 11:54 AM

LostOne · May 21, 2008, 11:58 AM

Someone who is not even a US citizen should not be telling the US what its gun laws should/shouldn't be.

thrgunsmith · May 21, 2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

I was asked where I learned English. When I said 'England' I was asked if they spoke English there.

Thats really funny...it really happened? LOL!

I was living in Ireland and was in a heated political debate with a Scotsman about gun rights (he was against them) and after scoring a good point (we had a drunken audience keeping up with the debate) he said "why don't you learn to speak English" ...I replied..."I'm not in England, why should I. ?"
That clinched it, I was the clear winner....You'll notice our American debates are not settled with ideas, just clever one liners.

Wyldman · May 21, 2008, 12:07 PM

I believe that the 2nd Amendment should pertain ONLY to AMERICAN CITIZENS! Of course, illegal aliens should have absolutely NO rights in this country (zip, zero, nada) and Resident Aliens only limited rights. This IMHO, is a matter of national security and public safety.

I for one, am sick to death of hearing non-citizens gripe and complain about our country because they feel that our laws and politics are not fair to them. Guess what guys, they AREN'T SUPPOSED to be fair to you all! They were designed for US, not you! You come here either as a guest or an invader and then try to CHANGE our laws and policies to benefit YOU and attempt to turn our nation into the very nation you fled from. If you don't like our laws or our politics then, LEAVE! Go back to your own country and tell THEM how unfair we are ... I for one don't care to hear it anymore and WON'T miss you!

allserene · May 21, 2008, 12:09 PM

The more people who can be allowed to take up the hobby, the more people can defend against unreasonable gun laws"

"Be allowed"??? "Hobby"???

You need to stop thinking like a European.

Tim

Tim I think you are right - I do think of target shooting as a hobby - I don't want to strut around in bars with a concealed Glock looking for a reason to be provoked and then to shoot someone. Am I being un-American if I don't want to do that ?

Perhaps that is why I am not making a connection with you guys - I am thinking of the shooting world as fun and an interest when it's more about appearing tough and killing people ?

If that is the case then it looks like I stumbled into the wrong forum and that has to be my fault and the result of being a stranger here.

If it isn't the case, then I would like to stay and make my case, even if nobody agrees with me so far about removing the administrative deadlock with the existing legislation.

Actually I think I did make my case and people don't agree

LostOne · May 21, 2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

I believe that the 2nd Amendment should pertain ONLY to AMERICAN CITIZENS! Of course, illegal aliens should have absolutely NO rights in this country (zip, zero, nada) and Resident Aliens only limited rights. This IMHO, is a matter of national security and public safety.

I for one, am sick to death of hearing non-citizens gripe and complain about our country because they feel that our laws and politics are not fair to them. Guess what guys, they AREN'T SUPPOSED to be fair to you all! They were designed for US, not you! You come here either as a guest or an invader and then try to CHANGE our laws and policies to benefit YOU and attempt to turn our nation into the very nation you fled from. If you don't like our laws or our politics then, LEAVE! Go back to your own country and tell THEM how unfair we are ... I for one don't care to hear it anymore and WON'T miss you!

QFE

Quote:

Perhaps that is why I am not making a connection with you guys - I am thinking of the shooting world as fun and an interest when it's more about appearing tough and killing people ?

Guns are tools, I don't even like shooting but I recognize the importance of every American owning one of the most important tools of all.

allserene · May 21, 2008, 12:20 PM

Someone who is not even a US citizen should not be telling the US what its gun laws should/shouldn't be.

I am not - I fully support the existing Washington law which allows fully legal foreigners to have a firearm so long as they have an 'alien firearms license' - I just want it to be actioned that's all

I am not an American citizen yet but I am a human and was born with the natural right to speak out - in this country or anywhere

If you disagree with that then it's you who is not a real American - no matter where you were born

LostOne · May 21, 2008, 12:21 PM

You weren't born with anything that automatically makes you a US citizen, and until you are one you need to stop complaining about our laws. Move back to Europe, try buying some guns over their before you start on us.

May 21, 2008, 09:20 AM	#35
copenhagen Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 592	Did a little thinking Allserene buddy, you come off like you have an attitude problem or something, at least the way I took it. Beyond that, here's the thing, I do believe you have the right to keep/carry/purchase arms in America. It is you unalienable right. __________________ 'The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.' Thomas Jefferson National Rifle Association Life Member

May 21, 2008, 09:56 AM	#36
talonap Member Join Date: March 5, 2005 Posts: 39	I am from the planet Garignac. How may I obtain one of these papers so that I may use my Destructo Laser legally? Klatu __________________ Talon

May 21, 2008, 11:54 AM	#43
thrgunsmith Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 196	Aliens? Firearms? __________________ R.I.P Sam "Trout" Barbetta 82nd Airborne, S.F biker, friend. http://www.ahalenia.com/memorial/sbarbetta.html

May 21, 2008, 12:07 PM	#46
Wyldman Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2008 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 113	I believe that the 2nd Amendment should pertain ONLY to AMERICAN CITIZENS! Of course, illegal aliens should have absolutely NO rights in this country (zip, zero, nada) and Resident Aliens only limited rights. This IMHO, is a matter of national security and public safety. I for one, am sick to death of hearing non-citizens gripe and complain about our country because they feel that our laws and politics are not fair to them. Guess what guys, they AREN'T SUPPOSED to be fair to you all! They were designed for US, not you! You come here either as a guest or an invader and then try to CHANGE our laws and policies to benefit YOU and attempt to turn our nation into the very nation you fled from. If you don't like our laws or our politics then, LEAVE! Go back to your own country and tell THEM how unfair we are ... I for one don't care to hear it anymore and WON'T miss you! __________________ David L. "The stupider people think you are, the more surprised they are when you kill them."

May 20, 2008, 11:18 PM	#26
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	my ethnicity is non - American, a foreigner, an alien, although Americans with a British lineage should know that unless their forebears came over on the Mayflower (It was a pretty small boat), then their ancestors were much more likely to have been related to, or even part of the British forces trying to quell the rebellion of 1776. I am sensitive, aren't you ? It's better than being insensitive. I hope your dentist is sensitive. Insensitive people with guns isn't a good thing is it ? The SS had a lot of those. We Europeans have experience of political systems that send some to the left and some to the right. Humans and sub-humans. Some are inside the fence and the others can burn. That is why we don't have this 'alien without rights' concept in Europe and why it is so strange to be identified as 'alien' and treated differently. If Americans mixed better with ' aliens ' they would have a wider and more enjoyable experience.. I just opened a bank account (I am allowed to do that) and I was asked where I learned English. When I said 'England' I was asked if they spoke English there. Come on America and realise that foreigners are just like you and should not be restricted and put 'under the thumb' and bullied and deprived like a new boy at school. What if the hundreds of countries who have American bases, invalidated driving licenses for American service personnel there until America started treating 'aliens' equally in the USA ? They wouldn't of course because it's not their way I have lived in Wisconsin and Florida and now Washington Stae so luckily I know that America has tens of millions of decent, reasonable, deep-thinking , educated, sensitive friendly people - so coming across a few grumpy 'anti-foreigners' isnt going to send me home defeated - nothing will actually. I think every gun owner in the US should have a gun license which can be withdrawn if their personality is inconsistent with gun ownership. Hatred of foreigners would be an indicator for a start. Isn't that what Mohammed Atta had ?

May 20, 2008, 11:47 PM	#28
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	Most Americans came from Europe originally - that's why I can't figure the antagonism against newcomers. I joined this post because I expected that shooters would want to help each other to keep their guns and expand their shooting interest. I am sure that's the case actually The more people who can be allowed to take up the hobby, the more people can defend against unreasonable gun laws Shooters who want to disarm anyone who wasn't born in the USA (immigrant aliens like Bob Hope and Charlie Chaplin and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Julie Andrews) are doing the shooting interests no favors in the long run Only people like O J Simpson will be allowed to have guns - an American Citizen so he must be ok

May 20, 2008, 11:50 PM	#29
LostOne Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2008 Posts: 157	If you aren't a US citizen you have no right to be demanding anything, just my personal view.

May 21, 2008, 12:11 AM	#30
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	I understand that there is a strong thread in American culture that sees U.S. Citizens as being better than other people and 'aliens' should have lesser rights while they are in the USA It is unique in the developed world and luckily other Western Nations do not retaliate against U.S. Citizens who live there by making them 'lesser' It is something I will work to change when I am a U.S. Citizen but perhaps someone already did it : The 14th amendment says it best "no state shall… deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." How far have we come from that to 'You foreigners can get out if you don't like discrimatory laws' oh America what happened in between times and when will 'all men created equal' actually mean something again ? You American shooters go to every corner of the globe to shoot lions and bears etc etc and you expect every country to allow you to posssess a gun there - why should foreigners not be allowed here ? Of course if you don't believe in fairness, then the question answers itself

May 21, 2008, 12:20 AM	#31
LostOne Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2008 Posts: 157	If you want gun rights become a legal US citizen.

May 21, 2008, 12:55 AM	#32
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	I am totally legal in the USA and I have been checked out in depth and approved by the CIA and the FBI which is more than many crack head glock toting Americans Citizens have - and I will pay more tax to the U.S. Treasury in the next few years than many Americans pay in their life times. I am not allowed to become a citizen until 2.5 years have passed or I would Until then I will be one less voice in the gun lobby simply because of the place where I was born all those years ago When your guns are gradually taken from you, you will regret turning potential allies away just because they dont drive pickup trucks and were born somewhere else

May 21, 2008, 04:12 AM	#34
erlkonig Junior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Posts: 3	Allserene man, You cannot contend with 'birthright'; you might contribute much much more than the average Joe, but due process matters. You are irked because you demand a certain 'fairness' from the system (eg. why can't a law-abiding tax-paying PR holder get a gun while ... blah blah ). It's not fair. It isn't fair that some smart IT kid from some so-called developing country is making a blast in Joe's land, milking it and rubbing it in Joe's face by living it up and driving a Porsche. You sound like you are doing well~ Your time outside the US of A must have somehow contributed to your above-average success here; it's not fair. Let's suck it up and wait till next year.

May 21, 2008, 10:09 AM	#37
zbordas Registration in progress Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 107	Allserene, I fully feel for you. The great state of Texas makes no difference between US citizens and legal permanent residents as far as firearm and carry laws. For those who made "Sorry Buddy..." kind of comments: the worst strategy for us; gun owners. Most immigrants gaining resident status to the US are anti-gun and gun supporters are a shrinking group. I know lot of people living, working having families in the US for 10-15 years before deciding to give up their born citizenship (Swedish, Italian, German, Hungarian, Austian etc.) and become a US citizen. If you alienate the few that would support gun rights now they will probably vote against it once they gain citizenship. 1. I think you should contact the NRA and/or the state association and get their help to close this loophole. It also means that a green card holder with a CCW permit Washington State honors can get arrested and prosecuted. 2. Move to Texas. The weather is great here and jobs are well paying for professionals working in the oil industry.

May 21, 2008, 10:58 AM	#39
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	Well first of all I am not an IT kid with Porsche - I am a 60 year old retired guy who got his money from decades of hard work including unloading coal trucks with a shovel, being an inner city policeman and the Finance Director of an American Company in Europe. I have 3 grandchildren including a 16 year old grandson. My wife is from Wisconsin and she has struggled 10 hours per day, 7 days a week for 6 months to get a job after we returned from England and this job in Washington State job is the only one she could get. So I can't just move to Texas or the more free and equal States Saying there are a lot of forged green cards so mine can't be accepted is the same as saying my green card can't be accepted for getting a driver's license and I should not be allowed to drive for 2.5 years. This forged green card stuff is just an excuse for employers who deliberately hire illegals - the Washington Licensing people and immigration can sure tell which cards are genuine. People like me who went through hell for years to get their genuine green card are VERY anti illegals Also, I am not asking for a change in the law to suit me - Washington State actually passed this 'alien firearms license' legislation to ALLOW aliens to have guns - the 'will of the people ' is being frustrated by this adminstrative glitch and it's that I am complaining about and not the existing law. I am complaining about an existing American law not being implemented because of admin problems. I want this already existing American law to be allowed to operate I don't have an 'attitude' - I am safe and experienced with guns and I was a committee member of a gun club for 14 years. My first gun was a 12 bore 3 inch magnum that I bought when I was 13 and I hunted alone with that. It was legal then in England Anyone who posts on this forum is a shooter. I am shocked that shooters don't encourage safe , respectable, legally resident shooters who live permanently in their area, simply because of a hatred of foreigners and all things foreign

May 21, 2008, 11:41 AM	#41
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	I didn't say Europeans were better than Americans - I am saying we are both the same and should not be discriminated against - either Americans abroad or foreigners here Americans in England are subject to the same laws as an English person in every way - zero discrimination. In fact you are allowed 6 months as a visitor in England whereas an English person is allowed 90 days in the US I am sorry if my reasonable level of education offends you but it's hard to shake off after all these years and I wouldn't want to do that just so nobody ever calls me elitist. Doesn't the gun lobby want educated people joining them and pushing for gun rights ? I am on my 3rd U.S. driving licence - Wisconsin /Florida /Washington so you missed my point which was that if my Green Card is genuine enough for 3 driver's licenses (I passed car and motorcycle road and theory tests here) , then why not for a .22 lr single shot rifle license ? U.S government agencies CAN tell the difference between a genuine green card and a forgery I can't figure out why Americans are happy to see their own existing gun freedom legislation being frustrated by an admin hiccup between departments , just so that they can take swipe at a foreigner If I thought this was a majority position in America I would pack up and leave - but I still don't believe it is. I believe there are literate, reasonable, fair minded, open, rational, friendly Americans and I am sticking with that belief and staying and taking the discrimination whilst fighting it If that is a 'bad attitude' in anyone's book then so be it

May 21, 2008, 11:49 AM	#42
TimRB Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 1,049	"The more people who can be allowed to take up the hobby, the more people can defend against unreasonable gun laws" "Be allowed"??? "Hobby"??? You need to stop thinking like a European. Tim

May 21, 2008, 11:58 AM	#44
LostOne Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2008 Posts: 157	Someone who is not even a US citizen should not be telling the US what its gun laws should/shouldn't be.

May 21, 2008, 12:09 PM	#47
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	The more people who can be allowed to take up the hobby, the more people can defend against unreasonable gun laws" "Be allowed"??? "Hobby"??? You need to stop thinking like a European. Tim Tim I think you are right - I do think of target shooting as a hobby - I don't want to strut around in bars with a concealed Glock looking for a reason to be provoked and then to shoot someone. Am I being un-American if I don't want to do that ? Perhaps that is why I am not making a connection with you guys - I am thinking of the shooting world as fun and an interest when it's more about appearing tough and killing people ? If that is the case then it looks like I stumbled into the wrong forum and that has to be my fault and the result of being a stranger here. If it isn't the case, then I would like to stay and make my case, even if nobody agrees with me so far about removing the administrative deadlock with the existing legislation. Actually I think I did make my case and people don't agree

May 21, 2008, 12:20 PM	#49
allserene Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: Wenatchee, Washington State Posts: 50	Someone who is not even a US citizen should not be telling the US what its gun laws should/shouldn't be. I am not - I fully support the existing Washington law which allows fully legal foreigners to have a firearm so long as they have an 'alien firearms license' - I just want it to be actioned that's all I am not an American citizen yet but I am a human and was born with the natural right to speak out - in this country or anywhere If you disagree with that then it's you who is not a real American - no matter where you were born

May 21, 2008, 12:21 PM	#50
LostOne Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2008 Posts: 157	You weren't born with anything that automatically makes you a US citizen, and until you are one you need to stop complaining about our laws. Move back to Europe, try buying some guns over their before you start on us.