Obtaining an alien firearms license - WA State

[zbordas]

Just to clarify: the US constitution and federal / state laws apply to everybody who sets foot on US soil not only to US citizens. If the constitution says you cannot discriminate based on skin color religion etc. you cannot do that on US soil even if you are a non-citizen muslim or jewish, black or white.

If laws of ones country of origin says you can have consensual sex with a girl under 17 or you can smoke pot you are still charged if you do it on US soil. If ones country of origin allows you to have consensual sex between muslim and christian some countries might execute you for doing it on their territory.

[LostOne]

You obey the countries laws that you are in, simple. If you don't like them you can leave, you aren't even a legal citizen so you don't have any basis to tell me what your rights are.

[zbordas]

It is obvious that if anybody goes anywhere he has certain rights. Hence the British cannot throw you to jail without a trial even if you are not a citizen of GB because it is against their laws and you have the right for a fair trial.
A cop killer cannot be convicted in the US without a fair trial even if he was in the country illegaly because it is against our laws and he has the right for a fair trial.

The questions is: Is it a right or is it a privilige to own a firearm?

Is it a right or a privilige to not to be discriminated based on skin color or religion. Does that apply to US citizens only? Hence a guy coming from Nigeria and applying for immigration status is ok to be discriminated based on his skin color? Or not?

[LostOne]

If hes not a US citizen thats fine with me, US laws should only apply to US citizens. We can have some basic decency that applies to everyone, but they have no rights in which to demand anything socially.

[w_houle]

Then why do we allow non citizens admission into our armed forces?

[zbordas]

So the US should have 2 sets of laws and 2 constitution. One for citizens and one for non-citizens? That would make us quite unique no doubdt about that.

[LostOne]

So the US should have 2 sets of laws and 2 constitution. One for citizens and one for non-citizens? That would make us quite unique no doubdt about that.

Thats fine with me, people who aren't Americans shouldn't be treated the same as Americans by the government.

Americans always come first, none Americans come second.

[zbordas]

First, here is the big problem. If we advocate that it is a right of citizens only it automatically makes it a privilige. Like you cannot go to a hospital in England and take advantage of their social healtcare system because it is a privilige provided for British citizens only. You have to pay for the service.

So next year the British goverment might change that privilige at will based on their current opinion.

If we consider and advocate that firearm ownership is a privilige that applies to US citizens only it is subject to change by the goverment at will as if it is a fundemantal right provided by our constitution it cannot be taken away.

Second, if you don't trust all those foreigners owning handguns what will make them different after they get their US passports. All of the sudden their attitude and loyalty will miraculously change and they become true patriots? Based on your opinion only US born citizens should have the privilige to own firearm if anybody at all. That would really make it a privilige and would be taken away in no time.

The anti-gun groups currently are in far more better shape then we are. They have access to almost unlimited funding sponsored by giga-corporations and people like Soros. If they ever prove that gun rights are really priviliges you can be sure it'll be taken in no time.

[LostOne]

Gun rights are the rights of AMERICANS, and Americans only.

[zbordas]

Gun rights are the rights of AMERICANS, and Americans only.

So free speech is the right of American people only? Or the privilige of Americans only? So it can be taken away?

Americans always come first, none Americans come second.

If it is about rights you are totally wrong and pretty close to Hitler's race ideology just a newer version of it. The constitution and laws apply to all individuals under US jurisdiction. I have not ever heard of somebody not being guilty of a murder because he is not the citizen of the country he commited the crime in. A privilige like social security and medicare is provided and funded by the US goverment and subject to change at will. In order to take advantage of medicare you have to be a US citizen I think (but not sure).

[LostOne]

So free speech is the right of American people only? Or the privilige of Americans only? So it can be taken away?

Yes, if your not an American there is no reason we should allow free speech for you in America, if your not an American, why are you even in America?

If somone wants to become a legal citizen through proper means that is OK, but to simply set foot in a country and think you are equal to the people who are citizens of that country is just wrong,

[zbordas]

I AM a US citizen and a patriot but you do not sound like one. We go to other countries and advocate democracy, freedom and free speech with great losses in American lifes while you think people coming to our own country should be hammered down and their rights should be taken. This is not the American way. We defend freedom not take it away.

If we happend to loose the Heller vs DC I tell you what is going to happen. Cities and states will start applying and enforcing their tiny little local gun control laws because the court says they have the right to do so. Because it is a privilige only. So cities will start to outlaw guns slowly starting with urban areas of the US and all of the sudden we wake up one morning and find ourselves like Australia; "NO GUNS ALLOWED".

We better wake up and start working on it now until it is too late. We should unite not divide!

[LostOne]

Freedom for Americans, the US isn't the nanny of the world, we do hopefully whats in our best interest not what "feels good",

[nobody_special]

Gun rights are the rights of AMERICANS, and Americans only.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

[Stiofan]

Just for those interested, the problems in Washington are unique to that state. There is no national requirement to restricting gun ownership to citizens, except for the following:

You must be a resident of that state for 90 days;
you must intend to live there permanently;
you must be a legally residing in the United States;
you must meet all other guidelines for gun ownership that citizens must meet and;
you must meet any additional requirements of the state you live in.

This is taken from the BATF website. The problem with Washington is the last line. They require an alien firearms license. Most other states don't. For instance California only requires proof of residency for 90 days.

Since it's a requirement of the state you live in, you need to be there for 90 days, prove it, then deal with their extra requirements.

There is nothing in our national laws prohibiting ownership by aliens except the residency requirements, the legal entry and visa, and it can't be a nonimmigrant visa (you have to intend to live here permanently).

[Wyldman]

Just don't tell it to anybody specially not to an anti-gunner. You are dividing the gun owner population that can lead to disarming the whole. They will quickly disarm the non-citizen gun owners and for the next no one will care. Be careful what you wish for .

I will tell it where I please ... another one of my American rights!

As far as them EVER coming to take our guns goes, that will be the day! If you want to see our 2nd civil war ... just let them try and YOU WILL! This isn't Europe friend! See, we won't just stand-by and say, "uhhh, okay ... you can take my gun away". OH HECK NO! I will give my guns to them one (or both) of two ways: Bullets first and when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands! Everyone who frets that the government will come and take our guns may as well be fretting over doomsday because, they will be the same day!

[allserene]

A privilige like social security and medicare is provided and funded by the US goverment and subject to change at will. In order to take advantage of medicare you have to be a US citizen I think (but not sure).

zbordas I like your words which are what I expected from a true American of high ideals.

To get medicare you can be a citizen or a 5 year resident.
I entered the USA 1 day before my 60th birthday and I would qualify for medicare on my 65th birthday

Don't worry patriots I am not looking for something for nothing and I would still pay about 7000 dollars per annum contribution after 65 because of my zero work record, and I will pay about 30k per annum US tax on top of that in respect of my European investments because uncle Sam taxes world wide income of residents. I am not a guest here because guests are not taxed. If I was younger I could be drafted into the forces and younger residents have to agree to that

Luckily I have married a beautiful young American woman with a fantastic job who's employer benefits will cover me so no sweat there patriots. I know your eyeballs are scouring this for the slightest hint that I am leeching on the US state but I am not - just the opposite I will be spending my million bucks here to buy more rockets and bombs for you so you won't have to borrow the money from the Chinese - that's good isn't it ?

I find the US most interesting because of the huge extremes. There are the best people in the world and the worst here. The most sincere and the most hypocritical. The most educated and the most ignorant. The kindest and the cruelest. Saints and torturers. Full blown NAZIS and full on Socialists. The weather is the same.

In England it is pretty much of a muchness but here I need to seek out the best people and take great care to avoid the worst people.
Now I have that figured I just have to stay occupied for 2.5 years plus processing time until I become a Roman - oops I mean an American Citizen, so I will be allowed to possess a pop gun

Of course I could just ask my U.S. Citizen wife to buy a nice big 45 auto and keep it under the pillow - I bet that would send the supremacists into a lather wondering how they could legislate against that - an 'alien' being a few inches away from an operable firearm legally - and having sex with a pure bred American citizen too - how can this be stopped ? Yes the parallels with Germany in 1933 are there for all to see.

ok I am being a wind up merchant now but it is all hypocracy you know and to say that OJ can have a 45 auto but Tony Blair can't shoot some clay pigeons on a Sunday morning is just illogical

[tplumeri]

Obtaining an alien firearms license

sorry, dont have any input, i thought this was about different kind of aliens.....

[allserene]

Actually you ain't that far off and the treatment isn't that much different - but the green aliens will bring their own guns and don't ask permission so perhaps I am a tiny bit more welcome - well perhaps not coz at least they won't be as sassy not knowing the lingo and all
Actually I read some of the other threads today and I really have stumbled into the wrong website and it's not really about target shooting or game shooting etc as a hobby and an enjoyable interest - more like when it's ok to shoot someone on a gas station forecourt and whether a certain round will blast someone's head off if they are behind a brick wall

It's my fault in not checking that first so sorry to disturb the proceedings and ruffle feathers - I am a true alien here and don't belong

Alan

[marthas]

Every human being is equal and their lifes has no more or no less value; that's how I raise my children.

According to a close friend of mine who is an immigration officer:

1. The rights of both citizens and non-citizens are protected by the US Constitution. However, there are some rights specifically reserved for citizens, such as the right to a Federal job and to vote.

2. All male residents living in the US must enlist to the military if between the age of 19 and 26 regardless of their immigration status (assuming its legal) and subject to mandatory draft in the event of war and their duty to fight.

[TimRB]

"more like when it's ok to shoot someone on a gas station forecourt and whether a certain round will blast someone's head off if they are behind a brick wall

It's my fault in not checking that first so sorry to disturb the proceedings and ruffle feathers - I am a true alien here and don't belong"

Well, good luck wherever you go. But I submit, based on your comments here, that you will never fully understand the American point of view when it comes to the right to keep and bear arms. I hope I am wrong about that, but I think it is so.

Tim

[allserene]

you will never fully understand the American point of view when it comes to the right to keep and bear arms.

When I first came to the U.S. I railed against a lot of the differences which seemed so illogical, but I gradually came to see that the way things were done here was right and sensible for this different environment

However

I would love to posses and use target/hunting guns but wanting a gun in case there is an American government I don't like so I can then take on the whole of the U.S. Military with my little pistol tucked into my underpants doesn't seem like a project that would be successful. Protecting the country from foreign Princes will be done with thermo-nuclear devices (try saying say that George) and not with pop-pops

and on the protection from criminals front, many people spend a lot of time trying to figure out when they can shoot people legally without getting into trouble themselves. If I carried a gun and ended up in an American prison for using it - well I have seen U.S. prisons on TV and I would rather be shot dead by a criminal than be caged like that in those conditions for decades


So I am pro-gun ownership but for different reasons and it's nothing to do with overthrowing a future socialist American government or disemboweling burglars with a hollow point bullet. Anyway I think too much of my carpet for that and my red haired Irish/Cherokee American wife could lick anyone - armed or not

[JayCee]

Please show me where it's stated in the Bill of Rights that you must be a citizen to partake of those rights. The Second Amendment addresses the "right of the people to keep and bear arms", not the "right of citizens to keep and bear arms". There's a difference...

[LostOne]

The word people refers to US citizens, the founding fathers never for-saw all these illegals coming into the country.

[JayCee]

The word people refers to US citizens

Where does it say that?