Obtaining an alien firearms license - WA State

[cubanitojr]

I checked the Oregon Law, This is what is required for Aliens.

1. Oregon Valid Drivers License or ID card
2. Be 21 or older
3. Social Security Card
4. Permanent resident GreenCard
5. Proof of residency (Phone or utility bill)

I wish WA law was this simple.

I could buy my guns the same day ! No waiting periods or BS.

The problem is that I work and live in WA. So I wonder how Vancouver, WA residents working in Portland, OR deal with this?

Maybe I should move all together to OR and ignore WA until the AFL issue is resolved. Tempting...Immigrating to a free-er state to exercise my right to 2nd amendment. I love this country !

[allserene]

I think they have State Income tax though so we couldn't afford the fuel to barbecue the wild pig

Let's face it we are stuffed until somebody cares

I wish some real ALIENS would come floating down - then they would be giving guns to all the terrestrial ALIENS to fight them off

Rudyard Kipling had it right:

and it's Tommy this and it's Tommy that and it's throw him out the brute
But it's 'saviour of his country' when the guns begin to shoot

[cubanitojr]

Lip served, disappointed and more bureaucracy wait.

Guys this is Rep. Ross response.

===============================================

The solution to this problem is to move the responsibility for issuing these permits from DOL to the State Patrol. Since it will involve moving staff around this may be difficult. The inertia that these people create is painful. I will get one of the guys who work on gun issues to work through this and make sure they get it right.

I tend to irritate the pro-gun people, so it’s better if I’m not the guy working it. I don’t have any issues with this – I’m sure the people who actually apply for these licenses do not cause much problem, and probably generate some revenue for parts of the state that could use it.

We can’t do anything until January. You’ll miss hunting season this year. Sorry. You should apply for citizenship at some point and avoid this hassle.

Representative Ross Hunter
Finance Committee Chairman

333 John L. O'Brien Building
Capitol Campus
Olympia, WA 98504
(360) 786-7936 Olympia Office
(425) 453-3064 District Office
==============================================

Yes, he is right. I will miss hunting season this year. He does not understand applying for Citizenship is not like obtaining a drivers license. I can not even apply until the beginning of 2010.

It serves no purpose not being able to legally own a rifle on my own property. I will sell my ranch, lay off my workers and remove all assets from WA and move to beautiful Colorado.

[allserene]

Washington State has a long and inglorious history of hostility towards newcomers which is not softening as the years pass

It's quite ironic given the percentage of the population which comes from Latin America and Asia


I like the mountains and sea and no state income tax - but the rest of it - the oppressive traffic policing and this dismissive uncaring attitude towards fully legal non- citizens, gives the game way and reveals the Washington State politics for what it is

It's still the wild west with a 'hang em high' truculent mentality and doesn't deserve the money and progress that comes with enlightened attitudes and a welcoming attitude to incoming investment and legally qualified newcomers

Yes, nice State, shame about the attitudes

[allserene]

Written to him as follows:


Dear Sir

I write regarding the problem with the ‘Alien Firearm License’ and the interaction between the FBI and the Washington DOL

I believe that the Washington State politicians have given up on trying to solve this impasse and are content to leave it until next year.

Washington State passed legislation for this license originally, and to allow this problem to continue is to allow existing Washington legislation to be frustrated. At it’s worst, it is a furtive reversal of existing legislation by the back door and I don’t think the present situation is fair or justifiable

Washington State has an inglorious history regarding non-citizens in the last century and the State needs to make special efforts to correct it’s reputation in that regard in order to attract inward investment and legally qualified newcomers to add to it’s economy. A ‘dog in the manager attitude’ towards legal incomers does Washington no favors

I am a British National and not qualified for Citizenship until 2 years in November. I am retired and affluent and I am bringing foreign funds into Washington without needing to take a job from anyone.

I think that Washington Politicians are prepared to let this administrative problem fester with no sense of urgency in getting it resolved.

When I do acquire Citizenship, I will remember those parties and representatives who represent an enlightened and modern attitude to incoming capital and those who are tied to the hostile and discriminatory practises of the past.

Washington is a beautiful State and deserves an uplifting and enlightened political environment as well as clean rivers.

The status quo is not acceptable and is causing much resentment amongst the population of fully legal non- citizens and all their friends and business contacts and families.

This problem will not be allowed to languish and will become more and more publicized

[cubanitojr]

Allserene,

Thanks for your letter to Ross.

I need to think about my next course of action, maybe I consult my attorney, he is a powerful person and personal friend, he'll be delighted to hear about this issue. I have the gut feeling it is somewhat a discriminatory legal loophole, that effectively disarms law abiding WA residents.

The sure thing, I am joining the NRA and WA pro-gun groups. This will entertain my mind for a just cause.

[MD_Willington]

Honestly they need to have the County Sheriffs in charge of these licenses, not the WSP. The County Sheriffs already deal with the WA State CPL, it would be a logical step for them to be in charge of any other firearms licenses.

Another angle, the upcoming Winter Olympics in Vancouver BC. Ross could press the issue like my Rep on the grounds that the license nonsense impedes revenues from Tourism/Olympics games etcetera.

allserene, the real rub here is this, in both countries where I'm a citizen, any US tourist or legal immigrant can get a similar license IIRC.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/online-en_.../default_e.asp
http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/index.htm

Yes, I'm both a Canadian and UK citizen.

[allserene]

Md - the sporting thing is a good angle.

Actually, the discrimination hurts more than not having a rifle and when the discrimination is removed, I will be so chuffed that I might forget to go and get a rifle !

I can't think of a first world country that seeks to draw circles round groups of people lawfully living in the country, and then applies different laws to them.

This stuff belongs to the age when Japanese descended people were put in concentration camps in Washington or black people were designated 'non-citizens' and not allowed firearms

It needs to be routed out of modern US society just like lynchings and white only rest rooms in the 1960's

I sniff a huge vulnerability among these elected officials who are looking really bad considering Washington's recent history and I reckon we should jump this FBI problem and get the alien firearms act itself repealed.

[MD_Willington]

They were working along those lines, i.e. once you had a Green Card, the license provision would be dropped entirely, since they recognized if you made it that far then chances are you'd be a citizen soon enough.


Well, at midnight tonight, we're one day closer to becoming a US citizen

[MD_Willington]

My local guy contacted me, he is going to contact Cathy McMorris Rogers. As I have already done so.

He voted in favor of 2955:

I did vote in support of HB 2955 which passed both the House and Senate unanimously. I'm disappointed it didn't give you better results, that was clearly the intention.

Also:

Keep me posted as the 2009 Legislative Session begins, I'll consider
sponsoring legislation if you need to go that route again.

[allserene]

I take it they do some work, pass some stuff and then knock off for the rest of the year whether it works or not....

See ya next year indeed
Who do they think they are ? Santa Claus ?

[MD_Willington]

No, my reps are pretty busy, they deal with a lot of farming issues and fight against the foolishness on the West side of the State... it's also an election year so they are busy with that too.

I know my local rep personally, so we are pretty informal about our emails.

Sometimes it is who you know and not what's on the piece of paper that tells people what you know

[allserene]

That's good news - getting the inside story is so important. Let's hope there is another route although all I seem to hear is 'next year perhaps'

With an administrative problem like this, sometimes arrangements can be made that don't even require legislation

We will see

[MD_Willington]

Just thought of something here, The Cathy McMorris Letter I have has a letter from the FBI stating that if WA did what they did with HB 2955 then that would clear the way for the DOL to get back to issuing the AFL's...

So the crux is this, they spelled it out, WA did what they asked and now the FBI drops the ball, so how can we expose this?

Talking about a potential "egg on face" situation here...


MD

[MD_Willington]

Phone: (425) 454-7012

It boils down to this... All of you guys on here that are legal immigrants or green card holders, need to call SAF and get a hold of Mr Gottlieb or at least talk to some one at the SAF and tell them you story regarding the AFL debacle...

You may, or probably will, end up being called to court as a plaintiff, so be prepared for this.

MD

--> Who'd rather be out enjoying Independence day plinking with friends and family, but instead gets to hammer on a keyboard !

[allserene]

forgive my ignorance but what is SAF ?

I am willing to give evidence etc any time i am called

[cubanitojr]

Second Amendment foundation.

http://www.saf.org/


The idea sounds interesting. I may give then a call this week.

Thanks MD.

[allserene]

I see Mr Gottlieb has a fraud conviction for which he was jailed under the work release program - that would get me jailed then deported never mind banned from gun ownership - even if I had a firearms license - there certainly is a big difference between citizens and non-citizens

However, if he can assist legal residents with this issue then that's fine by me !

[MD_Willington]

Well anyone paying attention, don't apply for an AFL...

Read the attached PDF...


If you apply for a WA State AFL, DOL will send your money back, When they figure out how they will do that, :scrutiny:

Everyone that has applied, fill out the form and get your money back, better yet fill it out and hope some news outlet ppicks up on their incompetence.

In other words

"Stop bugging the DOL, here's your money back when we figure out how to send it to you, shut your yaps."



DOL is trying to write off this issue by giving the funds back...


It is not about getting money back for me... I want this fixed !


Anyway...

My family & I went to the Fourth of July Parade in Johnson, Washington. My reps, Mark Schoesler, Joe Schmick and Cathy McMorris Rogers were all there participating in the parade, I chatted with them briefly.

Some of those who over heard the matter were appalled that someone who has legally been living here in WA for 8 years, 3 of which with a "green card" and who had been background checked by ICE, USCIS, locally, Federally and internationally (they check NLETS which is tied to RCMP records in Canada) had to put up with the licensing after all that.

I told Mark about contacting Alan Gottlieb and he said that was a good move and that Mark was aware of some other cases, one of which was to do with IIRC a Czech man who was a legal resident in OR that was pulled over in WA, and the WSP found a handgun in his car, he was perfectly legal in OR, of course WA State charged him with being in possession of a firearm and not a WA State AFL - He now faces deportation!


In all a good day, they all said they still had work to do on this issue and hang in there.

[allserene]

That's a load of bolony - when I went for my Washington driver's license a couple of months back they sent for checks on my green card to see if i was in the country legally. So what that form is saying about 'cannot check you are in the country legally ' is rubbish - its the USCIS (dept of homeland security)that tells them that anyway not the FBI

[allserene]

Md I appreciate your efforts greatly - don't lose heart and give up...

I am writing to the DOL again today and I will keep looking for contacts

This administative thing should be moveable without legislation - after all the law just requires the DOL to make the checks - it doesnt say HOW to do the checks - an administrative change on how the checks are deemed to be satisfied does not need legislation

My wife freaked out when I said I was going live in the newspapers about it as she thinks small towns can be very unforgiving and bad things can happen in America. That was something I had not considered being from tolerant old England where anything goes. So I have tried to withdraw my letter to the editor and i hope it works. Direct letters to public reps and officials are ok though so I will redouble my efforts with those.

[MD_Willington]

Check out acceptable documentation, they can use a foreign passport as ID...

http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/idproof.html

Out-of-state license — A valid, or expired within 60 days, out-of-state driver license, identification card, or photo instruction permit, or a driver license from a foreign country, plus either 1 supporting and 1 alternate document OR at least 2 alternate documents.


Alternate documents showing name and date of birth

* Certified birth certificate
* Concealed weapons permit
* Consular report of birth abroad
* Court-issued adoption papers
* King County Club Entertainer Card
* Military DD 214
* Parent with proof of identity and proof of relationship (for child 18 or older)
* Photo driver license from another state or foreign country (expired over 60 days)
* Refugee Relief Placement Packet
* U.S. or foreign passport (expired or without an I-94 form)
* Veteran Administration ID
* Ward of the Court decree
* Washington State driver license or ID card (expired)

[allserene]

yes your right they are much more lax than Florida - there, they sent off to the USCIS to prove right of residence in the US even though I had a green card and a SS card and a Wisconsin driver's license ! It took a month for the USCIS checks to be done before I could get a Florida license. Seems Washington is dead easy on driver's licenses.

[MD_Willington]

Dead easy on a lot of stuff if you're here ILLEGALLY!


'Sanctuary Cities' Embrace Illegal Immigrants - Seattle, Washington ...


No comment...

[allserene]

copy letter to DOL

Dear DOL

Please find attached my form to register my interest in news regarding the ‘Alien Firearms License’. I have no application money to refund.

I understand the problem with the FBI, but the sentence about ‘not being able to determine if the applicant is lawfully present in the United States’ leaves me distinctly puzzled as I have a green card and an immigrant visa in my passport to prove just that. I am also a U.S. tax payer with documents to show that I pay U.S. taxes as a legal permanent resident

In order to get my green card I had to be photographed, measured, weighed, fingerprinted, required to give a blood sample , undergo an extensive medical examination, have inoculations, an interview at the US Embassy in London, produce a UK Police Certificate to show no record, and have extensive FBI checks into me and all my family

In order to satisfy the Washington legislation, surely the DOL can verify if all that is true with Department of Homeland Security (USCIS) ?

I don’t think new legislation is necessary, just a change in verification method by the DOL

Yours faithfully