Hunters-Which One?

TPAW · April 7, 2006, 05:48 PM

For deer or black bear hunting in wooded areas with a possible 150 yard shot, which round would be best, a Ruger .44 Mag, or an SKS, 7.62x39 with a Wolf 158 grain SP, or Corbon 150 grain SP? Keep in mind, the 158 and 150 grain SP is said to be on par with a 30.30.

joshua · April 7, 2006, 05:59 PM

For deer I will pick the 7x62x39. I 'm not sure if I'd shoot a blackbear with it, it really depends on how big the blackbear is. When I was stationed in Maine I saw a blackbear while i was deer hunting and he looked to be in the 300+ lbs. I sure wouldn't feel comfortable shooting that bad boy with a 44 mag carbine or 7.62x39 pass 100 yards. If the range is less than 100 yards, I'd go with the 44 mag fired from a 18" carbine (at least) for both game. josh

Pointer · April 7, 2006, 08:31 PM

Don't like any of your choices for 150 yards...

EDIT...Be certain you are NOT using FMJ Military ammo...

30-06 Forever!

hoghunting · April 7, 2006, 09:41 PM

I wouldn't use either one for shots longer than 75 yds. The 7.62x39 is not equal to the 30/30, it has always been slower. Keep your shots close or buy another rifle.

mrawesome22 · April 8, 2006, 06:18 AM

I agree, neither. At 150 yards I'd probably go with a minimum of .270 Win. But a 30-06 would be perfect. Hell, when ain't it. LOL

chemist308 · April 8, 2006, 07:52 AM

44 Mag if it's a rifle. Otherwise the SKS, but switch off the semi auto feature--you want all the power you can get out of it. And keep the shots to about 100 yards--i've heard people on here say up to 4MOA with an SKS. You want a clean kill not a bear with 1 shot near the shoulder and 9 others in the rump. If the 44Mag is a revolver, why not carry both?

22-rimfire · April 8, 2006, 08:07 AM

Both calibers in rifles are 50-75 yd guns for deer sized game. For black bear, I would keep the shots under 50 yds. Bears are tough animals. My unsolicited feeling is the 7.62x39 is a battle rifle cartridge for people. If you want to be able to take 150 yd shots, get something in the 270-30-06 range. If bear is a more dominant potential quarry, I might consider a 300 win mag or 7mm rem.

Fremmer · April 8, 2006, 09:17 AM

Pointer forgot to say....."or the .308!"

quack fiend · April 8, 2006, 09:31 AM

the .44 or x39 is a handicap, get a .308/'06/.270 and kill everything in this country cleanly out to 300-400 yds.

rem33 · April 8, 2006, 09:37 AM

I agree with what is said above on the caliber choice, you really should have more power for this senaro but that said,,,,,, everytime I read a thread like this the most important thing seems to never comes up and that's shot placement. There is NO magic bullet caliber etc. yes you should use the caliber- bullet for the situation but put it where it counts means the most if you want good clean kills.

FMB42 · April 8, 2006, 03:00 PM

They can get to be pretty big from what I have seen. Also the 7.62x39s drop quite a bit past 100 or so yards. One of the new AK based .308s might be something to think about.

TPAW · April 8, 2006, 04:27 PM

Hoghunting

Quote:

The 7.62x39 is not equal to the 30/30, it has always been slower.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Wolf 158 grain is equal to the 30.30, and the Corbon 150 grain (a hotter round) is slightly better?

Old Time Hunter · April 8, 2006, 11:28 PM

The .44MAG with at least a 20" barrel would be marginal, the 7.62 would be a mistake. A .44 cal like the .444 Marlin would be perfect if limiting to 150-200 yds. Can't say in my bunch of years that I have seen much of black bear past 100yds much less 150yds. Also, look into a rifle chambered for the .450 Marlin, that should really do the job!

**44 AMP** · April 9, 2006, 12:38 AM

7.62x39 would not be my choice for either, especially from an SKS! Althoug the SKS is a fun rifle, my range experience tells me that it is generally not accurate enough for humane hunting of animals.

Would you use a .30-30? The 7.62x39 is quoted at 2200fps with a 129gr bullet. The 30-30 uses a 150 or 170 gr at that speed. How fast is the 150gr Wolf you mention? Is it hunting ammo?

Basically, if you wouldn't do it with a Winchester (Marlin) .30-30, you shouldn't try it with an SKS (or an AK), as far as the cartridge power is concerned. I have seen old lever guns that were tackdrivers compared to the combloc battle carbines. Minute of man is good enough for the battlefield, but game animals deserve more respect. They should by hit cleanly, precisely, humanely put down, and I don't trust the accuracy of the SKS at extended ranges. 50-75yards fine. 100, if your rifle proves itself, ok. 150? not for me.

The .44 Mag (rifle) has the energy of the .30-30, but beyond 100yards, tragectory becomes a big factor. Best out to 75 or so, but if you practice, 100, maybe a little more can be done cleanly.

For the record, I consider the .30-30 to be good to 100-150yards, if you practice.

Big-Foot · April 9, 2006, 05:51 AM

The Cor-Bon 150 gr SP at 2300 fps has the same velocity at 150 yds (2000 fps) as the Flat Nosed 30-30 150 which starts out faster. It should be just enough if the gun will group small enough.

I would not convert it to single shot, especially if I was hunting bears. No way.

And trajectory is a non issue. I assume FMB42 meant the 7.62 starts dropping too much at 200 yards.

Even from a carbine the 44 has half the energy at 150 yds. but it does have enough speed to open the pistol bullet.

I'd guess that the .30 bullet would be better due to penetration, but I have no experience hunting anything bigger than a aluminum can with a .44.

Picher · April 9, 2006, 11:20 AM

I totally agree that neither the 7.62x39, nor the 44 mag. are adequate for bear at 150 yards. The worse thing that could happen is a wounded, very ugly bear. Not a good thing to have to track down in close cover.

And you really have to kill it, otherwise it's a time bomb for anyone else who goes through the area; the "Cardinal Sin" of hunting!

The .30-06 is the best choice for bear out to 200, with the proper sighting system and in the hands of a good "game" shooter. I suggest you shoot other game first, to help you get seasoned to killing game, if you're not already. It's probably not a good idea to start with bears, possibly a very dangerous quarry, when wounded!

Picher

Art Eatman · April 9, 2006, 01:03 PM

Will those cartridges kill? Yeah. The issue of a clean, ethical and quick kill is another thing entirely. Purely my opinion, but I'd go with more potent cartridges.

Art

prime8 · April 9, 2006, 01:42 PM

300 Win Mag!!!!

youp · April 9, 2006, 03:27 PM

150 is a long way in the woods. If shooting bear over bait the range will be close, closer for a bear treed by hounds. Use good quality hunting bullets. Bears don't bleed very much, it will take a good tracker to find a mortally hit bear that makes it over a couple of hundred yards. Shoot lots of bullets into the bear. Good luck.

jaymag · April 9, 2006, 08:03 PM

To fmb42 you say there is drop at a 100yds.No way!My SKS hits a bad guy target at flat adjustment out at 250YDS with little drop.With the right placed shot,a 7.62x39 will end a black bear with a heart beat.If a well placed 9mm can kill a bear a high powerd rifle can.I have talked with rangers who have seen bears fall with 9mm and 45cal.

April 7, 2006, 05:48 PM	#1
TPAW Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 2,860	Hunters-Which One? For deer or black bear hunting in wooded areas with a possible 150 yard shot, which round would be best, a Ruger .44 Mag, or an SKS, 7.62x39 with a Wolf 158 grain SP, or Corbon 150 grain SP? Keep in mind, the 158 and 150 grain SP is said to be on par with a 30.30.

April 7, 2006, 08:31 PM	#3
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	Don't like any of your choices for 150 yards... EDIT...Be certain you are NOT using FMJ Military ammo... 30-06 Forever! __________________ . "Political correctness is tyranny with a happy face." Charlton Heston 30-06 FOREVER Last edited by Pointer; April 8, 2006 at 11:20 AM.

April 8, 2006, 07:52 AM	#6
chemist308 Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2005 Location: Pocono Mtns, PA Posts: 587	44 Mag if it's a rifle. Otherwise the SKS, but switch off the semi auto feature--you want all the power you can get out of it. And keep the shots to about 100 yards--i've heard people on here say up to 4MOA with an SKS. You want a clean kill not a bear with 1 shot near the shoulder and 9 others in the rump. If the 44Mag is a revolver, why not carry both? __________________ critters: the other red meat Live in PA? PA Firearms Owners Association

April 8, 2006, 09:37 AM	#10
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	bullets I agree with what is said above on the caliber choice, you really should have more power for this senaro but that said,,,,,, everytime I read a thread like this the most important thing seems to never comes up and that's shot placement. There is NO magic bullet caliber etc. yes you should use the caliber- bullet for the situation but put it where it counts means the most if you want good clean kills.

April 8, 2006, 03:00 PM	#11
FMB42 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2006 Posts: 215	7.62x39 is a little light for black bears. They can get to be pretty big from what I have seen. Also the 7.62x39s drop quite a bit past 100 or so yards. One of the new AK based .308s might be something to think about.

April 7, 2006, 05:59 PM	#2
joshua Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2004 Location: norCal Posts: 2,161	For deer I will pick the 7x62x39. I 'm not sure if I'd shoot a blackbear with it, it really depends on how big the blackbear is. When I was stationed in Maine I saw a blackbear while i was deer hunting and he looked to be in the 300+ lbs. I sure wouldn't feel comfortable shooting that bad boy with a 44 mag carbine or 7.62x39 pass 100 yards. If the range is less than 100 yards, I'd go with the 44 mag fired from a 18" carbine (at least) for both game. josh

April 7, 2006, 09:41 PM	#4
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	I wouldn't use either one for shots longer than 75 yds. The 7.62x39 is not equal to the 30/30, it has always been slower. Keep your shots close or buy another rifle.

April 8, 2006, 06:18 AM	#5
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	I agree, neither. At 150 yards I'd probably go with a minimum of .270 Win. But a 30-06 would be perfect. Hell, when ain't it. LOL

April 8, 2006, 08:07 AM	#7
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	Both calibers in rifles are 50-75 yd guns for deer sized game. For black bear, I would keep the shots under 50 yds. Bears are tough animals. My unsolicited feeling is the 7.62x39 is a battle rifle cartridge for people. If you want to be able to take 150 yd shots, get something in the 270-30-06 range. If bear is a more dominant potential quarry, I might consider a 300 win mag or 7mm rem.

April 8, 2006, 09:17 AM	#8
Fremmer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,482	Pointer forgot to say....."or the .308!"

April 8, 2006, 09:31 AM	#9
quack fiend Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2005 Location: liberty, ms Posts: 268	the .44 or x39 is a handicap, get a .308/'06/.270 and kill everything in this country cleanly out to 300-400 yds.

April 8, 2006, 11:28 PM	#13
Old Time Hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2006 Location: Hinterlands of Wisconsin Posts: 488	The .44MAG with at least a 20" barrel would be marginal, the 7.62 would be a mistake. A .44 cal like the .444 Marlin would be perfect if limiting to 150-200 yds. Can't say in my bunch of years that I have seen much of black bear past 100yds much less 150yds. Also, look into a rifle chambered for the .450 Marlin, that should really do the job!

April 9, 2006, 12:38 AM	#14
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,876	7.62x39? not me 7.62x39 would not be my choice for either, especially from an SKS! Althoug the SKS is a fun rifle, my range experience tells me that it is generally not accurate enough for humane hunting of animals. Would you use a .30-30? The 7.62x39 is quoted at 2200fps with a 129gr bullet. The 30-30 uses a 150 or 170 gr at that speed. How fast is the 150gr Wolf you mention? Is it hunting ammo? Basically, if you wouldn't do it with a Winchester (Marlin) .30-30, you shouldn't try it with an SKS (or an AK), as far as the cartridge power is concerned. I have seen old lever guns that were tackdrivers compared to the combloc battle carbines. Minute of man is good enough for the battlefield, but game animals deserve more respect. They should by hit cleanly, precisely, humanely put down, and I don't trust the accuracy of the SKS at extended ranges. 50-75yards fine. 100, if your rifle proves itself, ok. 150? not for me. The .44 Mag (rifle) has the energy of the .30-30, but beyond 100yards, tragectory becomes a big factor. Best out to 75 or so, but if you practice, 100, maybe a little more can be done cleanly. For the record, I consider the .30-30 to be good to 100-150yards, if you practice.

April 9, 2006, 05:51 AM	#15
Big-Foot Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 404	If it's all I had I would, but no further than 150 yds The Cor-Bon 150 gr SP at 2300 fps has the same velocity at 150 yds (2000 fps) as the Flat Nosed 30-30 150 which starts out faster. It should be just enough if the gun will group small enough. I would not convert it to single shot, especially if I was hunting bears. No way. And trajectory is a non issue. I assume FMB42 meant the 7.62 starts dropping too much at 200 yards. Even from a carbine the 44 has half the energy at 150 yds. but it does have enough speed to open the pistol bullet. I'd guess that the .30 bullet would be better due to penetration, but I have no experience hunting anything bigger than a aluminum can with a .44.

April 9, 2006, 11:20 AM	#16
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,695	I totally agree that neither the 7.62x39, nor the 44 mag. are adequate for bear at 150 yards. The worse thing that could happen is a wounded, very ugly bear. Not a good thing to have to track down in close cover. And you really have to kill it, otherwise it's a time bomb for anyone else who goes through the area; the "Cardinal Sin" of hunting! The .30-06 is the best choice for bear out to 200, with the proper sighting system and in the hands of a good "game" shooter. I suggest you shoot other game first, to help you get seasoned to killing game, if you're not already. It's probably not a good idea to start with bears, possibly a very dangerous quarry, when wounded! Picher

April 9, 2006, 01:03 PM	#17
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Will those cartridges kill? Yeah. The issue of a clean, ethical and quick kill is another thing entirely. Purely my opinion, but I'd go with more potent cartridges. Art

April 9, 2006, 01:42 PM	#18
prime8 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: In a tent in Iowa Posts: 434	Niether 300 Win Mag!!!!

April 9, 2006, 03:27 PM	#19
youp Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Location: south of Canada, eh? Posts: 438	150 is a long way in the woods. If shooting bear over bait the range will be close, closer for a bear treed by hounds. Use good quality hunting bullets. Bears don't bleed very much, it will take a good tracker to find a mortally hit bear that makes it over a couple of hundred yards. Shoot lots of bullets into the bear. Good luck. __________________ Use enough gun.

April 9, 2006, 08:03 PM	#20
jaymag Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2005 Location: springfield,MA Posts: 239	fmb42 To fmb42 you say there is drop at a 100yds.No way!My SKS hits a bad guy target at flat adjustment out at 250YDS with little drop.With the right placed shot,a 7.62x39 will end a black bear with a heart beat.If a well placed 9mm can kill a bear a high powerd rifle can.I have talked with rangers who have seen bears fall with 9mm and 45cal.