44 Special vs. 357 Magnum - Page 2

5whiskey · April 20, 2024, 09:14 PM

Hmmm... I see it as a wash personally. I am still kind of a "start with a bigger hole" guy... but I think you would be fine with either caliber. For me it would come down to the gun i liked best honestly.

The Verminator · April 21, 2024, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I've yet to buy a Taurus that was more than $500 and wasn't worth it. Just got another one today, 9mm snub and I swear the lockup keeps getting tighter each time I buy one!

That's good to know.

Sounds like quality is improving.

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2024, 12:32 PM

My old Lyman manual shows a few loads in .44 Special that break 1,000fps with a 240-250ish bullet from a 5.5" Colt SAA.

If they did it then, you can do it now. If you can do it in a Colt, you can do it in a Ruger.

If you were limited to factory ammo, I would choose the .357 (though not the exact one you're looking at).

You handload. Choose the GUN you like better. The rest will follow.

44caliberkid · April 21, 2024, 01:03 PM

If I interpret the OP’s post correctly, he already has the two guns he mentioned. He’s not looking for recommendations for other pistols, just which one he already has, to carry.

Drm50 · April 21, 2024, 01:20 PM

I got 7 S&W .357s, 2 S&W 44specials and 3 S&Ws & Colt 45. I can’t make up my mind between 44sp & 45Colt but definitely better choice than 357 in my opinion. I shot cast in everything and just duplication of original loads for velocity. DA is no advantage to me only shoot SA. I have taken deer with 44Sp & 45Colt and shots at 0 to 50yds are almost always through & through. My guns are 6” & 5.5” for Colt, much more pleasant on both ears and recoil.

ligonierbill · April 21, 2024, 04:21 PM

Glad this generated so much discussion, but I guess I should provide "the rest of the story". I bought the GP-100 because I was interested in the question, "Does the 357 Sig really match the 357 Mag from a 4" revolver?" Yes! And I proved this to myself with a Sig 226 that is probably my favorite bottom feeder. Not only that, but the Ruger carries nicely in a high ride forward cant holster. The 44 I bought on a whim when I saw it on GB for a decent price. It rides in an El Paso Saddlery cowboy rig. Fairly comfortable also.

Loads...While the 125 JHP is the mankiller, in the woods I carry 158 XTP or GDHP at 1,300 fps. Still working on the 44, but for this medium frame BH, I stop a little short of the "Skeeter" load, with a 240 Hunters Supply at 936 and various 200s a bit over 1,000. If I need more, I do have a 7 1/2" BH 45 that runs thermonuclear loads at the expense of my middle finger knuckle. If I need more than that, I have a Super Redhawk in 480 Ruger.

To me, "general purpose" means a pistol to take a target of opportunity (coyote?), defend myself, or just make noise when I break my ankle on the mountain. If I was worried about bipedal varmints, I'd take one of my bottom feeders. If bears (or more likely moose out West) I'd take one of the cannons.

I think I'll put the 357 on the block.

The Verminator · April 21, 2024, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ligonierbill

I'm not much of a pistoleer, but sometimes I carry a general purpose revolver in the woods. (Since I grew up in Pennsylvania and hunt there, it has to be a revolver.) The competitors are a Ruger Blackhawk "Flattop" 5 1/2" 44 Special and a Ruger GP-100 4" 357 Magnum. The 357 is more powerful by a third, but the Flattop sends a bigger bullet. It's also lighter and handier. I'm leaning towards the 44, but that's the debate. I should mention that I always shoot the GP-100 single action, so that advantage is mute.

What do you think?

Did you say that semi auto pistols are illegal in the woods of Pennsylvania?

ligonierbill · April 21, 2024, 04:40 PM

Can't hunt with one. If it's human varmints you're concerned about, not a problem.

The Verminator · April 21, 2024, 05:06 PM

Ok, thanks.

georgehwbush · April 21, 2024, 06:57 PM

this is just a question from an non-pistol guy, is there a good reason to go 44spl rather than 44mag and shoot 44spl ammo in the magnum ?

The Verminator · April 21, 2024, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgehwbush

this is just a question from an non-pistol guy, is there a good reason to go 44spl rather than 44mag and shoot 44spl ammo in the magnum ?

Yes.

The .44 Mag handgun is always bigger and heavier.

Shooting the shorter case in the longer chamber can cause some problems if careful cleaning is not done.

The extra power of the .44 Magnum is not worth choosing it over the Special when the Special is handloaded to max.

georgehwbush · April 21, 2024, 08:15 PM

ok.

74A95 · April 21, 2024, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Verminator

The .44 Mag handgun is always bigger and heavier.

What's the difference in weight when built on the same frame?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Verminator

Shooting the shorter case in the longer chamber can cause some problems if careful cleaning is not done.

It's just a cleaning issue, and even if the chamber is dirty it doesn't mean you can't always get a 44 Mag seated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Verminator

The extra power of the .44 Magnum is not worth choosing it over the Special when the Special is handloaded to max.

There's only so much you can get from a max pressure of 15,500 psi (44 Special) compared to a max pressure of 36,000 psi (44 Magnum).

bamaranger · April 21, 2024, 10:55 PM

For me, a 4" bbl carries much easier then anything longer. It depends on the holster to a large degree of course. I think my Single Six is 5-1/2" , but it is a bit more svelte than a Blackhawk. None the less, it rides in a crossdraw flap holster, butt forward on my off side. The sleek Six, and both the 6" N-frames I've had over the years, never carried well for me on strong side hip holsters.

For a number of years, I carried a 4" Security Six as a GP woods gun, loaded with 158 gr LSWC and enough Unique to get an honest 1000 fps. I still use that load in my 4-5/8" Blackhawk, which rides in GI style aviator holster when I select that revolver to wander about.

Pumpkin · April 22, 2024, 06:19 AM

I used to have several 44spl’s and always thought it was one of the mildest big bore calibers to shoot. My only complaint was that CCI unlike in the 38/357 calibers only offered their shot shells in the magnum .44. I got around this by getting some CCI capsules and rolling my own 44spl shot shells. Very effective on copperheads, N frame 44spl’s are still some of my favorite revolver’s, so graceful and well balanced.

The Verminator · April 22, 2024, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

What's the difference in weight when built on the same frame?
There's only so much you can get from a max pressure of 15,500 psi (44 Special) compared to a max pressure of 36,000 psi (44 Magnum).

Well, they're not usually built on the same frame. That's the whole point.

As for power, I've never felt that I've needed the full power of the Magnum.

The .44 Special is plenty potent in good handloads........have you read Elmer Keith?

74A95 · April 22, 2024, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Verminator

Well, they're not usually built on the same frame. That's the whole point.

As for power, I've never felt that I've needed the full power of the Magnum.

The .44 Special is plenty potent in good handloads........have you read Elmer Keith?

Which company makes both that are not on the same frame?

I've read Keith. Are you advising people to load the 44 Special past SAAMI pressure limits to be fired in 44 Special revolvers? Sounds like a dangerous road to go down, with real liability concerns.

People can wildcat anything, and that includes the 44 Magnum. Buffalo Bore loads 44 Magnum +P and +P+.

rclark · April 22, 2024, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Which company makes both that are not on the same frame?

Ruger. The .44 Special Flattop is on the medium frame, the .44 Mag is on the large frame. Prefer the .44 Special Flattop any day.... And 'this' .44 Special can be loaded beyond SAAMI .44 Special power levels, but not to full .44 Magnum level. Of course, you understand, you do have to 'read between the lines' in your 'research'

...

Quote:

...with real liability concerns.

That of course is your opinion... Some of us do believe in personal responsibility for the loads we use ... Research is key...

The Verminator · April 22, 2024, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

Which company makes both that are not on the same frame?

I've read Keith. Are you advising people to load the 44 Special past SAAMI pressure limits to be fired in 44 Special revolvers? Sounds like a dangerous road to go down, with real liability concerns.

People can wildcat anything, and that includes the 44 Magnum. Buffalo Bore loads 44 Magnum +P and +P+.

The point is that there are choices to be made to get a .44 Special that is lighter than a .44 Magnum. I'm not going to start researching it.

As for reloading, I'm not advising anything except common sense.

jetinteriorguy · April 22, 2024, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

Which company makes both that are not on the same frame?

I've read Keith. Are you advising people to load the 44 Special past SAAMI pressure limits to be fired in 44 Special revolvers? Sounds like a dangerous road to go down, with real liability concerns.

People can wildcat anything, and that includes the 44 Magnum. Buffalo Bore loads 44 Magnum +P and +P+.

Various Charter Arms models and Ruger GP-100 revolvers are available in 44sp on smaller lighter frames that aren’t available in 44magnum.

Pumpkin · April 22, 2024, 09:35 PM

I don’t think anyone wants to be throwing 240grs of lead 1000fps out of a Bulldog!

georgehwbush · April 22, 2024, 11:05 PM

people, people; i didn't mean to open a can of worms.

i only asked if the op had a reason for choosing spl over mag.
they did and i'm satisfied. thank you.

The Verminator · April 23, 2024, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

I don’t think anyone wants to be throwing 240grs of lead 1000fps out of a Bulldog!

That probably depends on the threat they're facing.......if it's big and deadly they'll be glad to have 240 grains available.

However, just to be helpful.........THIS might alleviate your fears on that issue.

This is a really neat gun. Old Hitch just loves it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=s%26...Y56F1VtcM,st:0

Pumpkin · April 23, 2024, 10:46 AM

Pretty far from a Bulldog…….
My point was that all common 44spl’s are not created equally.
The 69 Smith, a 44 Magnum (a great woods companion depending upon your location) is a totally different animal than what the OP originally was asking opinions about.

The Verminator · April 23, 2024, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Pretty far from a Bulldog…….
My point was that all common 44spl’s are not created equally.
The 69 Smith, a 44 Magnum (a great woods companion depending upon your location) is a totally different animal than what the OP originally was asking opinions about.

No.

You have to read more carefully.

The link is about the Model 696, not the 69.

April 20, 2024, 09:14 PM	#26
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,667	Hmmm... I see it as a wash personally. I am still kind of a "start with a bigger hole" guy... but I think you would be fine with either caliber. For me it would come down to the gun i liked best honestly. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

April 21, 2024, 12:32 PM	#28
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,909	My old Lyman manual shows a few loads in .44 Special that break 1,000fps with a 240-250ish bullet from a 5.5" Colt SAA. If they did it then, you can do it now. If you can do it in a Colt, you can do it in a Ruger. If you were limited to factory ammo, I would choose the .357 (though not the exact one you're looking at). You handload. Choose the GUN you like better. The rest will follow. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 21, 2024, 06:57 PM	#35
georgehwbush Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 211	this is just a question from an non-pistol guy, is there a good reason to go 44spl rather than 44mag and shoot 44spl ammo in the magnum ? __________________ "if you have a good shooting stance, you are not using cover correctly" father frog

April 21, 2024, 08:15 PM	#37
georgehwbush Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 211	ok. __________________ "if you have a good shooting stance, you are not using cover correctly" father frog

April 21, 2024, 10:55 PM	#39
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,332	GP revolver For me, a 4" bbl carries much easier then anything longer. It depends on the holster to a large degree of course. I think my Single Six is 5-1/2" , but it is a bit more svelte than a Blackhawk. None the less, it rides in a crossdraw flap holster, butt forward on my off side. The sleek Six, and both the 6" N-frames I've had over the years, never carried well for me on strong side hip holsters. For a number of years, I carried a 4" Security Six as a GP woods gun, loaded with 158 gr LSWC and enough Unique to get an honest 1000 fps. I still use that load in my 4-5/8" Blackhawk, which rides in GI style aviator holster when I select that revolver to wander about.

April 21, 2024, 01:03 PM	#29
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,111	If I interpret the OP’s post correctly, he already has the two guns he mentioned. He’s not looking for recommendations for other pistols, just which one he already has, to carry.

April 21, 2024, 01:20 PM	#30
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,382	I got 7 S&W .357s, 2 S&W 44specials and 3 S&Ws & Colt 45. I can’t make up my mind between 44sp & 45Colt but definitely better choice than 357 in my opinion. I shot cast in everything and just duplication of original loads for velocity. DA is no advantage to me only shoot SA. I have taken deer with 44Sp & 45Colt and shots at 0 to 50yds are almost always through & through. My guns are 6” & 5.5” for Colt, much more pleasant on both ears and recoil.

April 21, 2024, 04:21 PM	#31
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,464	Glad this generated so much discussion, but I guess I should provide "the rest of the story". I bought the GP-100 because I was interested in the question, "Does the 357 Sig really match the 357 Mag from a 4" revolver?" Yes! And I proved this to myself with a Sig 226 that is probably my favorite bottom feeder. Not only that, but the Ruger carries nicely in a high ride forward cant holster. The 44 I bought on a whim when I saw it on GB for a decent price. It rides in an El Paso Saddlery cowboy rig. Fairly comfortable also. Loads...While the 125 JHP is the mankiller, in the woods I carry 158 XTP or GDHP at 1,300 fps. Still working on the 44, but for this medium frame BH, I stop a little short of the "Skeeter" load, with a 240 Hunters Supply at 936 and various 200s a bit over 1,000. If I need more, I do have a 7 1/2" BH 45 that runs thermonuclear loads at the expense of my middle finger knuckle. If I need more than that, I have a Super Redhawk in 480 Ruger. To me, "general purpose" means a pistol to take a target of opportunity (coyote?), defend myself, or just make noise when I break my ankle on the mountain. If I was worried about bipedal varmints, I'd take one of my bottom feeders. If bears (or more likely moose out West) I'd take one of the cannons. I think I'll put the 357 on the block.

April 21, 2024, 04:40 PM	#33
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,464	Can't hunt with one. If it's human varmints you're concerned about, not a problem.

April 21, 2024, 05:06 PM	#34
The Verminator Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2013 Location: Minnesota Posts: 350	Ok, thanks.

April 22, 2024, 06:19 AM	#40
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 454	I used to have several 44spl’s and always thought it was one of the mildest big bore calibers to shoot. My only complaint was that CCI unlike in the 38/357 calibers only offered their shot shells in the magnum .44. I got around this by getting some CCI capsules and rolling my own 44spl shot shells. Very effective on copperheads, N frame 44spl’s are still some of my favorite revolver’s, so graceful and well balanced.

April 22, 2024, 09:35 PM	#46
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 454	I don’t think anyone wants to be throwing 240grs of lead 1000fps out of a Bulldog!

April 22, 2024, 11:05 PM	#47
georgehwbush Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 211	people, people; i didn't mean to open a can of worms. i only asked if the op had a reason for choosing spl over mag. they did and i'm satisfied. thank you. __________________ "if you have a good shooting stance, you are not using cover correctly" father frog

April 23, 2024, 10:46 AM	#49
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 454	Pretty far from a Bulldog……. My point was that all common 44spl’s are not created equally. The 69 Smith, a 44 Magnum (a great woods companion depending upon your location) is a totally different animal than what the OP originally was asking opinions about.