Get real on Taurus quality!

[Qwiks draw]

Well said JohnKSa. Excellent point.
When one has nothing to hang their hat on, "manufacture it" seems to be the mantra. So they gotta keep trying.

Just got done praising Ruger, S&W, Walther,Bersa,Taurus, and Beretta in another thread here at this particular board.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=266596
Others beat me to some of the other brands.
Just behave in a civilized manner as we're all in this together.

[Rasputin]

Avenger11

Taurus, Glock and Walther are mass produced weapons, made with cheap materials to achieve a price point that will appeal to the less informed consumer.
Once you have experienced real quality of a Sig, HK,Kimber, or Freedom Arms, then you will understand!

If you think Glock and Walther Are Cheap You Really Don't Know Too much.

JohnKSa

First of all, the only maker you listed that could be considered to make non-mass produced weapons would be Freedom Arms.

Second, you left off a bunch of other gun makers who make mass-produced firearms.

Thirdly, Taurus, Glock and Walther are hardly the gunmakers I would pick out of a line-up as the three most interested in making guns with "cheap materials to achieve a price point that will appeal to the less informed consumer."

Its nice To See Somebody Actually Knows What There talking About, W/o Babbling All Over This Thread In Ignorance.



I Think I'm Going To Quote ranburr

Avenger11, your knowledge is lacking.

[ghalleen]

I really don't understand the motivation of all the Taurus bashers. I don't particularly like S&W, but I don't bash them. I didn't like the fact that they placed the firing pin on the hammer in their older revolvers, and never got over that dislike.

I'm not a fan of Kahr, either, but I don't bash them. I figure some people like them, some people don't. That's why we have a choice in what we buy.

I like Taurus. So far, after several guns, I've never been let down. I like the way they feel and shoot. I don't buy them because they're cheap -- they're not. They are less expensive than some other handguns. I buy them because I like them.

FWIW, I also like other guns. I like Colt (revolvers and semis), Ruger (revolvers), Beretta, Dan Wesson, and more. But I also like Taurus.

If you don't like them, don't buy them. I won't call you stupid for buying something I don't particularly care for. Don't call me stupid for buying what I like.

Do you hear that, Avenger?

[gandog56]

Taurus, Glock and Walther are mass produced weapons, made with cheap materials to achieve a price point that will appeal to the less informed consumer.
Once you have experienced real quality of a Sig, HK,Kimber, or Freedom Arms, then you will understand!

That's all fine and well.......if you can afford them. Are Taurus guns the best in the world? Of course not. But they don't charge you an arm and a leg to get one. And they definitely don't charge you an arm and a leg just for a brand name that is actually no better quality. Sure, I would love a Freedom Arms .357. Am I going to pay 1000 bucks for one, when a 350 dollar Taurus will do the job almost as well?

[03Shadowbob]

Taurus, Glock and Walther are mass produced weapons, made with cheap materials to achieve a price point that will appeal to the less informed consumer.
Once you have experienced real quality of a Sig, HK,Kimber, or Freedom Arms, then you will understand!

LOL, that first sentence is the most ignorant thing I have read today, especially about the Glock and Walther.

Kimber has their QC issues. Sig, I agree is a fine and beautiful firearm. HKs are fine weapons but share their looks with a Hi-point (IMO).

[Colin Doyle]

Originally Posted by gandog56

Sure, I would love a Freedom Arms .357. Am I going to pay 1000 bucks for one, when a 350 dollar Taurus will do the job almost as well?

Not to mention, are you really going to be willing to toss that $1,000 .357 on the ground when the cops confront you after a SD encounter? No thanks.

[Avenger11]

My point in starting this thread was to demonstrate my belief in the age old adage "You get what you pay for". Simply put, whether your talking about firearms, cars, electronics, clothes or any other product, there is a close relationship between price and quality.
Sure some brands can command a premium price because they have a history and reputation for quality, and they can because they have earned it.
Is a $3000 custom 1911 worth 6 times more than a $500 mass produced gun? Maybe not. But conversely, the quality difference will be recognizable and obvious!
I admit my only experience with a Taurus product was when I purchased a PT1911. I fell for the hype and advertising that was saturating the gun mags that Taurus, in order to enter the highly competitive 1911 market, was offering features worth $2000 for $550.
What I received was a 1911 wanabee. Metal finish very thin, plastic grips made of really cheap materials, and internals poorly machined.Accuracy was average at best and it jammed repeatedly.
Did I send it back to the factory? No, I expect it to work as advertised. Sold it, took the hit and considered it a lesson learned!
Since some here can't handle opposing opinions or diversity of thought, this will be my last response to anything Taurus related.

[hot sauce]

I think the reason people bash taurus so much is because they are looked at as "knock-off's". I thought my Taurus 92 would be a cheaper gun to train with and avoid shooting thousand's of round's with my my Beretta 92 Inox. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

[chaim]

People bash Taurus as junk because there are some highly publicized failures on the internet. Yet...

Kimber is quality defined, even though the original (and some later) Series II pistols had some major problems and just about everyone seems to agree that their quality has taken a severe hit over the years.

Glock is sheer reliability, despite the highly publicized kB issue (which is myth or overblown according to most people).

CZ is the poor man's SIG, yet they use some cheaper internal materials and have poor internal fit and finish, weak springs, and teething problems aren't uncommon.

SIG is the best, though some 220s have had problems.

Ruger is reliability defined, though the P345 had huge issues when it first came out (some say they are fixed, some say they aren't), the new 9mm seems to be similar, and both have a very poorly designed mag disconnect that can completely disable the pistol if you dryfire without the mag.

Walther is incredible, yet PPKs are notorious for issues.

I can go on.

Every manufacturer has issues, yet only Taurus is decried as junk and those of us (the vast majority) with good ones are just lucky. The others, they are given a pass since "everyone puts out a lemon once in a while."


As for personal experience, I had a Taurus 82 (stupidly sold, but no reliability problems) and a Taurus 605 (didn't like .357mag out of a small snub) and I have a Taurus 85CH and a PT140 Millennium Pro. The 605 had the least use of all of these with around 500 rounds. The Millennium Pro and 85CH (my current guns) have definitely had well over 1000 rounds but I haven't counted (at least past 700 or so) so I don't know if they are at 2K or 5K. None of these guns have had any reliability issues. The trigger on my 85CH is smooth and crisp (I wish I could say that for my S&W 442). My Millennium Pro is one of few of my autos with a respectable round count through it with no bobbles (the others are a S&W 1911SC and a SIG 229- my NAA Guardian hasn't had any issues yet, but it hasn't been shot much). Meanwhile, my CZ has had a few (and my best friend's has had a bunch, I also knew a guy, since deceased, who had CZ replace his it was so bad and the replacement was trouble too), I had a Ruger KP89 which was completely inaccurate and a Ruger KP345 which was the worst piece of junk imaginable, my SIG 226 (while a great gun) had a couple bobbles before I figured out that they like to run much wetter (much more greased or oiled) than my other guns, my S&W 65LS (while a great gun) is spitting lead (in its defense, it has a lot of rounds through it), etc.

Do a search to see what actual owners of PT92s and 1911s say, most are quite pleased. Heck, most owners of any Taurus seem to usually be pretty happy. Does Taurus, like anyone, occasionally put out a bad example? Of course. Do they have a lifetime warranty, unlike most, so whenever in the life of your gun if you have trouble it can be fixed for free? Yes. Does everyone else have a lifetime warranty or do you pay for repairs? Few have lifetime warranties so after a year or two repairs are on you. Do most owners never need the warranty? It seems so, I know I've had a few and never needed the warranty.

If you don't like Taurus, fine. I'm not a big fan of Glocks and Ruger autos, so I don't buy them (with Ruger, I don't buy them anymore). If you had a bad one, I'm sorry to hear that. It is fine to tell people about it, but try to be more objective ("I had a bad one that did xyz", not "all Taurus are junk"). If you are thinking about buying one, or own one already, and are concerned that the bashers may be right- DON'T BE. Your gun should make a fine defensive arm, don't be swayed by the haters.

[Jacobie]

My Pt111 that I am sending in for repair has a wird problem were I have to pull the trigger twice. It fires on the second pull, but not the first. Any ideas on what the problem is?

[P5 Guy]

Any time I'm at the range and I over hear people talking about Taurus firearms the conversation is always about sending them away to be repaired or the gun just came back from being repaired. I've never owned a Taurus so I can't say how they work, but I've never had to send any of the firearms I do own for repair.

[gandog56]

Yet I still have a 22 year old Taurus 66 .357 Magnum that has never ever needed to go to customer service, and after I would bet, at least 20000 rounds, still puts them in the 10 spot.

Which should prove that the best customer service......is never needing customer service.

[Ace_Breaker]

I'll just state the facts so I don't get accused of bashing.

Taurus 85 CH, took it home, found that it had a firing pin broken and returned it the same day of purchase.

Taurus 85 CH stainless. Worked for a year, hammer spring went out. Sent to factory for service. Got it back in about 10 days and it has worked fine since.

PT-145 Cleaned and lubed it. Took it for it's first shooting and it jammed right away. Jammed at about round 54. Round 55 caused the extractor retaining pin to jump up and out of the slide, extractor spring went flying somewhere and I could not find it, the extractor came off.

3 Taurus weapons sent back to the shops out of 3. My buddy had a PT92. I loved the gun and think it was their best model.

[BAGTIC]

I have several Taurus handguns both revolver and auto, rimfire and centerfire.

I have never had a malfunction with any of them.

While it is possible for anyone to get a bad gun of any brand whenever I hear some one who obviously gets his kicks from beating dead horses I suspect a hidden agenda. It is like the people who like to bash WalMart, certain politicians, certain organizations and then you discover the real reason for their discontent.

[Thunderhawk88]

When someone posts "Once you have fired a ______ ($800+ brand) you would never buy a ______ ($300 to $600 brand)" I read it as "Look at what I got!". Just Brand snobishness.
I have handguns that cost $300 and ones that cost $800. Doesn't matter, they all go BOOM!

[Qwiks draw]

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=898.0
Snobs is right. Just because they have Kimbers doesn't mean instant snobbery.
Using snobbery however and having Kimbers doesn't help the brand and the owners at all.
Same goes for any brand,make,or model.

[Sturmgewehre]

Kimber owners being snobs against PT1911 owners? LOL!!! That's rich. To be honest you're probably better off with a PT1911 than anything Kimber offers.

[ghalleen]

I don't have a Kimber, but my understanding is they've had a rough couple of years, with several quality issues.

My best friend is LEO, and was the first to tell me about it. He owns two Kimbers and has been very happy with one and very unhappy with the other. Tells me he wants to try Para's LDA instead.

About a year ago I visited the local gun store and was looking at 1911's. The gunsmith there suggested I avoid Kimber and get a Colt instead. He also quoted quality issues lately.

Are Kimbers junk? No way. No one will say that. Each and every handgun manufacturer has had challenges from time to time. Taurus has, as well.

I've had four different Tauruses. Three revolvers (.357 and .454 Casull) and one PT1911. I've had no problems with any of them. However, as I've said before, my Glock and one of my Walthers both needed repairs.

[IMTHDUKE]

Bought my first Taurus ....the Judge....safety locked up due to...not sure....at first firing.....so the jury is still out on the judge as far as I am concerned.