READ BEFORE POSTING! World Trade Center Terror Attack? - Page 9

HankB · September 11, 2001, 01:36 PM

God bless those who died in this nauseating act of cowardice. My deepest sympathy to those who lost loved ones. Words fail to express what I feel...

The first order of business in the investigation is to check airport security personnel at the airports these filghts originated. There HAVE to have been terrorists on the ground who infiltrated ground operations - maybe years ago - at the airports to enable so many hijackers access all at the same time. There have been stories - lots of them over the years - about lax security, non-existent background checks, etc. The scum obviously exploited these holes in security.

And not to be paranoid . . . they may not have fled, and in fact they may still be there.

Dennis · September 11, 2001, 01:47 PM

All,
I must sign off for now. Going to work.
Please keep conjecture and posturing to a minimum and give validity (and sources) of information when possible.

Thank you so much for your calm, professional conduct during the period of these heinous attacks. I salute you.

Keith Rogan · September 11, 2001, 01:47 PM

To give everyone an idea of how tightly the air traffic is locked down, I'm sitting here in Kodiak Alaska across the street from a lake where float planes are based. I just spoke to a friend at one of these charter outfits. We're at the tail end of a three day storm and there are dozens (perhaps as many as hundred) people stuck out in the bush at remote fishing and hunting sites. Many of them are already overdue for pickup because of the weather and yet the FAA is not allowing even these small planes to fly out for these people!

I hope this doesn't go too long, doubtless somebody out there is running out of insulin or heart meds or something of that nature...

Dr.Rob · September 11, 2001, 01:50 PM

A friend of mine working 35 floors high over WTC (in the JP Morgan bldg) saw the second plane hit. She was evacuated over the brooklyn bridge and saw the second tower fall from there. Have a several more friends unaccounted for as of yet, one in the NYFD.
Hope they made it out.

If you have friends/relatives in NYC who have net access, thats how i got ahold of my friends.

Hope you are all safe, god knows this morning watching this stuff live I thought "the balloon is going up" cooler head prevailing now.. but I'm deeply saddened and shocked. I was there in january.. its hard to imagine.

Pray, give blood and stay tuned.

Smiley · September 11, 2001, 01:52 PM

God help Us. And God have mercy on those that did this becuase I surely won't.

To everyone out there. Its time to wake the giant and finally do something worthwhile.

dinosaur · September 11, 2001, 01:53 PM

Remember, I`m in Pa. Even though I`m on disability I`m sure I could man a phone and free up an able bodied officer. I can`t even give blood because I`m a heart patient. As frustrated as many of you TFL`ers are, it`s nothing compared to how I feel. Many of you can give blood though. I`ve done it many times and it`ll come back to you, believe me.

I have volunteered my services such as they are to the local P.D. but no word yet. I hope it`s not needed but we should be prepared.

Point Blank · September 11, 2001, 02:00 PM

Maybe we should ditch the seperation of church and state phrase.The goverment wants to run this country without God's help and protection,then something like this happens and they urge us to pray for America. Lesson:Get God involved,keep God involved, cant go wrong.

HET · September 11, 2001, 02:02 PM

One important thing we all need to do is PRAY!!
For all the families and friends that were lost today.
And that we find them that did this to our country men, women and children.

BTW
My Unit Reserve Center is at THREATCON DELTA. So I assume all military installations are at this level.

Drundel · September 11, 2001, 02:05 PM

From CNN.com:

Quote:

1:44 p.m.: The Pentagon says five battleships and two aircraft carriers will leave the U.S. Naval Station in Norfolk, Virginia, and head to positions in the New York area and along the East Coast. The carriers are to provide upgraded air defense for the New York and Washington areas.

5 BB?!?!? I didn't think we had 1 active, let alone 5.

Covert Mission · September 11, 2001, 02:07 PM

re ATTICUS's comment: "...but "IMHO" this has Saddam written all over it. This involved multiple hijackers who were capable of flying commercial jets..."

I agree. Even if it was Osama Bin Laden's network who drew the blueprints and orchestrated the attack, but it's entirely feasible that they had state-sponsorship from someone, regarding resources and training (like training terrorists to fly commercial planes). I would bet heavily on Saddam for this, if true. Even down to counterfeiting documents like US passports to get these people into the US... Iraq would have the technology to do that. bin Laden would be just the hit-men for hire. In fact, as I've just typed this, former head of the CIA James Woolsey has said the exact same thing on CNN... it just makes sense.

t-man · September 11, 2001, 02:08 PM

Point Blank:
Great point. Seems everyone gets religous at times like these (as they should, but seems like we all could be a little more 'prayed up' even before these horrible things happen)

On another note: I had been feeling 'bad' that 2 weeks ago I spent money on another pistol. Now I'm feeling a little better about it. Not to say that the world is coming to an end, but it goes to show how one determined person, or small groups of people can turn the whole world's lives into complete chaos!

May God bless America, our President and all the fine folks at TFL!

t-man

Fezwig · September 11, 2001, 02:10 PM

Drundel, I am sure they meant "Warships", not "Battleships". Hell, to them they are probably the same thing.

Fezwig

Pendragon · September 11, 2001, 02:21 PM

I have to wonder if this will shake a lot of people out of their defacto hoplophobia/pacifism.

We all went to bed feeling invincible as a nation - and we wake up to this.

I think much of the modern attitude about weapons and violence comes from being so insulated and that feeling that nothing can happen - having weapons and CCWs, etc makes people think about things they dont want to think about.

I wonder if this will change somewhat - hopefully for the better.

Seeker · September 11, 2001, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Maybe we should ditch the seperation of church and state phrase.The goverment wants to run this country without God's help and protection,then something like this happens and they urge us to pray for America. Lesson:Get God involved,keep God involved, cant go wrong.

Whose god? I am not a Christian and I don't want my government run by any particular religious group.

Throwing out some of our basic principles at a time like this is wrong and not productive. If it makes you feel better then by all means pray to your god or gods, but don't force your god on me via the government.

I am hearing people on TV say that we should put the military in charge of Airport security, with automatic weapons like they do in Europe. This is reactionism. How would more armed guards have prevented this? Did the terrorists rush the gates? Jump over x-ray machines? Run around metal detectors? No, it sounds like they boarded the planes like regular passengers.

We should be even more vigilant than normal to make sure that our Rights aren't further impinged upon as a result of this in the interest of greater security. If we allow our rights to be further eroded as a result of this then we will be handing a vicotry to those that seek to destroy the United States and what it stands for.

Coinneach · September 11, 2001, 02:31 PM

Folks, what say we leave religion out of this and focus on the immediate issue?

We absolutely cannot afford to be divided now. Stay on-topic. Please.

Seeker · September 11, 2001, 02:31 PM

I have just heard that a stewardess on board one of the planes that hit the WTC placed a phone call to Operatons and said two stewardess had been stabbed and the flight deck stormed.

I imagine that these were blades less than 4 inches long so that they could pass security.

johnAK · September 11, 2001, 02:33 PM

yes, I totally agree with Seeker, if anyone in doubt, go to blockbuster and rent & see movie "Siege" with denzel washinton and Bruce Willis,
Is that(situation in movie) what you want in the future in your life? not for me!!!

>>>Whose god? I am not a Christian and I don't want my government run by any particular religious group.

Throwing out some of our basic principles at a time like this is wrong and not productive. If it makes you feel better then by all means pray to your god or gods, but don't force your god on me via the government.

I am hearing people on TV say that we should put the military in charge of Airport security, with automatic weapons like they do in Europe. This is reactionism. How would more armed guards have prevented this? Did the terrorists rush the gates? Jump over x-ray machines? Run around metal detectors? No, it sounds like they boarded the planes like regular passengers.

We should be even more vigilant than normal to make sure that our Rights aren't further impinged upon as a result of this in the interest of greater security. If we allow our rights to be further eroded as a result of this then we will be handing a vicotry to those that seek to destroy the United States and what it stands for.

rock_jock · September 11, 2001, 02:35 PM

This is so frustrating. I wish instead of this mass murder that these cowards would confront us one on one. Let them attack us in our towns and cities, so they can see the resolve of the American people, so they can see how a free and armed citizenry responds to threats against life and liberty. But, of course, they won't. They are vile and evil and are totally void of any human compassion or decency. I would give any amount of money to be able to participate in the retribution against these worthless murderers.

Now, as to why they did this, I hate to say it, but these pieces of human debris are, IMO, paying homage to their false god. They have made that fairly clear in the statements of the past. They expect paradise for their siucide mission and quest for blood, but they have been deceived and will only receive eternal punishment. In the meantime, we should do everything we can to help them quickly meet their sorry fate.

johnAK · September 11, 2001, 02:40 PM

unfortunately,
NO, it's not because their false god or something, they all are pissed big time because Israel,
I live in Kali, and everyone here in Kali I asked about
"what would you do if mexico come to Kali claiming what Israell claiming and drove you out of your home?"
100 % of answer is "I would do what palestinians doing"

Keith Rogan · September 11, 2001, 02:45 PM

We'll probably never know, but I'll bet they used these plastic darts or daggers that are sold in martial arts stores. No matter how much you ramp up security, good planning can still get a weapon on a plane.
It hardly matters since a well-trained man can take over with nothing but his bare hands.

Ultimately, it will be our geo-political stance that makes things worse or better.

Is anybody else troubled by the fact that Bush is flying all over the damned country instead of going to the White House and showing a bit of courage? Do they really think another jetliner can break through the cordon of fighters we have up?
I'm badly disappointed in him. Flying to DC right now would make a great statement - hiding away in the hinterlands looks weak.

Bullitt · September 11, 2001, 02:49 PM

Hey guys the focus is getting narrow. We are being reduced to arguing over religious rights. We all know that most major religions have all had their extremist factions that take everything out of context. More importantly right now we need to be focused. We are Amercians! We are the greatest country in the world. We lead the way in everything. The US sets the standards and this causes a great deal of resentment from other less fortunate countries. Lets remember we are lucky to have freedom and hopefully we have learned that its not a God given right but a priviledge worth protecting and definitely worth fighting for.

CPR · September 11, 2001, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Is anybody else troubled by the fact that Bush is flying all over the damned country instead of going to the White House and showing a bit of courage? Do they really think another jetliner can break through the cordon of fighters we have up?

Keith,

I disagree. It makes perfect sense, tactically speaking. We don't know what else the terrorists have in store. Why would you risk it?

Chris

dischord · September 11, 2001, 02:50 PM

They are guided missle destroyers, not battleships

t-man · September 11, 2001, 02:55 PM

You know,
There are not a lot of issues that would cause me to voluntarily sign up for the military (or draft). But this kind of terrorism is something worth fighting! America can not tolerate these kinds of acts!

CastleBravo · September 11, 2001, 02:56 PM

I would propose that we have been approaching the terrorism problem from the wrong point of view. We have been reactive; we try to find out when the bad people are doing something and try to prevent it.

Instead, we need to make it a national priority to ACTIVELY hunt down and kill off foreign terrorist groups wherever they are. Not as revenge (although that is cool in my book) and not as a deterrent (because it won't work), but rather as a straightforward removal of whoever threatens us. If we know that Group X hates our guts, we should simply seek them out and kill them off. With the cooperation of others if we can get it, by ourselves if not.

The only way to minimize the danger of terrorism is to physically destroy the people in the organized groups as they develop. I *DON'T* propose any curtailment of civil rights in the U.S. whatsoever. But foreign nationals in foreign countries have no rights under U.S. law and are subject to death whenever they pose a threat to the United States. Even if you don't catch them they are forced to spend people, time and resources just surviving.

Assassination on a wide scale isn't enough. Kill Bin Laden and his second cousin twice removed (or whatever) will just take his place. Instead, we need to kill Bin Laden, kill all of his people, destroy his physical resources and render him impotent. Also, we need to "persuade" nations that support terrorists to cease or face the consequences. We have allowed organized, well-financed groups of terrorists to survive and thrive. As a result, they have attacked us in progressively more sophisticated ways over the last decade.

This isn't a hysterical reaction, but a recognition of simple truth: that this single coordinated attack may kill more Americans than several of the WARS we have waged... and we need to start treating terrorist groups as nations that have declared war on us, rather than mere criminal elements.

September 11, 2001, 01:36 PM	#201
HankB Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Central Texas, outside of Austin Posts: 1,698	God bless those who died in this nauseating act of cowardice. My deepest sympathy to those who lost loved ones. Words fail to express what I feel... The first order of business in the investigation is to check airport security personnel at the airports these filghts originated. There HAVE to have been terrorists on the ground who infiltrated ground operations - maybe years ago - at the airports to enable so many hijackers access all at the same time. There have been stories - lots of them over the years - about lax security, non-existent background checks, etc. The scum obviously exploited these holes in security. And not to be paranoid . . . they may not have fled, and in fact they may still be there. __________________ To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself - Sun Tzu

September 11, 2001, 01:47 PM	#203
Keith Rogan Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 1,014	To give everyone an idea of how tightly the air traffic is locked down, I'm sitting here in Kodiak Alaska across the street from a lake where float planes are based. I just spoke to a friend at one of these charter outfits. We're at the tail end of a three day storm and there are dozens (perhaps as many as hundred) people stuck out in the bush at remote fishing and hunting sites. Many of them are already overdue for pickup because of the weather and yet the FAA is not allowing even these small planes to fly out for these people! I hope this doesn't go too long, doubtless somebody out there is running out of insulin or heart meds or something of that nature... __________________ Keith

September 11, 2001, 01:50 PM	#204
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	A friend of mine working 35 floors high over WTC (in the JP Morgan bldg) saw the second plane hit. She was evacuated over the brooklyn bridge and saw the second tower fall from there. Have a several more friends unaccounted for as of yet, one in the NYFD. Hope they made it out. If you have friends/relatives in NYC who have net access, thats how i got ahold of my friends. Hope you are all safe, god knows this morning watching this stuff live I thought "the balloon is going up" cooler head prevailing now.. but I'm deeply saddened and shocked. I was there in january.. its hard to imagine. Pray, give blood and stay tuned. __________________ You broke into the wrong Rec Room!

September 11, 2001, 01:52 PM	#205
Smiley Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2000 Location: CT, U.S.A. Posts: 217	God help Us. And God have mercy on those that did this becuase I surely won't. To everyone out there. Its time to wake the giant and finally do something worthwhile. __________________ "Let's Roll......." Todd Beamer American hero "Ne Conjuge Nobiscum" God and soldiers, we adore In times of danger, not before With the danger safely righted God is forgotten, and soldiers slighted

September 11, 2001, 01:53 PM	#206
dinosaur Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: NE Pa. Posts: 1,245	Dead, I would go in but the borders are closed. Remember, I`m in Pa. Even though I`m on disability I`m sure I could man a phone and free up an able bodied officer. I can`t even give blood because I`m a heart patient. As frustrated as many of you TFL`ers are, it`s nothing compared to how I feel. Many of you can give blood though. I`ve done it many times and it`ll come back to you, believe me. I have volunteered my services such as they are to the local P.D. but no word yet. I hope it`s not needed but we should be prepared.

September 11, 2001, 01:47 PM	#202
Dennis Staff Emeritus Join Date: November 23, 1998 Location: a small forest in Texas Posts: 7,079	All, I must sign off for now. Going to work. Please keep conjecture and posturing to a minimum and give validity (and sources) of information when possible. Thank you so much for your calm, professional conduct during the period of these heinous attacks. I salute you.

September 11, 2001, 02:00 PM	#207
Point Blank Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2000 Location: Armpit of the South...Atlanta Posts: 516	Maybe we should ditch the seperation of church and state phrase.The goverment wants to run this country without God's help and protection,then something like this happens and they urge us to pray for America. Lesson:Get God involved,keep God involved, cant go wrong.

September 11, 2001, 02:02 PM	#208
HET Registration in progress Join Date: March 2, 2001 Location: CA :( Posts: 77	One important thing we all need to do is PRAY!! For all the families and friends that were lost today. And that we find them that did this to our country men, women and children. BTW My Unit Reserve Center is at THREATCON DELTA. So I assume all military installations are at this level. __________________ Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -Alexander Hamilton

September 11, 2001, 02:07 PM	#210
Covert Mission Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 1999 Location: West of the Pecos Posts: 671	re ATTICUS's comment: "...but "IMHO" this has Saddam written all over it. This involved multiple hijackers who were capable of flying commercial jets..." I agree. Even if it was Osama Bin Laden's network who drew the blueprints and orchestrated the attack, but it's entirely feasible that they had state-sponsorship from someone, regarding resources and training (like training terrorists to fly commercial planes). I would bet heavily on Saddam for this, if true. Even down to counterfeiting documents like US passports to get these people into the US... Iraq would have the technology to do that. bin Laden would be just the hit-men for hire. In fact, as I've just typed this, former head of the CIA James Woolsey has said the exact same thing on CNN... it just makes sense.

September 11, 2001, 02:08 PM	#211
t-man Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2001 Location: Golden Posts: 132	Point Blank: Great point. Seems everyone gets religous at times like these (as they should, but seems like we all could be a little more 'prayed up' even before these horrible things happen) On another note: I had been feeling 'bad' that 2 weeks ago I spent money on another pistol. Now I'm feeling a little better about it. Not to say that the world is coming to an end, but it goes to show how one determined person, or small groups of people can turn the whole world's lives into complete chaos! May God bless America, our President and all the fine folks at TFL! t-man

September 11, 2001, 02:10 PM	#212
Fezwig Member Join Date: October 15, 2000 Posts: 27	Drundel, I am sure they meant "Warships", not "Battleships". Hell, to them they are probably the same thing. Fezwig

September 11, 2001, 02:21 PM	#213
Pendragon Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2001 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,153	I have to wonder if this will shake a lot of people out of their defacto hoplophobia/pacifism. We all went to bed feeling invincible as a nation - and we wake up to this. I think much of the modern attitude about weapons and violence comes from being so insulated and that feeling that nothing can happen - having weapons and CCWs, etc makes people think about things they dont want to think about. I wonder if this will change somewhat - hopefully for the better.

September 11, 2001, 02:31 PM	#215
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Folks, what say we leave religion out of this and focus on the immediate issue? We absolutely cannot afford to be divided now. Stay on-topic. Please. __________________ "A government is simply a body of men, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepherd Derrial Book

September 11, 2001, 02:31 PM	#216
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: Lacomb, Oregon Posts: 1,393	I have just heard that a stewardess on board one of the planes that hit the WTC placed a phone call to Operatons and said two stewardess had been stabbed and the flight deck stormed. I imagine that these were blades less than 4 inches long so that they could pass security. __________________ Molon Labe Seeker "The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson Don't Tread On Me! "Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" -- Thomas Jefferson In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us. -Thich Nhat Hanh

September 11, 2001, 02:33 PM	#217
johnAK Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2001 Location: somewhere orange county,CA Posts: 398	yes, I totally agree with Seeker, if anyone in doubt, go to blockbuster and rent & see movie "Siege" with denzel washinton and Bruce Willis, Is that(situation in movie) what you want in the future in your life? not for me!!! >>>Whose god? I am not a Christian and I don't want my government run by any particular religious group. Throwing out some of our basic principles at a time like this is wrong and not productive. If it makes you feel better then by all means pray to your god or gods, but don't force your god on me via the government. I am hearing people on TV say that we should put the military in charge of Airport security, with automatic weapons like they do in Europe. This is reactionism. How would more armed guards have prevented this? Did the terrorists rush the gates? Jump over x-ray machines? Run around metal detectors? No, it sounds like they boarded the planes like regular passengers. We should be even more vigilant than normal to make sure that our Rights aren't further impinged upon as a result of this in the interest of greater security. If we allow our rights to be further eroded as a result of this then we will be handing a vicotry to those that seek to destroy the United States and what it stands for.

September 11, 2001, 02:35 PM	#218
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,779	This is so frustrating. I wish instead of this mass murder that these cowards would confront us one on one. Let them attack us in our towns and cities, so they can see the resolve of the American people, so they can see how a free and armed citizenry responds to threats against life and liberty. But, of course, they won't. They are vile and evil and are totally void of any human compassion or decency. I would give any amount of money to be able to participate in the retribution against these worthless murderers. Now, as to why they did this, I hate to say it, but these pieces of human debris are, IMO, paying homage to their false god. They have made that fairly clear in the statements of the past. They expect paradise for their siucide mission and quest for blood, but they have been deceived and will only receive eternal punishment. In the meantime, we should do everything we can to help them quickly meet their sorry fate.

September 11, 2001, 02:40 PM	#219
johnAK Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2001 Location: somewhere orange county,CA Posts: 398	unfortunately, NO, it's not because their false god or something, they all are pissed big time because Israel, I live in Kali, and everyone here in Kali I asked about "what would you do if mexico come to Kali claiming what Israell claiming and drove you out of your home?" 100 % of answer is "I would do what palestinians doing"

September 11, 2001, 02:45 PM	#220
Keith Rogan Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 1,014	We'll probably never know, but I'll bet they used these plastic darts or daggers that are sold in martial arts stores. No matter how much you ramp up security, good planning can still get a weapon on a plane. It hardly matters since a well-trained man can take over with nothing but his bare hands. Ultimately, it will be our geo-political stance that makes things worse or better. Is anybody else troubled by the fact that Bush is flying all over the damned country instead of going to the White House and showing a bit of courage? Do they really think another jetliner can break through the cordon of fighters we have up? I'm badly disappointed in him. Flying to DC right now would make a great statement - hiding away in the hinterlands looks weak. __________________ Keith

September 11, 2001, 02:49 PM	#221
Bullitt Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2001 Location: TN Posts: 225	Hey guys the focus is getting narrow. We are being reduced to arguing over religious rights. We all know that most major religions have all had their extremist factions that take everything out of context. More importantly right now we need to be focused. We are Amercians! We are the greatest country in the world. We lead the way in everything. The US sets the standards and this causes a great deal of resentment from other less fortunate countries. Lets remember we are lucky to have freedom and hopefully we have learned that its not a God given right but a priviledge worth protecting and definitely worth fighting for.

September 11, 2001, 02:50 PM	#223
dischord Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 945	They are guided missle destroyers, not battleships __________________ Another member of the TFL diaspora

September 11, 2001, 02:55 PM	#224
t-man Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2001 Location: Golden Posts: 132	You know, There are not a lot of issues that would cause me to voluntarily sign up for the military (or draft). But this kind of terrorism is something worth fighting! America can not tolerate these kinds of acts!

September 11, 2001, 02:56 PM	#225
CastleBravo Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 1999 Posts: 2,144	I would propose that we have been approaching the terrorism problem from the wrong point of view. We have been reactive; we try to find out when the bad people are doing something and try to prevent it. Instead, we need to make it a national priority to ACTIVELY hunt down and kill off foreign terrorist groups wherever they are. Not as revenge (although that is cool in my book) and not as a deterrent (because it won't work), but rather as a straightforward removal of whoever threatens us. If we know that Group X hates our guts, we should simply seek them out and kill them off. With the cooperation of others if we can get it, by ourselves if not. The only way to minimize the danger of terrorism is to physically destroy the people in the organized groups as they develop. I DON'T propose any curtailment of civil rights in the U.S. whatsoever. But foreign nationals in foreign countries have no rights under U.S. law and are subject to death whenever they pose a threat to the United States. Even if you don't catch them they are forced to spend people, time and resources just surviving. Assassination on a wide scale isn't enough. Kill Bin Laden and his second cousin twice removed (or whatever) will just take his place. Instead, we need to kill Bin Laden, kill all of his people, destroy his physical resources and render him impotent. Also, we need to "persuade" nations that support terrorists to cease or face the consequences. We have allowed organized, well-financed groups of terrorists to survive and thrive. As a result, they have attacked us in progressively more sophisticated ways over the last decade. This isn't a hysterical reaction, but a recognition of simple truth: that this single coordinated attack may kill more Americans than several of the WARS we have waged... and we need to start treating terrorist groups as nations that have declared war on us, rather than mere criminal elements.