Future Weapons program stupidity

Double Naught Spy · May 4, 2006, 01:43 AM

In the first section, I see he is interviewing an expert on Multiple Launch Rocket Systems. Did you know they were first invented in the 1980s? What the heck? Hell, I know they were in use in WWII!

Later in the show, the Seal will be speaking on the comparison between the .223, .308 of the AK47 (not a ****ing .308, but a 7.62x39) and a .50 BMG. Why the hell would a SEAL call an AK round a .308? This has already been discussed, of course.

Next, they are showing the Australian gun that is said to be able to fire 1 million rounds a minute. It is a stupid claim. It is called Metal Storm. First, they have never fired a million rounds in a minute. It is a rate of fire, sure, but not one they can actually sustain. I have seen machineguns fire their 800 rounds a minute and fire for a minute. Metal Storm has never fired that long. Second, it isn't a gun, but a gun battery. The difference is striking, sort of like the difference between a rifleman and a rifle company. They simply are NOT the same thing. Why such a mistake would be made is dumbfounding.

As a battery with many barrels, the potential limit of a million is stupid because the limit is really unlimited. The more barrels you add that hold multiple rounds, the more rounds per limit that can be fired. I could get a million rounds a second out of simple having a million riflemen simultaneously fire single shot rifles. They hardly would be a rifleman firing 1 million rounds a minute.

If it was a single gun that could fire a million rounds a minute, I figure it would need one inch per slug and load. There are no shells per se and the loads are fired electronically. So for a "gun" to fire one million rounds a minute, you need a 15.78+ mile long barrel at one inch per round. The last 15.7 miles of ammo likely won't make it out of the barrel.

However, not to be concerned, they claim the gun won't jam. Right. The claim is based on jams being mechanical malfunctions of parts like springs breaking, fouling of the breech during cycling, etc. Fine.

On the Metal Storm, it is claimed the only moving part is the projectile. That is wrong. The projectile does move. Next is the gasses used to propel the slug. The gas is moving. When it moves, it moves wherever it can. If it can move rearward, it will, and then it can prematurely cook off rounds behind it. This is a malfunction not present in current guns.

Also moving is the electrical signal. Just because you can't see the mechanical movement does not mean something isn't moving. The electricity fires the rounds in proper sequence. They are computer chip controlled. So what happens with an errant static buildup or discharge of electricity within the system. Do you get ADs? What if you have lightning? My AR15 will no go down because of an EMP. Metal Storm will.

If you think about it, one of the real limits of computer technology is the speed of electricity MOVING through wiring. It does move.

There is nothing like having experts tell you things in their field that are not factual.

NukemJim · May 4, 2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

interviewing an expert on Multiple Launch Rocket Systems. Did you know they were first invented in the 1980s? What the heck? Hell, I know they were in use in WWII!

Uhmm.. would you care to make a slight wager about that ?

Say $10,000.00 ? (I've always wanted a M-82 )

NukemJim

Abndoc · May 4, 2006, 07:18 AM

The Germans used a trailer mounted multiple rocket system named the Nebelwerfer.

The U.S. had one mounted on a Sherman tank called a Calliope.

The Russians also had a truck mounted system, used during WWII.

These were all early versions of a MLRS.

Handy · May 4, 2006, 07:36 AM

DNS,

The Vulcan cannon has a stated rate of fire of 6000 rpm. I can think of no platform that carries 6000 rounds. The magazine fed M-16 does 800 rpm, but the biggest mag only holds 100 rounds. Are you going to make the same objection?

Mike40-11 · May 4, 2006, 07:40 AM

The Russian would be the Katyusha, also known as "Stalin's Organ".

Double Naught Spy · May 4, 2006, 09:27 AM

NukemJim, yes, I willl take the wager. I will cut you some slack and settle for a top of the line Colt AR15. I have a model in mind. I will have my FFL send you the information if you PM me where he can send you the paperwork. Check out http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/1989/MCW.htm for a great review of rocket systems and MLRS.

Handy, it isn't an issue of mag capacity. You can set of an M16 to fire for one minute. I have seen a gravity fed hopper for firing the gun upside down, only I saw it used on an AR15.

You CANNOT get a million rounds in a barrel to fire a Metal Storm. If you do get them in, they won't come out. What you missed was the fact they said it was ABLE to fire 1 million rounds a minute. They did not just say it had a rate of fire of 1 million rounds a minute. My contention is that they have not done it and cannot do it. Since it is a critical point, I have left my original post unedited and you can reread for yourself.

wacki · May 4, 2006, 10:08 AM

NukemJim maybe you should at least try to use google before you bet 10K.

Seriously, a fool and his money are soon parted.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bm-13.htm

Glenn E. Meyer · May 4, 2006, 10:18 AM

My problem with the Metal Storm is carrying my million round speed loader in my jeans.

Davidoff · May 4, 2006, 10:57 AM

You should try cargo pants.

Double Naught: Why take anything on TV gun related seriously? I mean we are talking about the same medium that teaches us that cars explode when you get in a minor accident and that you can light gasoline on the ground with a cigar.

Handy · May 4, 2006, 11:31 AM

DNS,

The point is that stated rpm's for weapons are a rate, not a capacity. An M-16 had a stated rpm of 800 long before anyone built the absurd hopper you spoke of. And the same device does not exist for all the hundreds of other magazine fed machineguns that also state a firing rate in rpm.

My car redlines at 6500 rpm, but I'm not going to do that for a full minute either.

exar · May 4, 2006, 12:34 PM

I very much wanted that show to be good. The host is an idiot and the information being fed to us has just been plain wrong in multple shows. If they can't do a little research on the crap they show then you might as well tune into South Park and Mind of Mencia instead. I'd rather be entertained than blatantly lied to.

smiling cobra · May 4, 2006, 02:28 PM

The show sucks....as does the pbs texas bunkhouse without guns...I give and want to weep....COBRA....

TheEgg · May 4, 2006, 04:00 PM

The Chinese developed MLRS by at least 1232 AD, and as early as 1045.

KSFreeman · May 4, 2006, 04:11 PM

The Song Dynasty used them against the Mongols.

Phht, the Chinese know everything and they knew it at least 500 years before us.

Varmint Eviscerator · May 4, 2006, 04:14 PM

They were beefed up bottle rockets the chinese made- the germans used semi liquid fuel. BTW we went to the moon on a beefed up v2, wanna look it up-I been needing some money

in fact the ruskies and the U.S captured and stole german genious, then the ruskies made the MIG, or tried to cus stalin threatened em within an inch of their lives. The americans got a V2 at D-day, then modified its fueling system slightly and its controll infrastructure and beefed it up!
You know what else we got from the krauts??? We got the assault weapon idea, stg 44- the russians took that schematic and kalishnikoveinsky modified it. Like your scope?? the germans invented the rifle scope as we know it today-sure there scopes before that, but not the same design and principal as the ones we use today
O-vertical takeoff was invented by the germans, also the jet planes
Chase

Double Naught Spy · May 4, 2006, 04:38 PM

Handy,

No sir. The point was that Metal Storm claimed their weapons are able to fire up to 1 million rounds a minute, not that they had a rate of fire of 1 million rounds a minute, which as a gun, they do NOT. They do for a gun battery.

Don't want to drive your car for one minute at 6500 rpm redline. So what? Do you know what redline is on a car? You can drive your car at redline, assuming you maintained your car properly. Redline is the reccomended max engine speed. It is exceeding redline where folks get into trouble or failing to maintain their car properly. If not maintained properly, "redline" rating means nothing as the car may fail at speeds well below the original posted redline rating. FYI, redline speeds for operation of a vehicle are not stated in minutes. The cycle rate of the engine may be 6500 rounds per minute, but how long you operate with the engine at that speed is not stated by most automakers.

So why are you arguing what Metal Storm claimed their gun was "able" to do as something not what they stated? What is your interest in this matter?

I take it from your lack of badgering that you agree that metal storm isn't a gun, per se, as claimed, but a gun battery?

FYI, you can fire an M16 for one minute, but it isn't with a magazine, it is with a conversion. It is called a Shrike.

Crosshair · May 4, 2006, 11:27 PM

Ah yes, the Nebelwerfer. Quite the distinct sound. Nothing quite like it.

urban assault · May 5, 2006, 12:26 AM

Nukejim is very, very quiet

.

Scope · May 5, 2006, 12:56 AM

I was in agreement with your rant until you said:

Quote:

On the Metal Storm, it is claimed the only moving part is the projectile. That is wrong. The projectile does move. Next is the gasses used to propel the slug. The gas is moving. When it moves, it moves wherever it can. If it can move rearward, it will, and then it can prematurely cook off rounds behind it. This is a malfunction not present in current guns.

Also moving is the electrical signal. Just because you can't see the mechanical movement does not mean something isn't moving. The electricity fires the rounds in proper sequence. They are computer chip controlled. So what happens with an errant static buildup or discharge of electricity within the system. Do you get ADs? What if you have lightning? My AR15 will no go down because of an EMP. Metal Storm will.

Gasses and electrical signals are not considered moving parts, just as computer chips and RF signals are not considered moving parts. Really, this gripe of yours has no merit.

I generally agree with your other complaints. Unlike conventional machine guns the firing rate of the metal storm does not give much insight into its true capabilities or limitations. Quoting the firing rate without putting it into the context of the amount of ammo it can hold greatly exaggerates the metal storms capabilities.

silicon wolverine · May 5, 2006, 01:36 AM

Im far more interested in the other possible uses of metalstorm products besides thier "miilion round wonder". Think of a handgun with 9mm, .45 and .22 barrels ALL IN THE SAME GUN. With a profile no bigger than a current beretta 92fs. The prototype is developed they're just trying to make it cost effiecent now. BTW they solved the cookoff problem with teh use of Dynamit nobel HTIPP (high temp ignition point propellant). Also with the design of the bullet changed it seals the bellet behind it to the barrel preventing gas from escaping to ignite the next charge.

SW

**Bud Helms** · May 5, 2006, 05:53 AM

I wonder how many here have been to Metalstorm's site? Their area denial mines are the real product. It works and has stirred the interest of more than one military source.

"Able to fire a million rounds a minute" and "a rate of fire of a million rounds a minute" mean the same thing. And as has been said, they don't advertise a million round magazine or feeder.

Mikeyboy · May 5, 2006, 09:41 AM

My problem with metalstorm , is how do you reload. It's not like a gattling gun that you can just keep on feeding. With the guns layout and the special stacked rounds, how do reload and can you reload while shooting. Seem cool until the gun runs empty. If you can't reload it until it stops shooting and if it takes awhile to reload then the gun is worthless after it initial burst in a combat situation.

I didn't watch the show but I seen the commercials. All I can say was, seen all those weapons systems before on the History channel (some years ago) so it was nothing new to me.

JR47 · May 5, 2006, 10:50 AM

The existing Metal Storm is essentially a concept weapon. The idea is sound, using the technology of today. The idea may be improved with new technology.

I wonder if the archers of the 17th century thought the same thing about the matchlock weapons then being developed? Good thing that nobody paid them any attention, either.

The 30mm GAU of the A-10 has an extreme rate of fire, as well. In fact, it's so extreme that the aircraft can't carry a minutes worth of ammo. Following your logic, the weapon is useless. Tell that to the Iraqui tank drivers.

For that matter, the Metal Storm weapon is mounted on a plate. A revolving turret system could hold three or four plates, and reloading could be accomplished while the other plates were being exhausted, via quick-connects, and replacing the plates. The computer could be shielded from EMP fairly easily. By the way, I believe that the speed of electricity approaches the speed of light, so it's doubtful that we'll ever have that as a limiting factor in this century.

Mikeyboy · May 5, 2006, 02:56 PM

JR...I'm talking in the ground base system it is now. The system was made to saturate an area with rounds. A system like that is perfect to batter a ground target or to take out a flying target (like an incoming missle). A gattling can be feed in a constant manner, adding more ammo to the chain, never needing to stop with the exception of mechinical failure. Metalstorm shoots it loads then it need to restacked. Does that process that take minutes or hours ?? For a plane it doesn't matter because your used up your ammo you return to base. If your in a fixed position with multiple enemies comming at you , that means a lot.

Handy · May 5, 2006, 03:33 PM

The metal storm concept is meant to be reloaded with preloaded barrels, treating them like magazines. It is not hard to envision a loading system that would keep new loaded barrel fed into the firing area from some sort of feed drum.

May 4, 2006, 01:43 AM	#1
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Future Weapons program stupidity In the first section, I see he is interviewing an expert on Multiple Launch Rocket Systems. Did you know they were first invented in the 1980s? What the heck? Hell, I know they were in use in WWII! Later in the show, the Seal will be speaking on the comparison between the .223, .308 of the AK47 (not a ****ing .308, but a 7.62x39) and a .50 BMG. Why the hell would a SEAL call an AK round a .308? This has already been discussed, of course. Next, they are showing the Australian gun that is said to be able to fire 1 million rounds a minute. It is a stupid claim. It is called Metal Storm. First, they have never fired a million rounds in a minute. It is a rate of fire, sure, but not one they can actually sustain. I have seen machineguns fire their 800 rounds a minute and fire for a minute. Metal Storm has never fired that long. Second, it isn't a gun, but a gun battery. The difference is striking, sort of like the difference between a rifleman and a rifle company. They simply are NOT the same thing. Why such a mistake would be made is dumbfounding. As a battery with many barrels, the potential limit of a million is stupid because the limit is really unlimited. The more barrels you add that hold multiple rounds, the more rounds per limit that can be fired. I could get a million rounds a second out of simple having a million riflemen simultaneously fire single shot rifles. They hardly would be a rifleman firing 1 million rounds a minute. If it was a single gun that could fire a million rounds a minute, I figure it would need one inch per slug and load. There are no shells per se and the loads are fired electronically. So for a "gun" to fire one million rounds a minute, you need a 15.78+ mile long barrel at one inch per round. The last 15.7 miles of ammo likely won't make it out of the barrel. However, not to be concerned, they claim the gun won't jam. Right. The claim is based on jams being mechanical malfunctions of parts like springs breaking, fouling of the breech during cycling, etc. Fine. On the Metal Storm, it is claimed the only moving part is the projectile. That is wrong. The projectile does move. Next is the gasses used to propel the slug. The gas is moving. When it moves, it moves wherever it can. If it can move rearward, it will, and then it can prematurely cook off rounds behind it. This is a malfunction not present in current guns. Also moving is the electrical signal. Just because you can't see the mechanical movement does not mean something isn't moving. The electricity fires the rounds in proper sequence. They are computer chip controlled. So what happens with an errant static buildup or discharge of electricity within the system. Do you get ADs? What if you have lightning? My AR15 will no go down because of an EMP. Metal Storm will. If you think about it, one of the real limits of computer technology is the speed of electricity MOVING through wiring. It does move. There is nothing like having experts tell you things in their field that are not factual. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 4, 2006, 07:18 AM	#3
Abndoc Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Location: Kalifornia Posts: 727	Mlrs The Germans used a trailer mounted multiple rocket system named the Nebelwerfer. The U.S. had one mounted on a Sherman tank called a Calliope. The Russians also had a truck mounted system, used during WWII. These were all early versions of a MLRS.

May 4, 2006, 09:27 AM	#6
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	NukemJim, yes, I willl take the wager. I will cut you some slack and settle for a top of the line Colt AR15. I have a model in mind. I will have my FFL send you the information if you PM me where he can send you the paperwork. Check out http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/1989/MCW.htm for a great review of rocket systems and MLRS. Handy, it isn't an issue of mag capacity. You can set of an M16 to fire for one minute. I have seen a gravity fed hopper for firing the gun upside down, only I saw it used on an AR15. You CANNOT get a million rounds in a barrel to fire a Metal Storm. If you do get them in, they won't come out. What you missed was the fact they said it was ABLE to fire 1 million rounds a minute. They did not just say it had a rate of fire of 1 million rounds a minute. My contention is that they have not done it and cannot do it. Since it is a critical point, I have left my original post unedited and you can reread for yourself. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 4, 2006, 10:18 AM	#8
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	My problem with the Metal Storm is carrying my million round speed loader in my jeans. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 4, 2006, 11:31 AM	#10
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	DNS, The point is that stated rpm's for weapons are a rate, not a capacity. An M-16 had a stated rpm of 800 long before anyone built the absurd hopper you spoke of. And the same device does not exist for all the hundreds of other magazine fed machineguns that also state a firing rate in rpm. My car redlines at 6500 rpm, but I'm not going to do that for a full minute either. Last edited by Handy; May 4, 2006 at 03:37 PM.

May 4, 2006, 07:36 AM	#4
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	DNS, The Vulcan cannon has a stated rate of fire of 6000 rpm. I can think of no platform that carries 6000 rounds. The magazine fed M-16 does 800 rpm, but the biggest mag only holds 100 rounds. Are you going to make the same objection?

May 4, 2006, 07:40 AM	#5
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	The Russian would be the Katyusha, also known as "Stalin's Organ".

May 4, 2006, 10:08 AM	#7
wacki Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Location: Moving out of Indiana Posts: 426	NukemJim maybe you should at least try to use google before you bet 10K. Seriously, a fool and his money are soon parted. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bm-13.htm

May 4, 2006, 10:57 AM	#9
Davidoff Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Posts: 17	You should try cargo pants. Double Naught: Why take anything on TV gun related seriously? I mean we are talking about the same medium that teaches us that cars explode when you get in a minor accident and that you can light gasoline on the ground with a cigar.

May 4, 2006, 12:34 PM	#11
exar Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 224	I very much wanted that show to be good. The host is an idiot and the information being fed to us has just been plain wrong in multple shows. If they can't do a little research on the crap they show then you might as well tune into South Park and Mind of Mencia instead. I'd rather be entertained than blatantly lied to.

May 4, 2006, 02:28 PM	#12
smiling cobra Member Join Date: February 8, 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 44	The show sucks....as does the pbs texas bunkhouse without guns...I give and want to weep....COBRA....

May 4, 2006, 04:00 PM	#13
TheEgg Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2001 Location: TEXAS, ouside of Dallas. Posts: 374	The Chinese developed MLRS by at least 1232 AD, and as early as 1045. __________________ NRA Lifer. Texas State Rifle Assn. If it goes "BOOM", I like it!

May 4, 2006, 04:11 PM	#14
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	The Song Dynasty used them against the Mongols. Phht, the Chinese know everything and they knew it at least 500 years before us. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

May 4, 2006, 04:14 PM	#15
Varmint Eviscerator Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2005 Location: about an hour north of the big apple Posts: 549	They were beefed up bottle rockets the chinese made- the germans used semi liquid fuel. BTW we went to the moon on a beefed up v2, wanna look it up-I been needing some money in fact the ruskies and the U.S captured and stole german genious, then the ruskies made the MIG, or tried to cus stalin threatened em within an inch of their lives. The americans got a V2 at D-day, then modified its fueling system slightly and its controll infrastructure and beefed it up! You know what else we got from the krauts??? We got the assault weapon idea, stg 44- the russians took that schematic and kalishnikoveinsky modified it. Like your scope?? the germans invented the rifle scope as we know it today-sure there scopes before that, but not the same design and principal as the ones we use today O-vertical takeoff was invented by the germans, also the jet planes Chase __________________ Ahh, a good old bolt action,a bolt is a remedy for time, afternoons with our fathers and their fathers, for the mighty olympic shooters, for the wanna be's,for the time of youth in the woods, for the young.......the old, it is timeless, classic, sleek-a piece of art forever to remain in our memories, our hearts, our future.

May 4, 2006, 04:38 PM	#16
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Handy, No sir. The point was that Metal Storm claimed their weapons are able to fire up to 1 million rounds a minute, not that they had a rate of fire of 1 million rounds a minute, which as a gun, they do NOT. They do for a gun battery. Don't want to drive your car for one minute at 6500 rpm redline. So what? Do you know what redline is on a car? You can drive your car at redline, assuming you maintained your car properly. Redline is the reccomended max engine speed. It is exceeding redline where folks get into trouble or failing to maintain their car properly. If not maintained properly, "redline" rating means nothing as the car may fail at speeds well below the original posted redline rating. FYI, redline speeds for operation of a vehicle are not stated in minutes. The cycle rate of the engine may be 6500 rounds per minute, but how long you operate with the engine at that speed is not stated by most automakers. So why are you arguing what Metal Storm claimed their gun was "able" to do as something not what they stated? What is your interest in this matter? I take it from your lack of badgering that you agree that metal storm isn't a gun, per se, as claimed, but a gun battery? FYI, you can fire an M16 for one minute, but it isn't with a magazine, it is with a conversion. It is called a Shrike. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 4, 2006, 11:27 PM	#17
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Ah yes, the Nebelwerfer. Quite the distinct sound. Nothing quite like it. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

May 5, 2006, 12:26 AM	#18
urban assault Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2000 Location: About 30 miles from Portland, Oregon. Posts: 216	Nukejim is very, very quiet . __________________ "My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife... And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next!" - Gladiator "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." - Al Capone

May 5, 2006, 01:36 AM	#20
silicon wolverine Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2006 Location: South dakota Posts: 674	Im far more interested in the other possible uses of metalstorm products besides thier "miilion round wonder". Think of a handgun with 9mm, .45 and .22 barrels ALL IN THE SAME GUN. With a profile no bigger than a current beretta 92fs. The prototype is developed they're just trying to make it cost effiecent now. BTW they solved the cookoff problem with teh use of Dynamit nobel HTIPP (high temp ignition point propellant). Also with the design of the bullet changed it seals the bellet behind it to the barrel preventing gas from escaping to ignite the next charge. SW

May 5, 2006, 05:53 AM	#21
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	I wonder how many here have been to Metalstorm's site? Their area denial mines are the real product. It works and has stirred the interest of more than one military source. "Able to fire a million rounds a minute" and "a rate of fire of a million rounds a minute" mean the same thing. And as has been said, they don't advertise a million round magazine or feeder.

May 5, 2006, 09:41 AM	#22
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	My problem with metalstorm , is how do you reload. It's not like a gattling gun that you can just keep on feeding. With the guns layout and the special stacked rounds, how do reload and can you reload while shooting. Seem cool until the gun runs empty. If you can't reload it until it stops shooting and if it takes awhile to reload then the gun is worthless after it initial burst in a combat situation. I didn't watch the show but I seen the commercials. All I can say was, seen all those weapons systems before on the History channel (some years ago) so it was nothing new to me.

May 5, 2006, 10:50 AM	#23
JR47 Junior member Join Date: August 9, 2005 Location: North Georgia Posts: 2,228	The existing Metal Storm is essentially a concept weapon. The idea is sound, using the technology of today. The idea may be improved with new technology. I wonder if the archers of the 17th century thought the same thing about the matchlock weapons then being developed? Good thing that nobody paid them any attention, either. The 30mm GAU of the A-10 has an extreme rate of fire, as well. In fact, it's so extreme that the aircraft can't carry a minutes worth of ammo. Following your logic, the weapon is useless. Tell that to the Iraqui tank drivers. For that matter, the Metal Storm weapon is mounted on a plate. A revolving turret system could hold three or four plates, and reloading could be accomplished while the other plates were being exhausted, via quick-connects, and replacing the plates. The computer could be shielded from EMP fairly easily. By the way, I believe that the speed of electricity approaches the speed of light, so it's doubtful that we'll ever have that as a limiting factor in this century.

May 5, 2006, 02:56 PM	#24
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	JR...I'm talking in the ground base system it is now. The system was made to saturate an area with rounds. A system like that is perfect to batter a ground target or to take out a flying target (like an incoming missle). A gattling can be feed in a constant manner, adding more ammo to the chain, never needing to stop with the exception of mechinical failure. Metalstorm shoots it loads then it need to restacked. Does that process that take minutes or hours ?? For a plane it doesn't matter because your used up your ammo you return to base. If your in a fixed position with multiple enemies comming at you , that means a lot.

May 5, 2006, 03:33 PM	#25
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	The metal storm concept is meant to be reloaded with preloaded barrels, treating them like magazines. It is not hard to envision a loading system that would keep new loaded barrel fed into the firing area from some sort of feed drum.