Robbers Shoot 4-Year-Old to Quiet Her Crying

Oatka · May 25, 2000, 11:42 AM

"You don't need a gun, just give them what they want and they won't bother you".

Oh yeah, those five people at Wendy's in NYC cooperated too.
http://www.sltrib.com/05252000/nation_w/52095.htm

Robbers Shoot 4-Year-Old to Quiet Her Crying
Thursday, May 25, 2000

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A 4-year-old girl was shot in the chest during an armed robbery, apparently because she would not stop crying.
Vanessa Peralta was in fair condition Wednesday at Carolinas Medical Center.
The girl's mother, Mirna Adia Machuca, was leaving the family-owned La Providencia grocery store when the robbery happened Monday night, police said.
She locked up the store and was heading with Vanessa and her other daughter, an infant, to her vehicle when two men with handguns approached, police said.
"One of the men told the mother to keep the girl quiet or he would kill her," The Charlotte Observer quoted an unidentified customer as saying.
Relatives said Machuca gave the gunmen a bag of money and tried to keep Vanessa calm.
One of the men shot the girl, and the two men fled, police said. Neither the mother nor the infant was injured.
"It was an act of pure meanness," police Sgt. Ken Clark said. "That's it, plain and simple."
There were no arrests.
Tomas Ramos, the girl's grandfather, said a bullet went through Vanessa's chest and exited through an arm.

© Copyright 2000

And then this, from the Charlotte Observer - http://www.charlotte.com/observer/lo...dannye0525.htm

Robber tried to stop more than tears

Thursday notes

The police officer who said the act was "mean" is right.

But meanness "plain and simple"? I wonder.

The unidentified robber, who shot 4-year-old Vanessa Peralta on Monday night because she cried while he held her mother at gunpoint, might've been acting out of stealthier emotions.

Believe me, I have no sympathy for the robber. But meanness is a multicolored poison.

Nobody loves tears. Maybe men least of all.

Again and again, we read of young parents who shake their babies to death because they can't stop their crying.

Do tears remind us of our powerlessness? Do they arouse guilt? Or trigger memories of a mother weeping because the rent is due?

Did Vanessa's crying force him to face his crime? Maybe he pulled the trigger to blow her away before her tears could blow him away.
-- 30 --

The writer makes me want to puke.

[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited May 25, 2000).]

USP45 · May 25, 2000, 11:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Oatka:

"One of the men told the mother to keep the girl quiet or he would kill her," The Charlotte Observer quoted an unidentified customer as saying.
Relatives said Machuca gave the gunmen a bag of money and tried to keep Vanessa calm.
One of the men shot the girl, and the two men fled, police said. Neither the mother nor the infant was injured. [/quote]

Hey Folkbabe, i hope you are reading this.

You take your passifism and stay as far away from me as possible.

You embarrass me.

~USP

Slowpoke_Rodrigo · May 25, 2000, 11:48 AM

(deleted)

[This message has been edited by Slowpoke_Rodrigo (edited May 25, 2000).]

Donny · May 25, 2000, 12:16 PM

If anyone here knew who these scum-suckin' vermin were, would you have any remorse for dispatching them?
To knowingly attempt to murder a crying child is right at the bottom of the gutter.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Believe me, I have no sympathy for the robber. But meanness is a multicolored poison.
[/quote]

What does that mean?

Best Regards,
Don

------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

CMOS · May 25, 2000, 12:40 PM

Anyone still not believe in vigilanteism?

CMOS

------------------
NRA? Good. Now joing the GOA!

Mikey · May 25, 2000, 12:58 PM

This incident begs the question...

Why is attempted murder a lesser offense than first degree murder? Why should we reward the perp with a lighter sentence just because he was unsuccessful?

This is a question that has haunted me for some time - your thoughts?

Mikey

Jack 99 · May 25, 2000, 01:48 PM

Interesting question, Mikey. Never thought of it that way.

Vigilante justice really isn't the way. Can be as bad as the problems that vigilantes seek to solve.

What's needed is a good healthy dose of armed citizenry. Can you imagine what would happen to scumbags like these if, say, 1 in 4 Americans were armed? They might get away with a few robberies, but the law of averages would catch up to them in a big way eventually.

------------------
"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper

"The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty - and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." -- H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun

"If God had not wanted them to be sheared, he would not have made them sheep." -- Bad guy from the Magnificent Seven.

"Don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blow." -- Bob Dylan

"This is This" -- Robert DeNiro as "Michael" in THE DEER HUNTER

Jay Baker · May 25, 2000, 01:54 PM

This incident, Wendy's, McDonalds, ad infinitum, ad nauseum....

Prime Examples of why I am NEVER unarmed. I don't give a damn WHAT unConstitutional laws have been passed.

J.B.

JimR · May 25, 2000, 05:41 PM

FWIW, NC gun laws aren't that great, especially given that they're nominally a southern state. You must have a permit to purchase a handgun, they don't recognize other states' CCW permits, etc.

Might be part of the reason there aren't enough citizens packing to keep vermin like this in check.

[This message has been edited by JimR (edited May 25, 2000).]

JonShaKel · May 25, 2000, 07:21 PM

JimR, NC's gun laws may not be that great, but you can carry a fully loaded weapon with you as long as it is not concealed, unlike some states where you can't carry the firearm and ammo together in the passenger area of a vehicle. Had the mother had a firearm the out come might have been different.

What did you mean that NC is "nominally a southern state"?

JimR · May 25, 2000, 08:00 PM

I meant that with somewhat unfriendly gun laws, NC must be becoming more "civilized", like say NY & NJ

From a quick reading of their laws, NC doesn't look as gun-friendly as GA.

Here's another reason why I say this beyond my earlier comments. From the NC State Attorney General's web site:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>6.Going Armed To The Terror Of The People

By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court has said that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.[/quote]

My reading of this is that if you "terrify" some idiot soccer mom by walking around in open carry with a Glock in your belt holster, you're quite possibly going to be arrested and charged. As a non-resident, there's no way to legally carry concealed. An unfriendly gun law IMHO.

ojibweindian · May 25, 2000, 08:06 PM

I've got two kids, a five-year-old girl and a three-year-old boy, that I can't be with because of the big D.

Something like this happening to one or both of them, without me being there to take the bullet or protect them, is my WORST NIGHTMARE.

Man, sometimes this world just really bites....

------------------
For God so loved the world that he gave his onlly begoten Son...

May 25, 2000, 11:46 AM	#2
USP45 Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: Peoples Commonwealth of Massachusetts Posts: 1,562	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oatka: "One of the men told the mother to keep the girl quiet or he would kill her," The Charlotte Observer quoted an unidentified customer as saying. Relatives said Machuca gave the gunmen a bag of money and tried to keep Vanessa calm. One of the men shot the girl, and the two men fled, police said. Neither the mother nor the infant was injured. [/quote] Hey Folkbabe, i hope you are reading this. You take your passifism and stay as far away from me as possible. You embarrass me. ~USP

May 25, 2000, 12:16 PM	#4
Donny Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 1999 Posts: 755	If anyone here knew who these scum-suckin' vermin were, would you have any remorse for dispatching them? To knowingly attempt to murder a crying child is right at the bottom of the gutter. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Believe me, I have no sympathy for the robber. But meanness is a multicolored poison. [/quote] What does that mean? Best Regards, Don ------------------ The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall. Adolf Hitler

May 25, 2000, 08:00 PM	#11
JimR Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 909	I meant that with somewhat unfriendly gun laws, NC must be becoming more "civilized", like say NY & NJ From a quick reading of their laws, NC doesn't look as gun-friendly as GA. Here's another reason why I say this beyond my earlier comments. From the NC State Attorney General's web site: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>6.Going Armed To The Terror Of The People By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court has said that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.[/quote] My reading of this is that if you "terrify" some idiot soccer mom by walking around in open carry with a Glock in your belt holster, you're quite possibly going to be arrested and charged. As a non-resident, there's no way to legally carry concealed. An unfriendly gun law IMHO.

May 25, 2000, 11:42 AM	#1
Oatka Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Nevada Posts: 3,076	"You don't need a gun, just give them what they want and they won't bother you". Oh yeah, those five people at Wendy's in NYC cooperated too. http://www.sltrib.com/05252000/nation_w/52095.htm Robbers Shoot 4-Year-Old to Quiet Her Crying Thursday, May 25, 2000 THE ASSOCIATED PRESS CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A 4-year-old girl was shot in the chest during an armed robbery, apparently because she would not stop crying. Vanessa Peralta was in fair condition Wednesday at Carolinas Medical Center. The girl's mother, Mirna Adia Machuca, was leaving the family-owned La Providencia grocery store when the robbery happened Monday night, police said. She locked up the store and was heading with Vanessa and her other daughter, an infant, to her vehicle when two men with handguns approached, police said. "One of the men told the mother to keep the girl quiet or he would kill her," The Charlotte Observer quoted an unidentified customer as saying. Relatives said Machuca gave the gunmen a bag of money and tried to keep Vanessa calm. One of the men shot the girl, and the two men fled, police said. Neither the mother nor the infant was injured. "It was an act of pure meanness," police Sgt. Ken Clark said. "That's it, plain and simple." There were no arrests. Tomas Ramos, the girl's grandfather, said a bullet went through Vanessa's chest and exited through an arm. © Copyright 2000 And then this, from the Charlotte Observer - http://www.charlotte.com/observer/lo...dannye0525.htm Robber tried to stop more than tears Thursday notes The police officer who said the act was "mean" is right. But meanness "plain and simple"? I wonder. The unidentified robber, who shot 4-year-old Vanessa Peralta on Monday night because she cried while he held her mother at gunpoint, might've been acting out of stealthier emotions. Believe me, I have no sympathy for the robber. But meanness is a multicolored poison. Nobody loves tears. Maybe men least of all. Again and again, we read of young parents who shake their babies to death because they can't stop their crying. Do tears remind us of our powerlessness? Do they arouse guilt? Or trigger memories of a mother weeping because the rent is due? Did Vanessa's crying force him to face his crime? Maybe he pulled the trigger to blow her away before her tears could blow him away. -- 30 -- The writer makes me want to puke. [This message has been edited by Oatka (edited May 25, 2000).]

May 25, 2000, 11:48 AM	#3
Slowpoke_Rodrigo Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 1999 Posts: 607	(deleted) [This message has been edited by Slowpoke_Rodrigo (edited May 25, 2000).]

May 25, 2000, 12:40 PM	#5
CMOS Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 1999 Location: TEXAS Posts: 1,417	Anyone still not believe in vigilanteism? CMOS ------------------ NRA? Good. Now joing the GOA!

May 25, 2000, 12:58 PM	#6
Mikey Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Tennessee Posts: 885	This incident begs the question... Why is attempted murder a lesser offense than first degree murder? Why should we reward the perp with a lighter sentence just because he was unsuccessful? This is a question that has haunted me for some time - your thoughts? Mikey

May 25, 2000, 01:48 PM	#7
Jack 99 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Posts: 1,082	Interesting question, Mikey. Never thought of it that way. Vigilante justice really isn't the way. Can be as bad as the problems that vigilantes seek to solve. What's needed is a good healthy dose of armed citizenry. Can you imagine what would happen to scumbags like these if, say, 1 in 4 Americans were armed? They might get away with a few robberies, but the law of averages would catch up to them in a big way eventually. ------------------ "Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper "The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty - and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." -- H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun "If God had not wanted them to be sheared, he would not have made them sheep." -- Bad guy from the Magnificent Seven. "Don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blow." -- Bob Dylan "This is This" -- Robert DeNiro as "Michael" in THE DEER HUNTER

May 25, 2000, 01:54 PM	#8
Jay Baker Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2000 Location: S.W. Idaho Posts: 1,294	This incident, Wendy's, McDonalds, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.... Prime Examples of why I am NEVER unarmed. I don't give a damn WHAT unConstitutional laws have been passed. J.B.

May 25, 2000, 05:41 PM	#9
JimR Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 909	FWIW, NC gun laws aren't that great, especially given that they're nominally a southern state. You must have a permit to purchase a handgun, they don't recognize other states' CCW permits, etc. Might be part of the reason there aren't enough citizens packing to keep vermin like this in check. [This message has been edited by JimR (edited May 25, 2000).]

May 25, 2000, 07:21 PM	#10
JonShaKel Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Posts: 62	JimR, NC's gun laws may not be that great, but you can carry a fully loaded weapon with you as long as it is not concealed, unlike some states where you can't carry the firearm and ammo together in the passenger area of a vehicle. Had the mother had a firearm the out come might have been different. What did you mean that NC is "nominally a southern state"?

May 25, 2000, 08:06 PM	#12
ojibweindian Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2000 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 1,198	I've got two kids, a five-year-old girl and a three-year-old boy, that I can't be with because of the big D. Something like this happening to one or both of them, without me being there to take the bullet or protect them, is my WORST NIGHTMARE. Man, sometimes this world just really bites.... ------------------ For God so loved the world that he gave his onlly begoten Son...