Home defense: Rifle or shotgun in addition to pistol?

[PunchPaper]

As some of the gun writers will write in the gun mags, I have a
pretty low risk lifestyle.

Just a working guy. Don't go looking for trouble.
Decent neighborhood, but on very rare occaisions (like once) something
went down with another neighbor being robbed during the day.

Is a good .45 all you really need?

Or... is there any point in having a AR-15/AK-47 style rifle or shotgun,
just in case?

I think I read here once that your handgun just buys time until you can fight your way back to your rifle/shotgun?

Overkill or practical?

[MLeake]

There are pros and cons to each.

Rifle Pros: Excellent stopping power potential; long range capability if needed; potentially high capacity and rate of fire (AR, AK, etc); ability to penetrate body armor

Rifle Cons: Overpenetration concerns; legal issues if engaging in long range SD shooting (this is kind of secondary); difficulty in moving around a house (opening / closing doors, etc with rifle in hand); easier for BG to grab from around a corner or behind cover

Shotgun Pros: With slug, same as rifle, though shorter range and potentially less armor penetration. With shot, add the ability to tailor loads to reduce or eliminate overpenetration.

Shotgun Cons: Same as rifle (although selection of shot can reduce or eliminate overpenetration).

Handgun Pros: Concealability; portability; ease of use; ability to open and close doors, make phone calls, etc with weapon in hand; ability to answer door with weapon out of sight (can't do this with rifle or shotgun); reduced risk of overpenetration relative to a rifle bullet or deer slug; potential high capacity and rate of fire. Relatively harder for BG to grab than a rifle or shotgun.

Handgun Cons: Relative lack of stopping power compared to rifle or shotgun; relative lack of penetrating power compared to rifle or shotgun slug; lack of ability to effectively engage at longer ranges if necessary.

I'm sure I've missed a few things, but there's a quick list for you.

Cheers,

M

[saber9]

IMHO, a short barrel pump shotgun is, or should be, the #1 home defense weapon. In a city environment, I personally think AR15/AK47/SKS weapons are overkill for home defense. Not so in the country, though. Handguns are concealable and easier to carry. Any LEO or soldier who is going into a true combat situation always wants a long gun and regards a hand gun as a backup or secondary weapon. I feel the same about home defense.

[xrocket]

Buy and practice with a 20ga short barreled pump shotgun. Load it with standard OO buckshot and your good to go. Anyone, male or female can handle it and you don't need magnum loads for HD /PD. After awhile, if you want to move up to a 12ga or an AR you'll have a good base to work from.

Good luck and good shooting.

[KyJim]

The short answer is that a .45 should be "enough." A shotgun is more powerful but will probably be harder to access. As Saber9 mentioned, a rifle will often over penetrate in an urban environment but is also going to be harder to access. With a low risk lifestyle, I wouldn't worry about bad guys wearing body armor. I know it's possible, but it's also possible they could bring a tank.

[Deaf Smith]

I like the M1 carbine for inside the house (besides the pistol.)

1. Plenty of power inside 100 yards (and who can say any house has 100 yard rooms!) And holds pleny of ammo to! And rounds like the DPX carbine by Cor-Bon makes it really effective. And fast reloads. Plus M1 Carbine military pouches are still out there for grabs.

2. Blast is no where near as bad is the 5.56 or 7.62x39 rounds. Now those two, fired indoors, are pretty horrid. Easy to disorentate you. And the flash from a 16 inch AR is much more than a M1 Carbine.

3. It's so easy for the women folk and kids to handle. If they have used a Ruger 10/22, then they pretty much know how to use a M1 Carbine. This is very important if they are part of the plan to defend the home.

4. Easy kicking. No more than a AR, and less than a AK.

5. Excellent sights.

6. Very short and easy to manuver between rooms.

[ElectricHellfire]

In addition to my Glock, I keep a Mossberg 500 and a AK47 in my closet as backup. After the Glock I'd head for the shotgun.

[Bill DeShivs]

Since you won't be going into "combat," your .45 (if you can shoot it well) should be all you need.
If you WANT a long gun, it certainly can be used for HD. The 20 ga. is a great little gun with #3 buck (they don't load 00 to my knowledge.)

[Socrates]

Home defense: 450 Nitro Express double...
Pistol: 475 Linebaugh, or. 500 max...
Bears moose, are in the mix..

[wnycollector]

If there is a problem in my house...I'm passing over ALL of my pistols and grabbing my shotgun. I'm just more comfortable with 8 rounds of 00 buck.

[XD45Compact]

+1 on the shotgun. There's (arguably) less 'aiming' involved in hitting your target and if selecting a pump-action shotgun (which is what I'd recommend)...it will possess the universal sound-effect when racking a round into the chamber that nearly every perpetrator can understand. It basically says "leave the premises or you will likely die by a gigantic hole in your body".

Remember...if given the choice...you really want the threat to leave WITHOUT you having to resort to firing rounds and killing someone.

[Kreyzhorse]

I think a pistol or a shotgun should be all you really need. There is certainly no reason not to have both however. If picking one or the other, a shotgun loaded with buckshot would be my first choice.

There are too many cons for me to consider a rifle a practical HD gun. This post sums it up nicely.

Rifle Cons: Overpenetration concerns; legal issues if engaging in long range SD shooting (this is kind of secondary); difficulty in moving around a house (opening / closing doors, etc with rifle in hand); easier for BG to grab from around a corner or behind cover

[shortwave]

IMHO don`t think there`s a better home defense weapon than shotgun. as you stated in-house, pistol gets me safely to shotgun. for manuverability in-house there are many after-market do-dads you can purchase to really dress up a shotgun. don`t see the need for rifle for in-house s/d. don`t need long range weapon with single bullet. not trying to show b/g my markmanship(usually after dark) just want threat to go away. for me buckshot does just fine.

[Officer's Match]

One other consideration outside of the tactical realm is your jurisdiction, ie the nature of the political climate in your area and the likelihood the Prosecuting Attorney in your area is of the "gun grabber" crowd. In that case, I'd want any shotgun to "look like a hunting weapon".

[ds1]

do any one know where i can get a fireinpin for 380
if you know where can you please give me the number
or if i can get it cusmized it in if you know some prices please let me know.
this is the modle p-380 cal-380 auto so let me know

[Sriracha]

I am also in your shoes, owning pistols but contemplating long guns. I would have gotten a 20 gauge shotgun first and then thought about a pistol. However, the main reason I did not is that I live in a city and it's 60 miles to the nearest range where I can shoot a shotgun, whereas it's only 6 miles from an indoor pistol range.

You might want to think about how much you can practice with a long gun. Long guns have major advantages, but in practice, I would end up training ten times more often with a pistol.

One exception to this: consider a .45 carbine like the HiPoint or Marlin Camp Carbine, or a conversion kit like the Mec-tech if you have a 1911 or Glock.

Otherwise, I heartily agree with the shotgun suggestions.

- Sriracha

[PunchPaper]

Good, well thought out replies. Thank you.

Can anyone else confirm this statement "The 20 ga. is a great little gun with #3 buck (they don't load 00 to my knowledge.)"?

BTW, would you say that a 20ga shotgun has more "stopping power" than a .45 at similar distances?

I am also faced with the issue where I would need to travel to the next county to find a shotgun range.

One local indoor range has some rifle lanes, but as cool as they look, I am
not convinced the AK/AR style rifles are appropriate for a suburban setting.

There used to be a shotgun range in my county but it's now homes PLUS
they found out the soil was contaminated with lead and whatever else from
years of shooting.

I had considered trying a 20 gauge shotgun 1st and then, once I build my skills, moving up to a 12ga.

My local indoor range only allows you to shoot low recoil slugs, no shot.
Do you think that a transition from low recoil slugs to having shot loaded for home defense
would be pretty seamless?

In the meantime, like some of the posters suggest, there are certain distinct
advantages to a handgun, like the ability to open the door with the
gun concealed (as I have done on occasion).

[Slopemeno]

In your case, it might be worth traveling to get the training opportunity. Do you have a USPSA or bowling pin league nearby?

You can design your own dry fire home-training skill builders. I shot local Action Shooting matches for years, and practiced weekly, but I spent quite a bit of time on dry-fire exercises, and they really helped. A training partner and I were comparing notes back when we were both about six months into the game, and it was like the light coming on over our heads that that the from-the-leather, frontsight, press drill was really starting to pay off.

At typical home-defense ranges, you need to focus on fast, accurate hits. I found shooting things like pepper-poppers, or falling plates really reinforces the discipline you need to do the task under pressue, i.e. real life. Any break in concentration shows up.

I don't think you would go wrong if you kept a pistol close by, and your long gun probably in your sleeping area. Under pressure, a long gun is way easier to hit with- THAT matters more than what youre hitting the bad guy with. The handgun has it's own advantages of concealability and portability.

[SamHouston]

Check out the following link on a shotgun. The video on TV showed size 1 buckshot (16 pellets) going into sheetrock & an exit hole the size of a basketball on the other side. Good story but he missed.

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/15671775/detail.html#

FRISCO, Texas -- A bullet grazed a Frisco man during a shootout in his condo on Thursday.

Frisco police said Steve Geddie was lucky to have escaped alive after the shooting, which happened at his home on Hickory Creek on Thursday evening.

Geddie said he was in the bathroom when he heard an intruder breaking into his condo through the back door.

"So I'm sitting on the toilet (and) I hear this banging," he said.

Geddie said he crept through his bathroom, into his bedroom.

"(I) reached underneath my mattress, pulled up the shotgun (and) loaded up the chamber -- size one buckshot," he said.

Geddie then walked toward his living room, where he confronted the intruder, he said.

He said the man's gun was "literally right in my chest."

"My first instinct is to move to the side," Geddie said. "He grazed my shoulder on the first shot."

The man got two shots off, he said.

Geddie said he dropped the shotgun and then dove to the ground to pick it back up. Geddie said he pulled the shotgun up as the intruder headed out the door. He took a shot at the man, but missed just to the left of him, he said.

"I grabbed the shotgun up, pulled it up as he was heading out the door, and just missed to the left of him,"

"Otherwise, he would have had size-1 buckshot all through his thighs and butt," Geddie said.

Geddie's shotgun blasted 16 pellets and an 8-inch hole through his wall.

His wife, Kathryn, worked out late on Thursday. If she hadn't, she would have confronted the suspect alone, she said.

"Had it been me home, it could have been a completely different story that you're covering today," she said.

Steve Geddie, an Alaskan-born gun enthusiast, said homeowners should be prepared for incidents like he faced.

"I believe that every homeowner should be able to be prepared for self-preservation in the event that something like this happens," he said.

Geddie said his brain was the most powerful weapon he used during the incident. He was able to think his way through everything, he said.

BTW - I keep my 12 gague loaded in the closet but a 20 should be all you need.

[xrocket]

Actually Bill is right about no 00 buckshot for a .20ga. It does begin at 000. My experience is with a 12ga. only as I'm looking at getting a .20ga for my wife.

A slug in low recoil makes for a great practice round to get the feel for a new shooter. If the range will allow you to shoot it indoors at 25 yards or less this will give you the experience and ability to develop your aiming and manual of arms. #3 or 4 shot will not change the shotguns operation in a HD /PD situation from the slug, just less penetration and very slightly larger aim / hit point.

Good luck and good shooting with your choice.

[sholling]

I live in a pretty good middle class neighborhood but stuff happens. I believe in a layerd defense so I have motion sensor and dusk to dawn lights, locked gates on a 6' fence, and an alarm system. I also keep a 45 w/CT grip next to my bed along with 4 reloads. While I'm home a 12ga is next to my bed (no kids here). The 12ga has two low penetration #4 up first (I like my neighbors), followed by five full boat 00 buck in case the bad guy does not take the hint and I need additional penetration. Finally there are five 1600fps Hydra-Shok slugs in a stock cuff should I need them. Maximum flexibility to handle any situation.

[MLeake]

First, a lot of posters comment about how you don't need to aim so much. Unless they've sawed off their barrels to less than the legal limit, or are using a grandfathered horse pistol, that's just not true at in-house ranges.

The spread from my 20" slug barrel, using 00 buck, is only a few inches at 10 yards, if it's more than 2 inches. Yes, that's a greater hit area than my .45 would yield, but it's still not going to hit without being aimed. It's easier to quickly sight down the rib of a 20" barrel than down a 4 or 5 inch slide, but you still have to aim - unless you are so practiced with your weapon that you instinctively know where it will hit, in which case you will be one of those people who will automatically select that weapon for home defense anyway.

Second, while they pose some challenges for moving around a house, they are absolutely wonderful for staying put in a semi-barricaded position, while you call 911 and yell that you are armed and the cops are on the way. The racking sound of the slide on a pump gun does make a strong impression, as previously noted by other posters, though I do know of a case where a convenience store clerk made the same noise, under the counter, using an old credit card machine. (The brain is still the best weapon)

Last, my little cousin couldn't understand why my friend and I were telling him that we'd prefer a 12 gauge for a short range encounter, over, say, a tommy gun or a S&W .500. So, to make the point, we were destroying some half shot clay pigeons that had come to rest in some mud and clay on a riverbank, where I couldn't get to them for retrieval without risk of losing a boot. I leveled my 870, loaded with #7 1/2, and blasted a clay pigeon into virtual non-existence, in the process blowing a hole in the mud and clay that was about 4 inches in diameter and 8 to 10 inches deep. My cousin's eyes just about popped out of his head.

I pointed out to him that a buckshot load would have blasted in a bit deeper.

He decided we were probably right about the 12 gauges.

Cheers,

M

[cannonballmount]

If you live in town, its best not to shoot a rifle, on account that MACH3 bullet will go through too many walls, and endanger all the neighbors. A shotgun is almost as bad, on account it throws a lot of projectiles. The Brits liked a big, 200 grain plus, bullet moving at not much more than 600 fps. A lot of impact without a lot of penetration. Always try to know where that bullet is going to end up, is my advice.

[DMK]

Check out the following link on a shotgun. The video on TV showed size 1 buckshot (16 pellets) going into sheetrock & an exit hole the size of a basketball on the other side. Good story but he missed.
http://www.nbc5i.com/news/15671775/detail.html#

That story raises a good point about the portability of a handgun. He had to go to his room to retrieve the shotgun (and was very lucky that he made it unseen). He could have already had the handgun on him.

I always carry a small revolver in my pocket when I'm home. Some might call me paranoid, but if I was this in guy shoes, paranoid would have just been prepared. I've read too many of these stories, some right nearby in small town USA.

That said, I have both carbines and shotguns in the ready rack. The chances of me needing those are less than remote, but IMO it's better to not need and have, than need and not have.

[f8lranger4x4]

Shotgun. Knocvkdown power and versitile