Sheriff illegally takes away a Glock 26 from a Soccer Mom!

[OuTcAsT]

Quote:
At one point, there were lunch counters, laundromats, water fountains, neighborhoods, and other places where it was illegal for anyone who wasn't white to be or use. Blacks were relegated to the balconies of movie theaters, the back seats of buses, and were banned from many other places. Gun control itself began as a racial issue.

Please tell me you are not seriously trying to equate open carry issues with racial and sexual discrimination??? That kind of irrational thinking is what will kill gun rights.

If you are just trying to make a point about methods of fighting injustice you need to be a little more careful about drawing comparisons that could appear very offensive to people that have experienced true discrimination.

OK, When I read the statement made by divemedic, it made perfect sense to me. all groups were trying to accomplish the same goals, to have the ability to exercise their constitutional rights.

Help an ignorant member of the GP like me understand why there would be a difference? All are rights granted under law, all groups suffer discrimination to some degree, and all want to make a statement. The only difference being the personal outrage each feels within his/her own cause.

[Playboypenguin]

Help an ignorant member of the GP like me understand why there would be a difference?

You have obviously never suffered discrimination in your life. Because of that it will be hard to make you understand since you do not seem to get it on your own.

There is a huge difference between being told to cover your firearm in certain situations and being told you are somehow less of a person because of your race, gender, etc. Any reasonable, thoughtful person would not need that explained to them. Do you truly need it explained?

[divemedic]

Discrimination is discrimination, no matter the reason.

I am being equated with mass murderers, rapists, and robbers, simply because I choose to carry. It is the irrational fears of the observer that I am fighting. The only difference between concealed carry and open carry is that the anti standing next to you doesn't know that you have a gun.

Do you think that if any of those ninnies knew you had a concealed weapon that their reaction would be any different?

Maybe if you don't let them know you are part of the group being discriminated against, maybe they won't come for you.

[Playboypenguin]

Discrimination is discrimination, no matter the reason.

Spoken like someone that has never experienced it at all.

I am being equated with mass murderers, rapists, and robbers, simply because I choose to carry.

And those comparisons, if being done, are something you consider fair and valid?

[OuTcAsT]

There is a huge difference between being told to cover your firearm in certain situations and being told you are somehow less of a person because of your race, gender, etc.

The only difference being the personal outrage each feels within his/her own cause.

The different perception will certainly exist for each group, but the fact remains...

Discrimination is discrimination, no matter the reason.

And those comparisons, if being done, are something you consider fair and valid?

Absolutely not, thus the need to sometimes use 'In your face" activism (such as Ms. Hain did) to make a statement. Was it as effective as Dr. King ? Maybe, maybe not, but doing something in the face of discrimination is better than living with the status quo.

[Playboypenguin]

Absolutely not, thus the need to sometimes use 'In your face" activism

And you think your callous and unfair statements are somehow justified by similar actions by others? If you truly think that then you do not need to be using civil rights as an example of fighting injustice since you have no understanding of their methods.

You really think such statements will win over anyone? You think ticking people off will advance your agenda. I can tell you right now that you have come very close to turning even someone like myself, who is pro-gun, against your cause just based on your statements. How will do you think those tactics will work with others who are not particularly pro-gun.

[OuTcAsT]

your callous and unfair statements

just based on your statements

PBP,

If somehow my comparison was mis-construed as belittling anyones cause then I apologize. I was merely attempting to show that discrimination of ANY kind is not acceptable.

And I took no offense from this:

You have obviously never suffered discrimination in your life.

Or this:

Any reasonable, thoughtful person would not need that explained to them.

Because my question was posed in the context of the "Public-at-large"
A group that is usually not given to reasonable, nor thoughtful reaction.

No personal attack , nor disparity was intended.

[JohnKSa]

Originally Posted by alloy

right or wrong i wonder...you been exercising that right frequently at texas soccer games, or does practicality sometimes confuse issues, requiring people to make common sense adjustments?

Very good point, and humorously delivered.

For those who don't know, concealed carry at a public sporting event in TX is illegal. Open carry in TX is illegal anywhere except under certain very specific circumstances.

[divemedic]

Spoken like someone that has never experienced it at all.

The classic ad hominem* attack. Isn't this discriminatory? Are you saying I can't recognize discrimination when I see it, because I am not of your chosen demographic?

I guess most of you don't recognize that self defense is a human right, and depriving someone of their rights simply because of your own prejudices and preconceived notions is discrimination.



*An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

[Playboypenguin]

Isn't this discriminatory? Are you saying I can't recognize discrimination when I see it, because I am not of your chosen demographic?

No, it is not even discrimination. No one is saying some citizens can open carry and others cannot. You are not being discriminated against, you are wanting to do something that is generally being forbidden for all...not just you and your kind.

If you think this is discrimination you have no idea what discrimination is really like. To try and portray yourself as a victim of discrimination is demeaning to those that have actually found themselves victims of true discrimination.

[Playboypenguin]

If somehow my comparison was mis-construed as belittling anyones cause then I apologize. I was merely attempting to show that discrimination of ANY kind is not acceptable.

Apology accepted.

You really need to be careful when you start drawing comparisons. Especially when you try to compare your circumstances to examples of people experiencing true hatred and prejudice.

[divemedic]

dis⋅crim⋅i⋅na⋅tion
   /dɪˌskrɪməˈneɪʃən/ –noun
1. an act or instance of discriminating.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.


Since self defense is not a choice, but a human right, depriving someone of access because of their exercising a human right is discriminatory. Protecting your own life is no different and no more of a choice than being Jewish or Muslim.

[Playboypenguin]

Since self defense is not a choice, but a human right, depriving someone of access because of their exercising a human right is discriminatory

No, it may be unjust...but it is not discriminatory.

If they said men can open carry, but not women...that would be discriminatory.

If they said whites can open carry, but not blacks...that would be discriminatory.

If they said heterosexuals can open carry, but not homosexuals...that would be discriminatory.

[divemedic]

You are incorrect.

[Playboypenguin]

You are incorrect.

Not much of a counter, and it is also a case where you are mistaken.

You are not being denied a privilege that another group enjoys based on your race, sex, age, etc.

[divemedic]

Where is it written that discrimination is limited to age, sex, race, or gender? Read the definition above. I am being discriminated against because I am exercising my right to self defense. You obviously do not feel that self defense is a right, so I think we just have to disagree.

[Playboypenguin]

Where is it written that discrimination is limited to age, sex, race, or gender?

I said "etc"...."etc" means I am not limiting it to the items I specifically listed.

I am being discriminated against because I am exercising my right to self defense.

No, you are not. You are not being denied any right that another group enjoys. You, along with every other citizen, are being limited in how you exercise that right but you are not being discriminated against.

[JohnKSa]

divemedic,

The definition you provided in post #263 agrees perfectly with PBP's definition and is inconsistent with your interpretation of discrimination.

Since self defense is not a choice, but a human right, depriving someone of access because of their exercising a human right is discriminatory.

No, it's not. It's discriminatory if the deprivation is not universal. Otherwise it's just deprivation of rights.

Discriminate:
transitive verb
1 a: to mark or perceive the distinguishing or peculiar features of b: distinguish , differentiate <discriminate hundreds of colors>
2: to distinguish by discerning or exposing differences ; especially : to distinguish from another like object
intransitive verb
1 a: to make a distinction <discriminate among historical sources> b: to use good judgment
2: to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit <discriminate in favor of your friends> <discriminate against a certain nationality>

For example, if a black person were denied access because they were open carrying while a white person were to allowed inside while open carrying, that would be discrimination.

If NO one is allowed inside while open carrying that IS depriving everyone of the right to open carry but it's not discriminatory.

[Playboypenguin]

And, let's make it clear, I am not trying to invalidate your argument that open carry should be a less persecuted action. I am simply pointing out that it is anti-productive to misrepresent the argument. If you start trying to portray yourself as a victim of discrimination, true victims of discrimination are going to call you on it quickly and discredit you and your cause no matter how strong your other arguments.

[Bud Helms]

Okay, guys and gals, I think this one has run it's course. We are into eleven pages of discussion. I think it's just a little too much to ask to "read up" to this point to participate adequately.

Good discussion.

Closed.