Anyone build a "Fackler Box"?

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 02:00 PM

I'm thinking of building one of these, and think I have Mal convinced to donate the land and the slabwood that would be used.

Anyone build one of these?

The best solution for water containers seems to be plastic bags full of water. Anyone use anything different?

dfaugh · August 12, 2002, 02:33 PM

I've been contemplating building one, too...The one I saw pictures of (don't know where) used 1 Gallon "Ziploc" heavy bags...It was several feet long (like maybe 10) so you could do rifles testing

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 02:49 PM

Yeah, there was an article in American Rifleman (I think) about building the Fackler box.

dZ · August 12, 2002, 02:56 PM

Building a “Fackler” Box: Performance Testing Your Own Ammunition
When it comes to ammunition performance, ballistic charts and manufacturer’s specifications are a good starting point, but have you ever wondered how your carry ammunition will perform from your firearm? By following the instructions in this simple “how-to” article you can be sure if the load you have selected is right for you.

http://swatmagazine.com/archives/feb_2002/summary.htm

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 03:05 PM

http://swatmagazine...

When I click the link it returns a "page not found" error...

**Mal H** · August 12, 2002, 03:08 PM

Thanks dZ. I didn't remember that article.

I've got that issue Mike. It has complete instructions for the box.

Denny Hansen · August 12, 2002, 03:13 PM

Let us know how it comes out.

Denny

**Mal H** · August 12, 2002, 03:17 PM

Will do.

**Rich Lucibella** · August 12, 2002, 03:20 PM

Mike-
The link works for me.
Rich

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 03:21 PM

So when do you want to knock one of these critters together, Mal?

I figure an hour or two for construction, we can use your tractor to get water down to fill the bags, I'll provide the hammer, nails, bagies, etc.

I'll even bring along a pack of hotdogs for the chronograph.

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 03:22 PM

Rich, weird.

This is what I get when I click the link:

http://swatmagazine.com/archives/feb_2002/ssm.js

After about 5-10 seconds it takes me to the SWAT home page.

labgrade · August 12, 2002, 03:24 PM

Keep in mind that all you'll do with the F-box is compare ammo-to-ammo when it shoots through a lot of bags of water.

Decent enough comparison "machine," but doesn't mean squat regards terminal effects.

**Mal H** · August 12, 2002, 03:25 PM

Well, I guess we could use the tractor, but wouldn't the water faucet I have down there be more convenient?

I have all the tools necessary. But we may have to make a run to Home Depot for some oddball stuff.

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 03:27 PM

Hey! That's special!

The link works just fine in Internet Explorer, but not in my employer's standard Netcrap browser.

I keep forgetting that quaint little problem.

Geez.

As for the Feb 2002 issue, I THINK that I got my subscription just after that. I'll have to look in my "back issues" pile, which is kept, conveniently, right beside my "personal issues" pile.

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 03:29 PM

Lab,

I think the conversion that Fackler uses is something to the effect that a bullet will penetrate 1.3 times farther in ballistic gelatin than it will in water, so there is a rough conversion that can be used.

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 03:30 PM

Mal, you've got a faucet down there? Nice.

I figured we'd have to have your bevy of servants form a bucket brigade.

Since you're hosting this little exercise in futility, I defer to your schedule, and thank you in advance.

labgrade · August 12, 2002, 03:39 PM

Yup Mike, I'm good on that.

Bored enough is all & I'm posting replies on threads I have no interest in.

Too, even ballistic jell-o ain't meat w/bones 'n stuff. Good enough for comparison purposes ... yada.

I know! Maybe we could get some goats, wire 'em up, and .....

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 03:42 PM

Hey Lab,

You want goats?

Read my latest thread on the Hitach (Magsafe) page I just came across.

We can get into the big debate about how to rate stopping power again, but for my money, and all the research I've done on it, I'm sticking most strongly with Fackler's work with gelatin. It actually correlates well with what is seen in police shootings.

labgrade · August 12, 2002, 03:52 PM

I'm there, Mike.

Whole reason I stuck in the jolly-face when bringing up goats.

Jim V · August 12, 2002, 05:23 PM

Hmmmmm, 3 1"X12'X8' boards. Cut 1' off each board. Cut an 8" hole in the center of two of the 1'X1' pieces. Nail or screw the 3 7' long boards together to make a I_I. Nail or screw the solid 1'X1' piece at one end and use one of the pieces with the hole at the other. Now you have an open top 7' long box. Fasten the last 1x1 piece in the center of the box for support. Nail a few braces across the open top. Use 1 gallon Ziplock(tm) food bags full of water and stand them on edge. Shoot thru the 8" opening.

Oh, yes, drill drain holes in the bottom of the box and expect to get wet.

Chuck Dye · August 12, 2002, 07:59 PM

Guys, do not drill drain holes in the bottom of the box. Build your bottom on a slant to the rear and drill ONE drain hole. Slather the whole interior w/ some cheap epoxie or other waterproof paint and drain the water to a big bucket and reuse it or install a hose to channel it elsewhere. You will cut down on the mud making or relocate it to an acceptable location.

This was one of our "Well DUHHH!!" moments with ours.

Denny Hansen · August 12, 2002, 08:21 PM

Mike,
IIRC 1.55 is the correct factor to use when using water instead of jello.

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2002, 09:13 PM

Denny,

thanks. I knew it was in that zone somewhere.

August 12, 2002, 02:00 PM	#1
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Anyone build a "Fackler Box"? I'm thinking of building one of these, and think I have Mal convinced to donate the land and the slabwood that would be used. Anyone build one of these? The best solution for water containers seems to be plastic bags full of water. Anyone use anything different? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 02:33 PM	#2
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	I've been contemplating building one, too...The one I saw pictures of (don't know where) used 1 Gallon "Ziploc" heavy bags...It was several feet long (like maybe 10) so you could do rifles testing __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

August 12, 2002, 02:49 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Yeah, there was an article in American Rifleman (I think) about building the Fackler box. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 02:56 PM	#4
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	Building a “Fackler” Box: Performance Testing Your Own Ammunition When it comes to ammunition performance, ballistic charts and manufacturer’s specifications are a good starting point, but have you ever wondered how your carry ammunition will perform from your firearm? By following the instructions in this simple “how-to” article you can be sure if the load you have selected is right for you. http://swatmagazine.com/archives/feb_2002/summary.htm __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

August 12, 2002, 03:05 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	http://swatmagazine... When I click the link it returns a "page not found" error... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 03:08 PM	#6
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,956	Thanks dZ. I didn't remember that article. I've got that issue Mike. It has complete instructions for the box.

August 12, 2002, 03:13 PM	#7
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	Let us know how it comes out. Denny __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

August 12, 2002, 03:17 PM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,956	Will do.

August 12, 2002, 03:20 PM	#9
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Mike- The link works for me. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

August 12, 2002, 03:21 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	So when do you want to knock one of these critters together, Mal? I figure an hour or two for construction, we can use your tractor to get water down to fill the bags, I'll provide the hammer, nails, bagies, etc. I'll even bring along a pack of hotdogs for the chronograph. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 03:22 PM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Rich, weird. This is what I get when I click the link: http://swatmagazine.com/archives/feb_2002/ssm.js After about 5-10 seconds it takes me to the SWAT home page. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 03:24 PM	#12
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Keep in mind that all you'll do with the F-box is compare ammo-to-ammo when it shoots through a lot of bags of water. Decent enough comparison "machine," but doesn't mean squat regards terminal effects.

August 12, 2002, 03:25 PM	#13
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,956	Well, I guess we could use the tractor, but wouldn't the water faucet I have down there be more convenient? I have all the tools necessary. But we may have to make a run to Home Depot for some oddball stuff.

August 12, 2002, 03:27 PM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Hey! That's special! The link works just fine in Internet Explorer, but not in my employer's standard Netcrap browser. I keep forgetting that quaint little problem. Geez. As for the Feb 2002 issue, I THINK that I got my subscription just after that. I'll have to look in my "back issues" pile, which is kept, conveniently, right beside my "personal issues" pile. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 03:29 PM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Lab, I think the conversion that Fackler uses is something to the effect that a bullet will penetrate 1.3 times farther in ballistic gelatin than it will in water, so there is a rough conversion that can be used. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 03:30 PM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Mal, you've got a faucet down there? Nice. I figured we'd have to have your bevy of servants form a bucket brigade. Since you're hosting this little exercise in futility, I defer to your schedule, and thank you in advance. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 03:39 PM	#17
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Yup Mike, I'm good on that. Bored enough is all & I'm posting replies on threads I have no interest in. Too, even ballistic jell-o ain't meat w/bones 'n stuff. Good enough for comparison purposes ... yada. I know! Maybe we could get some goats, wire 'em up, and .....

August 12, 2002, 03:42 PM	#18
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Hey Lab, You want goats? Read my latest thread on the Hitach (Magsafe) page I just came across. We can get into the big debate about how to rate stopping power again, but for my money, and all the research I've done on it, I'm sticking most strongly with Fackler's work with gelatin. It actually correlates well with what is seen in police shootings. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2002, 03:52 PM	#19
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	I'm there, Mike. Whole reason I stuck in the jolly-face when bringing up goats.

August 12, 2002, 05:23 PM	#20
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	Hmmmmm, 3 1"X12'X8' boards. Cut 1' off each board. Cut an 8" hole in the center of two of the 1'X1' pieces. Nail or screw the 3 7' long boards together to make a I_I. Nail or screw the solid 1'X1' piece at one end and use one of the pieces with the hole at the other. Now you have an open top 7' long box. Fasten the last 1x1 piece in the center of the box for support. Nail a few braces across the open top. Use 1 gallon Ziplock(tm) food bags full of water and stand them on edge. Shoot thru the 8" opening. Oh, yes, drill drain holes in the bottom of the box and expect to get wet. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

August 12, 2002, 07:59 PM	#21
Chuck Dye Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Location: Oregon-The wet side. Posts: 949	Guys, do not drill drain holes in the bottom of the box. Build your bottom on a slant to the rear and drill ONE drain hole. Slather the whole interior w/ some cheap epoxie or other waterproof paint and drain the water to a big bucket and reuse it or install a hose to channel it elsewhere. You will cut down on the mud making or relocate it to an acceptable location. This was one of our "Well DUHHH!!" moments with ours. __________________ Gee, I'd love to see your data!

August 12, 2002, 08:21 PM	#22
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	Mike, IIRC 1.55 is the correct factor to use when using water instead of jello. __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

August 12, 2002, 09:13 PM	#23
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Denny, thanks. I knew it was in that zone somewhere. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.