Will I do any damage to my pistol by cycling the slide

[totaldla]

I'm not a 1911 expert in real life, nor do I play one on YouTube, but the slide stop pin sloppiness is really only an issue if the slide stop starts walking out while you're shooting. The link-pin is only dragging stuff back and forth - the "slop" is not an interesting factor. Now if the barrel feet were getting beat to death by slamming the slide then accuracy would degrade.

I've heard the theory that a trigger job can get messed up by slide slamming, and maybe if the trigger is set to 2lbs that is true.

I don't like slide slamming because it "seems" like it is hard on stuff - but the other side of my brain tells me to chill.

[FITASC]

Ruger is adamant about NOT using the slide stop/release on their MKII pistols as it will cause wear and tear that is not the norm - ask me how I know

[1911Tuner]

In a 1911...the problem isn't with the slidestop pin hole, nor is it with the sear, nor the extractor. The problem lies with the impact between the lower lug feet and the slidestop crosspin. That's ultimately what brings it all to a halt.

Remove the barrel and slip the slidestop pin through the link. Rotate it to the in-battery position and look at the small contact patch, then think about all that slide mass crashing into those lug feet.

[Metric]

If I were in the market for a high-precision pistol, I would avoid buying the "display example" at the gun shop for exactly this reason. Even if there are no visible marks from handling, who knows how many times some local yokel has slammed the slide home on an empty chamber?

Here are Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn discussing the effects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AuVd0qycrc

[Skans]

If I owned a gun shop, I wouldn't let anyone work the action on a new gun. I'd have some demos or used guns on hand for customers to play with. New guns should stay new. Rent and try. Buy one and try it. Or, play with one of the well-used guns to see if it "fits" you.

The truth is that 1) you don't need to rack the slide and mash the gun-buttons to see if a gun fits you; 2) you won't be able to tell if a particular gun is right for you until you put at least a box of ammo through it; and 3) most people can learn to shoot a wide variety of guns well as long as the grip's not too big or small for their hand.

I have bought a crap-ton of guns without ever racking the slide and/or mashing buttons. In fact, no one buying guns off of gun broker gets to mash the buttons or rack the slide.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Skans

If I owned a gun shop, I wouldn't let anyone work the action on a new gun. I'd have some demos or used guns on hand for customers to play with. New guns should stay new. Rent and try. Buy one and try it. Or, play with one of the well-used guns to see if it "fits" you.

The truth is that 1) you don't need to rack the slide and mash the gun-buttons to see if a gun fits you; 2) you won't be able to tell if a particular gun is right for you until you put at least a box of ammo through it; and 3) most people can learn to shoot a wide variety of guns well as long as the grip's not too big or small for their hand.

I have bought a crap-ton of guns without ever racking the slide and/or mashing buttons. In fact, no one buying guns off of gun broker gets to mash the buttons or rack the slide.

Depending on your hand size, “mashing the buttons” can have plenty of meaning. Can you get to the magazine release and slide release? At the position of them do you have the strength in your hand to engage or disengage them reliably? Yes, smaller hands can make larger guns work, but if I am comparing models and I find them equal in other ways, then that difference may be a deciding factor.

I sure as heck am going to “mash buttons” on whatever model I intend to pay money for to confirm function before I leave the store with that firearm. And yeah if I want to I even rack the slide, generally more as a function of confirming the trigger will reset. To your point of, “You can’t do that on GunBroker”, you’re right I can’t. Which is part of the reason I am willing to pay more for a firearm I can handle in person.

[georgehwbush]

if i might venture a though here; i didn't see anyone mention that in a gun store, and even more so in a large general store (think walmart) there is also the issue of desensitizing the staff to the sound of a action loading a live round if they hear empty chamber sounds all day. in some places that could and should be a safety concern.

[tangolima]

When I handle a gun at store, I always ask permission for working the slide and dry firing. Occasionally they decline. No problem I just don't buy the gun there. Very occasionally they would make silly comments like "buy it and you can do that all day". For that I just stop going there altogether. There are a few such places in town.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[georgehwbush]

yeah the wrong hired help can ruin a business.

[Skans]

Originally Posted by tangolima

When I handle a gun at store, I always ask permission for working the slide and dry firing. Occasionally they decline. No problem I just don't buy the gun there. Very occasionally they would make silly comments like "buy it and you can do that all day". For that I just stop going there altogether. There are a few such places in town.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Then, I have to ask, are you going to buy the gun on display with evidence showing that the slide has been racked by previous customers? If I'm buying a new gun, I don't want the one that has been handled by 150 customers wanting to "rack the slide".

I have racked the slide on hundreds, maybe thousands of guns. And, in all that time, there is only one gun that had anything special about the slide. A C-Series Hi-Power that must have had some work done to it to make it glide as if on 1000 ball bearings. Yeah, I bought that one.

[tangolima]

I did. I have bought a few new guns. I worked the slide, dry fired, and even field striped, with permission of course. They didn't have "evidence", but pretty sure other customers had looked at them before me. I didn't slam the slide though. It is detestable . Similarly I have brought new cars that had been test driven too.

Why? You may asked. They are brand new guns. The slide has never been pulled back. Fully warrantied. Exactly. I don't want to send back a brand new gun for small imperfections that I could have detected before I pay for it. I understand if a shop doesn't allow customer to examine their products. Giving me the attitude doesn't make me understand more. But there are other shops who don't mind and don't charge more. So why not?

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[stagpanther]

Very occasionally they would make silly comments like "buy it and you can do that all day".

Doesn't seem silly to me, that's probably what I would do if I had a gun shop. The flip side of that is knowing that EVERY gun they have on display could be bubbadubba damaged and you are the one gets stuck with it once it goes out the door.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Doesn't seem silly to me, that's probably what I would do if I had a gun shop. The flip side of that is knowing that EVERY gun they have on display could be bubbadubba damaged and you are the one gets stuck with it once it goes out the door.

What bubbadubba damage do you imagine is happening from people manipulating the controls? “Most” new production pistols should be okay. Of course someone can go crazy, but I think there’s a middle ground here between not being allowed to manipulate a firearm at all and going to town for minutes on end.

In terms of dropping the slide on an empty chamber, Brownells did a video on this that seems decent to me.
https://youtu.be/OK88VyZfs7k?si=JKK9FrIx9xAp4ZQf

There’s also nothing stopping you from examining the pistol yourself before you do, or don’t, buy it.

[stagpanther]

What bubbadubba damage do you imagine is happening from people manipulating the controls? “Most” new production pistols should be okay. Of course someone can go crazy, but I think there’s a middle ground here between not being allowed to manipulate a firearm at all and going to town for minutes on end.

In terms of dropping the slide on an empty chamber, Brownells did a video on this that seems decent to me.
https://youtu.be/OK88VyZfs7k?si=JKK9FrIx9xAp4ZQf

There’s also nothing stopping you from examining the pistol yourself before you do, or don’t, buy it.

It's the difference between NIB and used. I'll buy the display--but I'll buy it as used.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

It's the difference between NIB and used. I'll buy the display--but I'll buy it as used.

Around me used firearms generally start at 80% the price of the equivalent new model if they are both in current production to encourage people to buy used. By extension of that you’re expecting a 20% discount on a firearm just because it was a display model. That seems nuts to me, but if you find a store willing to do that more power to you.

[stagpanther]

Around me used firearms generally start at 80% the price of the equivalent new model if they are both in current production to encourage people to buy new. By extension of that you’re expecting a 20% discount on a firearm just because it was a display model. That seems nuts to me, but if you find a store willing to do that more power to you.

To each his or her own. You're buying "mystery meat" when you buy a display model--and once it leaves the store you're going to have a hard time proving it wasn't on you anything that might be wrong with it. Chances are they'll say something to the effect "tough luck, see if the manufacturer is willing to fess up." I've been burned way too many times to accept anything that isn't NIB. If you happen to have a very good trusting relationship with the store--in other words you know they will replace the item with no hassle should you find something wrong--that's a different story, in that case I'd risk it--maybe.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

To each his or her own. You're buying "mystery meat" when you buy a display model--and once it leaves the store you're going to have a hard time proving it wasn't on you anything that might be wrong with it. Chances are they'll say something to the effect "tough luck, see if the manufacturer is willing to fess up." I've been burned way too many times to accept anything that isn't NIB. If you happen to have a very good trusting relationship with the store--in other words you know they will replace the item with no hassle should you find something wrong--that's a different, in that case I'd risk it--maybe.

What you just described is exactly the reason I want to be able to function check the pistol in the first place. It’s not just other people in the store that can screw up firearms. I have seen firearms from the manufacturer direct that had issues, hence the function check. If the dealer is willing to grab the same SKU from the back that isn’t the display model, then sure I grab that. But I don’t always have that luxury. If a store isn’t willing to let me function check a firearm I don’t patronize that store. But that means I have to let other people function check firearms as well.

[JohnKSa]

What you just described is exactly the reason I want to be able to function check the pistol in the first place.

"Function-checking" the display model isn't really productive unless you're going to buy the display model.

I see a lot of people messing with the display gun, then putting it back and asking for a new one from the back. If they were really checking for function, they would buy the one they checked or check the one they buy.

I agree that the store should allow people to do function checks--especially since a lot of stores these days will make you deal with the manufacturer if there's a problem. Function checking would include things like running the slide, dryfiring, etc. I don't know what function is checked by dropping the slide on an empty chamber--a person can tell if the slide stop is working without making all that noise and slamming metal parts against each other...

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

"Function-checking" the display model isn't really productive unless you're going to buy the display model.

I see a lot of people messing with the display gun, then putting it back and asking for a new one from the back. If they were really checking for function, they would buy the one they checked or check the one they buy.

I agree that the store should allow people to do function checks--especially since a lot of stores these days will make you deal with the manufacturer if there's a problem. Function checking would include things like running the slide, dryfiring, etc. I don't know what function is checked by dropping the slide on an empty chamber--a person can tell if the slide stop is working without making all that noise and slamming metal parts against each other...

Reasons I would function check the display model because:
1. I want to be sure I understand how the firearm functions.
2. As I said above, I have been in situations where the display model is all that is available. If the store isn’t busy I’ll ask if that’s the case, though the stores near me are short handed these days.

While I get that you’re speaking generally, I do function check the model I actually buy.

I don’t believe I ever endorsed slamming a slide when it isn’t necessary. That said, I have been with people that have limited hand strength and wanted to be sure they had the strength to drop the slide. Granted dropping the slide on an empty magazine is not the same as dropping the slide on a magazine with a round in it, but we don’t all have the luxury of traveling with snap caps or dummy rounds. It’s been my experience that most new production pistols can handle that, even if I don’t personally endorse it.

[JohnKSa]

Reasons I would function check the display model because:
1. I want to be sure I understand how the firearm functions.

Ah. I see. That use of the term 'function check' is a bit unorthodox. The term "function check" means to test the firearm to verify that it is functioning properly. Obviously, then, a person who does not understand how a firearm functions can not perform a function check. Manipulating the firearm in an attempt to gain an understanding of how it functions/learn how it works would not normally be called a "function check". It would be called something like 'familiarization' or just 'finding out how it operates', I suppose.

...I have been in situations where the display model is all that is available.

Right. in which case, my comments, which are specifically about function checking the display model and then buying one from the back, would not apply

...wanted to be sure they had the strength to drop the slide...

That could be the one valid reason to drop a slide in a store on a handgun one does not intend to buy. I think if a likely buyer can articulate what they want to do and asks politely, they would most often be allowed to go through with the test.

...most new production pistols can handle that...

Sure. I would go so far as to say they all can. Just like any new production car can go several hundred miles without any significant wear and tear or needing any service. Still, most people would rather their new car have as close to 0 miles on the odometer as possible, even if one with 700 miles on it is, for all intents and purposes going to have the same useful lifetime left. And most dealers would likely get a bit irritated if you took a car for a test drive and brought it back with several hundred miles on the odometer.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Ah. I see. That use of the term 'function check' is a bit unorthodox. The term "function check" means to test the firearm to verify that it is functioning properly. Obviously, then, a person who does not understand how a firearm functions can not perform a function check. Manipulating the firearm in an attempt to gain an understanding of how it functions/learn how it works would not normally be called a "function check". It would be called something like 'familiarization' or just 'finding out how it operates', I suppose.Right. in which case, my comments, which are specifically about function checking the display model and then buying one from the back, would not applyThat could be the one valid reason to drop a slide in a store on a handgun one does not intend to buy. I think if a likely buyer can articulate what they want to do and asks politely, they would most often be allowed to go through with the test.Sure. I would go so far as to say they all can. Just like any new production car can go several hundred miles without any significant wear and tear or needing any service. Still, most people would rather their new car have as close to 0 miles on the odometer as possible, even if one with 700 miles on it is, for all intents and purposes going to have the same useful lifetime left. And most dealers would likely get a bit irritated if you took a car for a test drive and brought it back with several hundred miles on the odometer.

For myself it is rare that I handle a firearm that I don’t know something about first, either through reading about it or watching a video of it. My free time is limited these days so when I go into a gun store it is generally for the purpose of handling something I know they have and I know that I am close to buying. In that case I already have a good idea of how the firearm functions (as well as experience from the firearms I have owned up to now), but I am confirming for myself that what I read or watched was correct (as I have had instances where it was not). I understand that not every person is the same way, but since we seem to be discussing what I do that is my explanation of why I used “function check” in my point 1 above, as for me I am often combining familiarization and performing a function check.

As I said in an earlier comment, people seem to be excluding the possibility of a middle ground. Just as in your example, the only two options for a test drive are not:
1. Having a dealer say you can look at the car and sit in it, but not drive it.
2. Driving for 700 miles.

I am not nor have I advocated for the second. The manipulations I am describing generally take me less than a minute. I can break down the explicit order, but that seems excessive.

Are there people that in my mind enter the realm of excessive in a gun store? Sure, but those people, in my observations, are often offset by those that never go beyond holding the firearm. To extend that to your analogy, I know of cases where cars were sold with little to no test drive.

The advantage with a car is that you actually have an odometer, whereas a firearm admittedly does not. This is why inspection of a firearm is to me important, and that includes a function check. I can understand some thinking that as a whole we can get around this by not allowing anyone to manipulate the firearm in the first place, but as I mentioned above I have seen firearms have problems from the manufacturer.

Before we lose the forest for the trees, I want to bring back the context of the comments to which I was replying, because that context matters. I am making a case for why manipulating a firearm in a gun store has a purpose, as we have some on here explicitly arguing that a person should not be allowed to do so by the staff of that store. I do understand that doing so could be argued to either lessen the value or even lessen the life of what is being sold as a new firearm. That is something I can accept. If others do not accept that, I might suggest either finding a store that restricts manipulations or buying online directly from a number of drop shippers selling firearms these days.

[stagpanther]

I didn't say I was against having a display model in an LGS. I didn't say I was against people trying them before buying them. I didn't say I saw no logic in manipulating it first before purchasing. What I said was is that I fully get it that a store would say buy it first then play to your heart's content.

He may be a small outfit that doesn't get the wholesale pricing edge from his distributer that a big outfit might. He might not be able to stock enough of them to write off a display model. He might not sell enough in volume to justify potentially eating the loss. He might not even be allowed by his insurance policy to take the added risk of hands on manipulation by strangers of unknown intentions/experience/intelligence levels.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

I didn't say I was against having a display model in an LGS. I didn't say I was against people trying them before buying them. I didn't say I saw no logic in manipulating it first before purchasing. What I said was is that I fully get it that a store would say buy it first then play to your heart's content.

To be clear, in terms of the remarks I just made, you’re not the only person to whom I responded in this thread. Not all of my previous comments were directed at you.

[Nathan]

I agree it should be done, but not hourly. Same as dropping the hammer on an empty chamber.

The stores don’t want you to do it because the MIM parts can disintegrate and they are stuck with the warranty claim which they prefer to pass to you.

That said, it is an extreme check for action stability, durability or reliability. It exceeds most normal use. That said, if dropping the slide damages the gun within 1000 cycles, do you want to own that gun? How will the other dynamic forces affect that gun? If the sear jumps on a dropped slide I want to know that now vs after I’m deep into owning it!

[TunnelRat]

[QUOTE=Nathan;6970893
The stores don’t want you to do it because the MIM parts can disintegrate and they are stuck with the warranty claim which they prefer to pass to you.
[/QUOTE]

It’s hard to read sarcasm online so I honesty don’t know whether the above is tongue in cheek or serious. If it were serious, HK tends to make pretty extensive use of MIM and there are recorded examples of say the USP line and P series lines of pistols going tens of thousands of rounds without breakages. I’m not sure handling in the store is going to trump that. MIM can be done well, or not. I do understand the desire for a new pistol with as little wear as possible.