.460 Smith Cylinder Gap=Thumb Blown Clean Off! - Page 3

the_reaper · June 14, 2009, 08:27 PM

I may be 10 months late, but I just stumbled across this thread.

The photo azredhawk44 referenced on the first page was actually taken by
me, and first posted in the thread here:
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=664580

Your thread is in reference to a .460
If you notice, my photo is of a 500.

My wife held the revolver per my instructions so I could show people how
the accident victim had to have been holding his firearm for the accident to
have occurred.

It was NOT intended to show a proper two-hand grip as azredhawk44 says.

I don't mind people using my images, but get the story straight.

azredhawk44 · June 14, 2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

I may be 10 months late, but I just stumbled across this thread.

The photo azredhawk44 referenced on the first page was actually taken by
me, and first posted in the thread here:
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=664580

Your thread is in reference to a .460
If you notice, my photo is of a 500.

My wife held the revolver per my instructions so I could show people how
the accident victim had to have been holding his firearm for the accident to
have occurred.

It was NOT intended to show a proper two-hand grip as azredhawk44 says.

I don't mind people using my images, but get the story straight.

Here's the pic in question:

"I'll recreate the grip tomorrow..."

Evidently this picture is to be construed as a recreation of the grip posture of the genius in question who blew his thumb off.

Quote:

It was NOT intended to show a proper two-hand grip as azredhawk44 says.

Nope, and I did not mean for my post to imply that it is acceptable to stick your hand in front of the revolver cylinder. Quite the opposite.

Didn't know it was your wife's hands. The lady takes lovely care of her hands. Aside from sticking them in dangerous places of an X-frame revolver.

I'm sorry for any confusion I may have helped to create.

BlueTrain · June 15, 2009, 07:15 AM

I was under the impression that the problem was avoided by the requirement to hold your cigar with your other hand while shooting, if not otherwise required for holding onto a speeding pursuit car while standing on the running board. And by the way, no one that thinks S&W revolvers are overpriced has one, right?

davlandrum · June 15, 2009, 10:30 AM

Caught "Mythbusters" last night where they "tested" this. They built a hand out of chicken bones and sewed chicken meat around the bones to make a simulated hand.

It did exactly what is was supposed to do, severed one digit and severly mangled another.

I own the 8" .460, and it takes a lot of practice to get the balance with a tea cup grip - but I don't plan on losing a finger, so practice a lot.

Dave

PT111 · June 15, 2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

This guy will not win in court. S&W did their homework, and "Read Manual Before Use" is probably printed right on the side of the barrel. Their lawyers will have him for lunch, and he will lose his own lawyer fee too. (in addition to his ER co-pay)

I would not bet on that. Never underestimate the sympathy of a jury against a corporation.

Glenn E. Meyer · June 15, 2009, 11:08 AM

On CourtTV there was a case of a guy who dropped a Ruger Single Action revolver and shot himself. Even though Ruger had sent out notices about the free modification available and the manual set chamber under the hammer empty on the older guns - he sued.

But he lost! The jury went for Ruger - BUT - DA DAH! Ruger still paid him a bit after the lost so they wouldn't appeal.

So you may never know the real outcome. Suits disappear and money changes hands and no one talks.

breed · June 15, 2009, 12:51 PM

we all do stupid things every now and then. no one's fault but his own. it would seem know one take's personal responsibility any more. we had a case on the news a few weeks back were a cop pulled over some kids one night. and one of them threw some pot out the window of the car. when asked what it was he told the truth. so this officer called for back up. well the officer responding runs threw the middle of town at speeds of 100+ and manege's to run off a straight and empty road and kill's his self. now they are blaming the kids for this idiot's death.

PT111 · June 15, 2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

On CourtTV there was a case of a guy who dropped a Ruger Single Action revolver and shot himself. Even though Ruger had sent out notices about the free modification available and the manual set chamber under the hammer empty on the older guns - he sued.

But he lost! The jury went for Ruger - BUT - DA DAH! Ruger still paid him a bit after the lost so they wouldn't appeal.

So you may never know the real outcome. Suits disappear and money changes hands and no one talks.

I have a friend that went through a divorce his wife got almost nothing to her and her lawyer's shock and surprise. She appealed the case to the State Supreme Court (she did have some legitimate grounds). My friend's lawyer, who was his uncle, said that they could fight it and he had evidence that had never even been brought out that was greatly in his favor (pictures etc.). However the finrst thing that he would need (his uncle) was a retainer for $100,000. He said that was about the minimum price for carrying a case to the State Supreme Court. He settled with her for much less.

The only winners in most lawsuits are the lawyers. Even when you hear about these big settlements when the appeals and settlements get through the person get a small fraction of the deal.

Doodlebugger45 · June 15, 2009, 02:15 PM

I've been curious about the outcome of this case ever since I first heard about it. Does anyone know if it's been settled yet?

A few times when I've been shooting my 44 from a bench, I have tried a few "unorthodox" grips and it is rather easy to let a finger or thumb kind of creep close to the gap if you're not aware of what you're doing. That's the point to getting proper instruction though is so you maintain that awareness.

Years ago though I mentioned to a buddy of mine that I had found that in the field if you lay on your back and use your ankle as a rest, you can get a very steady rest and sight picture with a long barreled 44 mag. He agreed but warned me that he was doing the same thing one time in an extended session and actually set the bottom of his Wranglers on fire!

The flash from the barrel/cylinder was hot enough to ignite clothing. I never forgot that story and it impressed me enough not to ever get my fingers close to that area. But still... I know a 44 mag is not a 460, but wouldn't you think that flash would be enough to completely cut through my pants and leather boot top as well? I'm qute certain now that I think about it that I have had that barrel/cylinder gap resting mighty close if not touching fabric during bench sessions. I've seen some nasty black marks on an old jacket, but no gaping holes from that. Is a 460 flash that much more intense than a 44 mag?

davlandrum · June 15, 2009, 02:22 PM

I put a leather work glove on a rest to pad it. First it blew out all the seams, then started burning holes in it. The glove was underneath the frame - not right at the side where the blast is the worst.

1 shot, brand new leather bag rest - sliced clean through.

It is wicked, but oh, so fun to shoot.

45Colt_Man · June 15, 2009, 05:35 PM

Trial is scheduled for September 28, 2009. Info is from Smith & Wesson Holdings Quarterly Report.

rantingredneck · June 15, 2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Caught "Mythbusters" last night where they "tested" this. They built a hand out of chicken bones and sewed chicken meat around the bones to make a simulated hand.

Yeah I saw that one too last night. Adam was saying he doubted it would happen and I was thinking, "You just wait for the results".....

I've never owned or fired a .460 or .500, but I had a .454 Casull for a few years. Killed a few deer with it. Also still have a few burn marks in one of my bag rests from it.

I certainly wouldn't go hanging my thumb or finger out there in front of the cylinder.

Deaf Smith · June 15, 2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

I certainly wouldn't go hanging my thumb or finger out there in front of the cylinder.

ANY revolver cylinder. Keep in mind guys while the .460 has maybe 50,000 CUP, even a .357 Magnum has 35,000 CUP pressure. And the .38 Special 18,000 CUP.

I have no doubt the 'weaker' rounds will cut you to the bone at the flash gap. You see, if you put a tip of your finger near the muzzle of a .22, it will blow the flesh off to the bone m(and there is another Mythbuster for them to explore!) Now if a .22 will do that, then just about any round will do you grevious harm.

Remember that. Keep your mitts around the grip, where they belong.

Jayhawkhuntclub · June 17, 2009, 12:27 PM

How big of a weenie do you have to be to need a 460 to kill a deer?

Knowing S & W they will put a shroud and lock on it covered in warning.

davlandrum · June 17, 2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

How big of a weenie do you have to be to need a 460 to kill a deer?

When you find out, let me know - because I must be that big of a weenie!

Seriously - it is a lot harder than just pulling out my -06 and going hunting.

tmd11111 · June 17, 2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

How big of a weenie do you have to be to need a 460 to kill a deer?

What kind of stupid ass comment is that to make? Tell me, is it any different then using a 30-06? Or how about a 7mm mag? I know it must be the 300 win mag? Is that it..... Or maybe I should just use a frigging hammer and hit them over the head. Your dumb ass comment just shows your ignorant and you dont have a clue to what your talking about.

Pbearperry · June 17, 2009, 03:07 PM

This guys Mom must live near me.About 15 years ago,a lady sued Sears because when she put her miniature Poodle in the Sears microvave after bathing it,the dog blew up.She told the Judge that she thought the microwave oven would dry Fifi off.
The Judge asked her if she read the instructions and she said yes.He then asked her about having to pierce solid foods like potatos and meat before cooking them and she said yes.He then said,piercing things with a fork first should have raised enough red flags.Case dismissed.

davlandrum · June 17, 2009, 03:29 PM

Pbear -

Sorry, internet myth (myth actually pre-dates the internet)
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp

Uncle Billy · June 18, 2009, 11:24 AM

The lawyer who drafted the case against S&W for numbnuts use of a revolver reminds me of the joke that defines SOME (not all) lawyers:

Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?
A: One's a slime-sucking bottom dweller and the other has fins.

Double Naught Spy · June 18, 2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

The lawyer who drafted the case against S&W for numbnuts use of a revolver reminds me of the joke that defines SOME (not all) lawyers:

Remember that the lawyers are operating within the limits of the law. If you don't like these sorts of laws, work with your appropriate representatives to change the laws.

Uncle Billy · June 18, 2009, 03:35 PM

The law ought not to be the final arbiter of what's honorable, what's responsible, what defines fairness, character, integrity, decency, honesty, reasonability or any other virtue that defines a decent person, a good citizen or a responsible adult. These aspects of a person's character are mandatory in individuals if society is to function at all, the law notwithstanding.

June 15, 2009, 07:15 AM	#53
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	I was under the impression that the problem was avoided by the requirement to hold your cigar with your other hand while shooting, if not otherwise required for holding onto a speeding pursuit car while standing on the running board. And by the way, no one that thinks S&W revolvers are overpriced has one, right? __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 15, 2009, 10:30 AM	#54
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Caught "Mythbusters" last night where they "tested" this. They built a hand out of chicken bones and sewed chicken meat around the bones to make a simulated hand. It did exactly what is was supposed to do, severed one digit and severly mangled another. I own the 8" .460, and it takes a lot of practice to get the balance with a tea cup grip - but I don't plan on losing a finger, so practice a lot. Dave __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

June 15, 2009, 11:08 AM	#56
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	On CourtTV there was a case of a guy who dropped a Ruger Single Action revolver and shot himself. Even though Ruger had sent out notices about the free modification available and the manual set chamber under the hammer empty on the older guns - he sued. But he lost! The jury went for Ruger - BUT - DA DAH! Ruger still paid him a bit after the lost so they wouldn't appeal. So you may never know the real outcome. Suits disappear and money changes hands and no one talks. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

June 15, 2009, 02:22 PM	#60
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	I put a leather work glove on a rest to pad it. First it blew out all the seams, then started burning holes in it. The glove was underneath the frame - not right at the side where the blast is the worst. 1 shot, brand new leather bag rest - sliced clean through. It is wicked, but oh, so fun to shoot. __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

June 17, 2009, 03:29 PM	#68
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Pbear - Sorry, internet myth (myth actually pre-dates the internet) http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

June 14, 2009, 08:27 PM	#51
the_reaper Junior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Posts: 1	I may be 10 months late, but I just stumbled across this thread. The photo azredhawk44 referenced on the first page was actually taken by me, and first posted in the thread here: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=664580 Your thread is in reference to a .460 If you notice, my photo is of a 500. My wife held the revolver per my instructions so I could show people how the accident victim had to have been holding his firearm for the accident to have occurred. It was NOT intended to show a proper two-hand grip as azredhawk44 says. I don't mind people using my images, but get the story straight.

June 15, 2009, 12:51 PM	#57
breed Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2009 Posts: 230	we all do stupid things every now and then. no one's fault but his own. it would seem know one take's personal responsibility any more. we had a case on the news a few weeks back were a cop pulled over some kids one night. and one of them threw some pot out the window of the car. when asked what it was he told the truth. so this officer called for back up. well the officer responding runs threw the middle of town at speeds of 100+ and manege's to run off a straight and empty road and kill's his self. now they are blaming the kids for this idiot's death.

June 15, 2009, 02:15 PM	#59
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I've been curious about the outcome of this case ever since I first heard about it. Does anyone know if it's been settled yet? A few times when I've been shooting my 44 from a bench, I have tried a few "unorthodox" grips and it is rather easy to let a finger or thumb kind of creep close to the gap if you're not aware of what you're doing. That's the point to getting proper instruction though is so you maintain that awareness. Years ago though I mentioned to a buddy of mine that I had found that in the field if you lay on your back and use your ankle as a rest, you can get a very steady rest and sight picture with a long barreled 44 mag. He agreed but warned me that he was doing the same thing one time in an extended session and actually set the bottom of his Wranglers on fire! The flash from the barrel/cylinder was hot enough to ignite clothing. I never forgot that story and it impressed me enough not to ever get my fingers close to that area. But still... I know a 44 mag is not a 460, but wouldn't you think that flash would be enough to completely cut through my pants and leather boot top as well? I'm qute certain now that I think about it that I have had that barrel/cylinder gap resting mighty close if not touching fabric during bench sessions. I've seen some nasty black marks on an old jacket, but no gaping holes from that. Is a 460 flash that much more intense than a 44 mag?

June 15, 2009, 05:35 PM	#61
45Colt_Man Member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Posts: 59	Trial is scheduled for September 28, 2009. Info is from Smith & Wesson Holdings Quarterly Report.

June 17, 2009, 12:27 PM	#64
Jayhawkhuntclub Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Posts: 581	How big of a weenie do you have to be to need a 460 to kill a deer? Knowing S & W they will put a shroud and lock on it covered in warning.

June 17, 2009, 03:07 PM	#67
Pbearperry Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 283	This guys Mom must live near me.About 15 years ago,a lady sued Sears because when she put her miniature Poodle in the Sears microvave after bathing it,the dog blew up.She told the Judge that she thought the microwave oven would dry Fifi off. The Judge asked her if she read the instructions and she said yes.He then asked her about having to pierce solid foods like potatos and meat before cooking them and she said yes.He then said,piercing things with a fork first should have raised enough red flags.Case dismissed.

June 18, 2009, 11:24 AM	#69
Uncle Billy Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: Small city in New York Posts: 482	The lawyer who drafted the case against S&W for numbnuts use of a revolver reminds me of the joke that defines SOME (not all) lawyers: Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish? A: One's a slime-sucking bottom dweller and the other has fins. __________________ Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?

June 18, 2009, 03:35 PM	#71
Uncle Billy Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: Small city in New York Posts: 482	The law ought not to be the final arbiter of what's honorable, what's responsible, what defines fairness, character, integrity, decency, honesty, reasonability or any other virtue that defines a decent person, a good citizen or a responsible adult. These aspects of a person's character are mandatory in individuals if society is to function at all, the law notwithstanding. __________________ Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?