Revolver Accurizing

[1972RedNeck]

My first revolver (first handgun) was my Smith 627 Performance Center with a 5" barrel. Shot thousands of rounds through it and was never impressed with my handgunning ability, or lack thereof. 2" at 10 yards was all I could muster with my best handloads.

Fast forward 10 years and I have several more revolvers and pistols. I have a couple pistols that I can now get 1" groups at 20 yards no problem. With my old 627, 2" at 10 yards is still the best I can do. Honestly it's not any better than my Taurus Judge Magnum.

I have swapped sights to no avail. I am confident enough with my abilities that it's the gun, and not me.

I like my 627 as it was my first handgun. And the capacity. And it has the prefect weight and balance for me. It just won't shoot, but I have no intentions of ever getting rid of it.

With all that being said, I would like it to shoot better.

What do I need to do to make it a tack driver? Who do I send it to?

[tangolima]

2" at 10yd is not bad.

A few things to check for revolver.

Endshake. The back and forth play of cylinder in the window. Not really for accuracy, but rather service life.

Ranging. The alignment of the bore with the chambers in the cylinder.

The throat diameter of chamber. Ideally it matches the bullet diameter.

The condition of the forcing cone.

The crown.

If you are shooting cast bullets, slug the bore for proper bullet diameter.

There are more checks. The above are the first I would do.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Nathan]

Thank you Tangolima. Good stuff.

My only addition would be to look at the lockup on each cylinder. With the trigger held to the rear, is it tight in rotation….when pushing side to side does it wobble?

IME, guns that get used a lot develop loose yoke to frame fit, endshake and finally lock up goes bad. This poor lockup can cause accuracy issues due to alignment to the forcing cone. Most guns that I find are a bit loose to Mr Kuhnhausen’s standards, but still serviceable. Takes a good revolver smith to dial all this in!

[1972RedNeck]

Endshake is non existent and it locks up tighter than my Ruger that is far more accurate.

[Jim Watson]

What ammo?
Oops, I thought it was one of the 9mm mongrels.
Sorry, carry on.

[44 AMP]

2" at 10yds.

Rested? offhand? DA? SA? all 8 shots, or 5shot groups?? Measured center to center or edge to edge??

What ammo??

Lots of people believe its not them, its the gun, sometimes they are right. One easy way to be sure is to have other people (with known skill) shoot your gun, and ammo, at the range you are testing. IF they all do better than you do, its probably you. IF the best results match or don't reach what you are getting, its the gun/ammo combination.

Before having any work done on the gun, I would try every load combination I could get, or make, to see if the gun had a clear preference for one bullet, and load, or not.

Might also chat with the folks at S&W's Performance center to get an idea of what specs they built the gun to, and if there is an accuracy standard, or not.

[rclark]

2" at 10yd is not bad.

Uhhh well, I'd say at 25Y it is not bad . 10Y (if rested) you should have one hole (unless a .22 of course) with most revolvers.

The following was shot off hand at 15Y as an example (one of my rare moments) .

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by rclark

Uhhh well, I'd say at 25Y it is not bad . 10Y (if rested) you should have one hole (unless a .22 of course) with most revolvers.



The following was shot off hand at 15Y as an example (one of my rare moments) .

Well I'm just a mortal Great shootin'!

-TL



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[1972RedNeck]

158 gr .358" cast bullets over 16.0 grains of H110 seems to be the best I can come up with. I have tried everything from 110 gr 38 specials up to 180 grain 357 mag ammo.

2 inch 3 shot groups (rested, single action) measured to the inside of the holes so almost 3" to the outside.

Have identical sights and grips on a 4" K frame and 8" X frame. Can get 1" groups (to the inside of the holes) at 20 yards with both.

[DT Guy]

Different guns often prefer different loads; have you tested the S&W with other ammo?

After that, check the crown and forcing cone; they have an outsized impact on accuracy.


Larry

[PzGren]

I think there is little to add after Tangolima's answer.

[wild cat mccane]

That and send it back to S&W if all Tangolima are perused.

Accuracy is something S&W PC can check.

[tangolima]

I have a cheap Spanish s&w knock off with 6" barrel. Shoots 6" at 15yd rested. The ranging (bore / chamber alignments) is off. None of 6 holes passes the test, and they are off in all different directions. I don't think I can fix it, or it worths the efforts. I just leave it the way it is. A good conversation piece.

-TL



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[gwpercle]

I have always been more than pleased with the accurizing and trigger jobs from Clark Custom Guns ... they seem to be able to work Magic on handguns .
Give them a call and discuss what problems you are having and see what they say ...
www.clarkcustomguns.com
This is from a very satisfied cutomer ... and I love their Target Trigger Jobs ...
They are SWEET !
Gary

[Jim Watson]

If I did not want to go 'round and 'round with the company warranty clerk, I would consult Frank Glenn, he has a good reputation on revolvers.

[Drm50]

I find shooting handguns is like shooting pool, you have to stay with it to be good. Up into my 50s I shot something everyday. Then started to shoot half as much. Then the eyes catch up with you and dreaded bifocals.
I shot a lot of 25-2 with 45AR brass and cast bullets. The sizing of the cast for your particular gun makes a big difference. I don’t know about stainless revolvers, I don’t think I’ve ever shot one. I’ve had several just not my thing.

[rclark]

2 inch 3 shot groups (rested, single action) measured to the inside of the holes so almost 3" to the outside.

Sounds like time to either get rid of the gun, or find out what is wrong with it and then if even 'worth it' to fix. Good luck with finding a gunsmith that will work with you. I'd be checking throat sizes, alignment, barrel condition/constrictions, etc. to see if I could find the problem in the meantime.

[stinkeypete]

I used to shoot bullseye and had a bad experience with a S&W.
My pistolsmith was NRA rated High Master and had a ransom rest. He confirmed, it was the gun.
S&W looked at my new gun, on my dime, and declared it was just fine. I never bought another gun from them.

The days of men lusting after accurate targer revolvers is over. The gunsmiths who can accurize are few, rare and EXPENSIVE. If money is no object, it can be done.

It might be more economical to shop for an old K-38 Combat Masterpiece in excellent shape, see if it shoots, and sell what you have. S&W isn't what it was.

If you wish to test to see if it's your gun, try this:

Get lots of NRA Slow Fire 25 yard Bullseye targets. Each string at a new target, label each target when done with a sharpie marker.

Shoot a cylinder full at 25 yards, from a bench, off a sandbag.
Shoot the same number (8) with your best .22
Shoot another cylinder from the 627
Shoot (8) with your .22

Without a ransom rest, human error and flinch are big factors. The sandbag will tame some of that, but not all. Shooting the .22 will show to some degree how you shoot as a marksman.

Score your targets. If on the line, it gets the higher score.

Keep track of those well-labeled targets. Date, distance, type of ammunition.

Let's assume the 627 is not shooting like you want.

Take a break so fatigue is not a factor.

Mark one of your cylinders as #1 with a sharpie.

Set 8 targets at 25 yards. Label them 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8

Load so that you will begins shooting cylinder 1.
Shoot 1 shot at target 1, the next shot at 2, the next at 3...

Repeat this procedure 5 times, always starting with cylinder 1.

You may find that some cylinders seem accurate and others not. If that's the case, you need to do this some more, because statistics.

All in all, my advice: K38 Masterpiece from someone you can trust about the bore condition. Done.

[tangolima]

If the revolver passes the factory checks, it is deemed in-spec, even though not perfect. For instance, s&w allows up to 2 chambers out 6 pass ranging test with "tick". Shots fired through those chambers may probably deviate from the main group. If we insist measuring the group extreme-to-extreme, the result may be disappointing.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Japle]

I have a 327 5" that's very picky. It doesn't like 110 or 125 bullets at all, but groups 158s really well. This isn't a problem with paper targets, but for Steel Challenge, it's a disadvantage. Velocity is so low that I swear I can hit a 2nd plate before the 1st bullet hits. I know that's not true, but it seems that way. Increasing velocity slows me down, so I have to just trust myself and shoot fast.

[rclark]

I have a 327 5" that's very picky. It doesn't like 110 or 125 bullets at all, but groups 158s really well.

I'd say your talking about a .357 . Bullets for .32s is usually ~78, 100, 115s ....

[74A95]

Originally Posted by rclark

I'd say your talking about a .357 . Bullets for .32s is usually ~78, 100, 115s ....

Model 327. For example:

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...model-327-trr8

[wild cat mccane]

S&W warranty honestly couldn't be less painful. They pay shipping too. Everything you've written could be copy and pasted into the text field and I guarantee you're getting a prepaid return label in a week.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/custome...ice/contact-us

[stuckinthe60s]

this is why i sold all my revolvers that i competed with.
all 6 cyl's were different.
away they all went.
pythons and s&w's.
went to 1911 frames and never looked back.
i know it doesnt help the topic any, but maybe itll save someone time and money.

[stuckinthe60s]

i gotta hand it to the ruskies though. they made a revolver where when you cocked the trigger, the cyl moved forward to engage the bbl. what a concept.