This is why I am not a member of organizations..

[johnbt]

"But among gun owners more then one study has shown me to be in the majority"

We're doomed. Doomed I say. Doomed.

Meanwhile, some of us can afford the money to take people to the range and to buy ammo for the bunker and to still have enough left to pay some dues.

Join and vote and let them hear from the members.

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Endowment Member

[BobCat45]

...just call and ask to be removed from their mailing list. They will honor your request (at least they did in my case).

Yes, I'm still a member; but it angered me to see all the money wasted on sending me junk mail, asking for money. I called and told the gentleman who answered just that, and he said he completely understood and I would not receive any more junk mail.

When I have a few extra dollars, I split it between NRA / TSRA / GOA / SAF / and JPFO - not an even split BTW, the organizations I feel are most effective get the biggest cut.

Anyway, you can get off the mailing list, and continue your membership, if you choose to.

Regards,
Andrew

[orionengnr]

--Maser makes a very valid point.

With all due respect, Maser is 20 years old and cannot legally buy a handgun. If you are going to take your cue from someone who cannot buy a beer or ammo, good luck to you...and may God have mercy on the rest of us.

If the NRA is the be all it claims to be why can't it just put it's foot down and say no more and all gun laws are wiped off the books? Answer: In addition to my above remarks the effectivness of the NRA as an anti-gun organization is hyped up.

Put it's foot down? The NRA does not make law; it influences lawmakers. If it had 80 million members instead of 3-5 million, it would be gain far more credibility (and influence) with those lawmakers.

If the NRA is so great why is it that there are almost 100 Million gun owners and only 5 Million are members of the NRA?

Geeze, that's an easy one. Because there are a lot of free-loaders who will let someone else do the heavy lifting. Got it yet?

It pains me that there are people like you out there. Worse yet, you are not alone.

I wonder--are you are a sports fan? If your team loses one game, do you give up on them? If your car gets a flat, do you feel betrayed and sell it? If your wife argues with you, or makes a mistake, do you divorce her?

Please reconsider your absolutist, all-or-nothing stance. Very few things in life are so simple.

[wolfsong]

Actually Maser is 17 and Shotgun Minister is 19. So perhaps we should forgive them their impetuous I-want-it-now, I-know-it-all, don't-tell-me, outlook. I applaud Shotgun's participation in the political arena, however perhaps his views will change once he realizes that the world has VERY few black and white, yes or no, either/or, real life situations. Maybe if he went to some local NRA chapter meetings, or looked into the Friends of the NRA, and rubbed elbows with those that have really been there, done that regarding lobbying, organizing and campaigning for our gun rights, he would see with his own eyes and hear with his own ears the passion that ordinary gun owners have for our 2A rights. And if he was lucky enough to win a gun at a Friends of the NRA dinner, he just might enjoy getting involved. In any event, it is our responsibility to educate the misinformed/uninformed gun owners of America. So, Mr. Shotgun Minister, mosey on down to the next neighborhood FNRA dinner and try your luck. You don't have to be a member to go, or to win. Check it out, you just might be surprised. I respect your opinion, but do not discount or dismiss the opinions and experiances of those that have much more experiance and time on this earth than yourself. Many here have sacrificed more than you'll ever know to protect your right to keep and bear arms. Respect them by listening to them. You don't have to agree, but you would do well to listen. Balance your passion with knowledge, not ideals. Good luck to you. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

[orionengnr]

Thank you, WolfSong.

When I was 17 I thought I knew it all. Perhaps I did...but now I don't remember.

I'm trying to recall who is was who said something to the effect of:

If you are 20 and not a liberal you have no heart.
If you are 30 and not a conservative you have no brain...

Here's to a long life.
Best, Rich

[pipoman]

Good on ya' Wolf.

I honestly didn't become a member until several months after I married my wife. Her dad (just turned 75) is a life member who sends the NRA $50 per year anyway. He said The NRA has defended his right to own guns, buy ammo, and hunt more times over the years than any other organization. He believes without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been repealed decades ago.

It takes a lot of money to challenge court decisions and constitutionality of laws/bills. The NRA can and will supply the necessary funds, attorneys and their membership will form a class action so quickly that lawmakers and judges know better than to hand down bad decisions or bring forward unconstitutional bills. Through political action the NRA has stopped many bills in committee and had many rulings overturned before it was necessary to challenge them in the High Courts.

If you don't want to join don't. But justifying your decision not to join by making nutty statements about mass mailing (which work), incomes of well educated, successful management people, and some belief that getting a non-shooter to shoot your gun, is vacant justification IMO.

[orionengnr]

I was an NRA member back in the 70s and 80s.

Wayne LaPierre's "Jack-Booted Thug" statement blew me out of the water, and I let my membership lapse as a result. Took me a long time to get over that.

I only renewed a bit over a year ago, and re-upped last month.

Regardless of my personal beliefs on the efficacy of the statements of the NRA's principals, I have to support the organisation until something better comes along.

[johnbt]

"So perhaps we should forgive them their impetuous I-want-it-now, I-know-it-all, don't-tell-me, outlook."

Later, right now I'm too busy ignoring their holier-than-thou approach.

Have you ever spent much time around puppies with muddy feet? If you don't keep your guard up they'll jump all over you and ruin your pants. Might even chew your shoes up, too. Doesn't mean they aren't cute, but it does get tiresome.

John

[Northern Sod Breaker]

I did at one time engage in shooting sports. (Trap to be specific) At the end of the day I got the feeling of $29 in the hole and nothing to show for it. I'm not saying shooting sports are bad or anything thing remotely similar. I'm just saying they are not everyone's cup of tea. I thought of joing to local sportsman's club. But when I considered it further what would I realy get out of it? I don't hunt, nor do I engage in shooting sports. That right there is 70% of what a sportsman's club does.

[brickeyee]

"Wayne LaPierre's "Jack-Booted Thug" statement blew me out of the water,"

I thought a congress critter actually used the pharase first...

[brickeyee]

Found it.

"If I were to select a jack-booted group of fascists who are perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF." Rep. John Dingell (D-MI)

[UH1-D Rotorhead]

....but definitely not happy with them....waiting for something that is more representative of the melting pot that America is, and ALWAYS has been...

[wolfsong]

Am I the only one that senses that Shotgun minister's primary concern is money? Having been a hungry young man once upon a time, I can appreciate his concerns. All I can say to you, Shotgun, is keep working hard, add to your gun collection when you can afford to (and while you still can, legally) and remember that target shooting is a sport, too. One day soon, you will no longer be a young man, money and creature comforts won't be as nearly as big an issue as it seems now at your young age, your politics will most likely have experianced some changes, possibly drastic, and you will begin to understand just what we "older" folks now know as facts of life. I live in California, where the gun restriction laws are at the top of the list for oppression of my 2A rights. And yet my collection is large by most standards, and I can afford to buy a gun pretty much any damn time I want. They might not be at the high end of the price spectrum, but I don't buy junk, either. So now that money is not a major issue, I want to keep my hard earned purchases from being restricted or outright outlawed. One cannot simply hide in a bunker or take to the hills when gun laws take a drastic turn for the worst. Legislation, or lobbying against more legislation, as the case may be, is much more effective, farther reaching and longer lasting than anarchy. So again, my advice is to turn it down a notch, listen to the words and wisdom of those that have gone before you, and give gun rights organizations some consideration. If there is a better alternative, I am not aware of it. Simply owning guns and being defiant will not further our cause to keep our rights intact. There must be grass roots efforts that never rest. And that takes money. Everything takes money. If you don't have it to give, join a "sportsman's club" and become involved with their youth programs. This is a much more effective way to introduce young shooting enthusiests to shooting than taking a friend to the range. Broaden your horizons, young man. It's a big, complicated world we live in, with complex issues that aren't going away just because we don't like them or agree with them. We can't simply say that it's not our problem. It IS our problem, like it or not! The least that you, and any gun owner, can do is lend your voice and your vote to the good fight. Money can come later, when you are in a better position to contribute, and your mindset is focused on priorities as a gun owner. To all that think the NRA and other organizations are money grabbing fronts, please, take some time to consider what we are saying. We MUST stand united together, or we will assuredly fall divided. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

[Northern Sod Breaker]

Well Wolfsong. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I do vote for Pro-gun caniodates and it is very high on my list if not the highest on that list. I don't have money to throw around freely. There are several guns I want That most could just buy on a whim. But given my limited budget other things come first. I will second what you said. It don't cost nothing to vote. If I was in such a postion finacialy the NRA could keep there benefits and I'd just donate without a membership. The benefits of membership are very little. But as it's sits I can't afford anything.

[pipoman]

Hang in there Shotgun, keep your ear to the ground and your nose to the grindstone. Money becomes easier the older you get. I can tell by your signature you are not going to sit around and wait for someone else to propel you. Charity begins at home. When home is covered we start looking outside our own house.

[bobhwry]

SM,
You can join the NRA for the price of a couple boxes of ammo!! You make it sound like an NRA membership would relegate you to beans and weenies the rest of your life!! Give me a break!! It'a a small price to pay to protect our rights. If you have a better idea, I would love to hear it!

[Northern Sod Breaker]

SM,
You can join the NRA for the price of a couple boxes of ammo!!

and I ain't rushing out to buy that either.

If you have a better idea, I would love to hear it!

Obviuosly you haven't been listening.

[bobhwry]

Oh, Iv'e been listening just fine. Thank you!!If you don't like the shooting sport or can't support it, then what are you doing here??

[Northern Sod Breaker]

Becuase I own guns which is first and foremost the purpose of the site. I enjoy shooting targets. Just not at an organized event. Why should I spend $30 a year for the local sportsman's club and only be able to use it when the elusive management says so. I personaly don't like the hierarchy of the local club. If your not a high up you get little use of it. Personaly I do not find organized gun sports to be appealing. After all I bought the ammo and the gun. So as long as I don't damage property why can't I make my own rules. Lining up a paper in the sights is my escape from my otherwise mundane existance. Quit corrupting it with end less rules and and "points."

[orionengnr]

Dude, I know you are young. I was there once...not long ago (or so it seems). Actually, believe it or not, most of us were.

You can rail against "what is" all you want...but until someone comes up with something better, "what is" is what we have.
Got a better idea? We are listening.
Want to beat up on the status quo? Don't we all...get in line.

Part of the problem, or part of the solution? Your choice.

Remember, the solution is not (necessarily) absolute or immediate; it may be incremental and imperfect. That is known as progress. It is neither easy nor guaranteed, and is diametrically opposed to today's insistence on instant gratification.

The incessant drip of water, which no-one notices, will wear down the largest rock over time, but the violent thunderstorm impresses all but the rock.

[Jager1]

But when the gun grabbers come and no have no ammo to ward them off because yo put all you faith in a organization to protect you will I be sitting in my bunker laughing at you.

Working on a manifesto, perhaps?

Personaly I can not afford NRA membership. Which explains why a $20 box of ammo is on my "wish list." Unlike some of you (not all) I do not have an unlimited income.

How is that ammo cache in your "bunker" coming along?

A rattle snake is not the most deadly snake in the world yet it is still the most feared.(in this country anyway)

The most feared (due to their venom) snakes in the world are:

1) Fierce Snake or Inland Taipan (Oxyuranus microlepidotus ), Australia. The most toxic venom of any snake. Maximum yield recorded (for one bite) is 110mg. That would porbably be enough to kill over 100 people or 250,000 mice. These rare snakes are vitually unknown in collections outside of Australia.
2) Australian Brown Snake (Pseudonaja textilis ), Australia. One 1/14,000 of an ounce of this venom is enough to kill a person.
3) Malayan Krait (Bungarus candidus ), Southeast Asia and Indonesia. 50% of the bites from this snake are fatal even with the use of antivenin treatment.
4) Taipan (Oxyuranus scutellatus ), Australia. The venom delivered in a single Taipan bite is enough to kill up to 12,000 guinea pigs.
5) Tiger Snake (Notechis scutatus ), Australia.
6) Beaked Sea Snake (Enhydrina schistosa ), South Asian waters Arabian Sea to Coral Sea.
7) Saw Scaled Viper (Echis carinatus ), Middle East Asia.
8) Coral Snake (Micrurus fulvius ), North America.
9) Boomslang (Dispholidus typus ), Africa.
10) Death Adder (Acanthopis antarcticus ), Australia and New Guinea.

Of course, outside of the coral snake, none of these exist in the wild on the North American continent. Yet there are many varieties of rattlesnakes. Sort of makes your 'analogy' appear quite anemic. In fact, pointing out the multitude of flaws in your logic would prove to be a full time job, in addition to assisting with rudimentary written/typed language skills.

If you don't believe the NRA is one of the best choices out there to make regarding firearm ownership and the legislation surrounding it, that is your choice. Your admission that you are unable to even afford a membership only make your insistences even more fragmented. You further state that you don't hunt or engage in shooting sports? Whatever. I will credit you with a certain amount of sophistry by connecting the dots between licensure of a farm and that of a firearm ().

As others here have noted, you are a young man. I positively am not. Pardon me for having a bit of difficulty with your thought processes, for I too once suffered from idealistic defective thinking.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Glad I don't share it with you. Or the "bunker". In fact, a quick review of your NRA bashing and law enforcement posts as of late offers quite a bit of insight, actually.

My suggestion would be to move. Make some new friends. And listen more to those with more experience than you.

Wish I would have.

Watching the Fargo papers...

[Bud Helms]

Well, this one is done.

Those of you that feel the need to repeat your position, go here for any further discussion: NRA: Friend or Loyal Opposition.

Closed.