Choosing a pistol cartridge is like choosing a hammer

2DaMtns · September 16, 2009, 08:38 AM

I have been a member here for some time, and I have seen a large number of posts about which cartridge should be chosen for this or that, usually it seems to be about CCW or woods protection. While reading one of these posts recently, I realized choosing a cartidge is like choosing a hammer, in a lot of ways. Let me explain....

With each given task, there is a range of hammers that seems to fit the bill the best, but you can probably use about any of them if you can hit your mark. For example, if I am building a cabinet, probably a tack hammer or finishing hammer would be the best, but I could use a regular claw hammer or a ripping hammer and still get the job done, I just have to be careful to hit my target. But, with the larger hammers, over-penetration is a concern, as I may ruin my cabinet.

Moving on up to building a shed or something like that, a general claw hammer in the 16-20 oz range is probably best. However, you could probably use a tack hammer, but you're going to be swinging a lot. Similarly, you could use a 4# mini-sledge but again, you risk messing your target up too bad with a less than accurate hit. And sure, you could use a 10+ lb sledge, but everyone would agree this is overkill, and you're just going to wear yourself out.

Finally, if you are trying to pound a 100 penny nail into a pressure treated timber, then you NEED a big hammer. Again, you can get it done with smaller ones, but you're going to be there a long time.

Also, as in firearms, the smaller hammers tend to allow for faster swings (i.e., muzzle velocity) and subsequent swings (i.e., follow up shots), but tend to require more hits to do the same job (less energy). However, a larger hammer delivers more energy at a lower velocity, but does so with a lower rate of follow up shots and greater risk of unwanted damage if you miss.

In the end, they are very similar - you are using a tool to drive a metal object into a target. You have a large number of choices as far as what you use to get the metal into the target, but what really counts is being able to hit the target with whichever one you choose and keeping it within reason.

win-lose · September 16, 2009, 09:18 AM

Interesting analogy. I kinda think the nail may be more analogous to the cartridge...

Syntax360 · September 16, 2009, 09:28 AM

Great analogy - I concur!

cougar gt-e · September 16, 2009, 09:34 AM

I like the way you think!

Also, there are variations in hammers with grip material, shaft material, shaft angles, head styles, etc that go way beyond just weight.

After all, this is a capitalist country and we don't have to buy the single style and weight government hammer (at least not yet).

greghalliday · September 16, 2009, 02:00 PM

Let's all buy this fellow a beer.

Probably the best ammo analogy I've ever heard. Not that it means much because choosing a cartridge is a faith-based religion not a well reasoned analysis.

curt.45 · September 16, 2009, 03:31 PM

I think he hit the nail on the head.

SteelJM1 · September 16, 2009, 03:46 PM

Or you can use a full auto nailgun just to make sure that wood is NAILED!

somedudefromhouston · September 16, 2009, 07:08 PM

I was at a party a while back, another shooter/collector/s Bday. Naturally the talk turned to what have you bought lately? His neighbor asked the "how many guns?" question.The answer stunned him.
My response was to ask him how many screwdrivers he had. Wrong Q. he wasnt at all handyman matl. I guess I have over 100 screwdrivers, this also shocked him. To me guns are tools.Each one is best at a particular task. Gotta have a bunch of them to do all the jobs.

460SW · September 16, 2009, 07:42 PM

I agree a gun is just a tool like any other. This really becomes clearer when you have a job that requires you to wear a sidearm.

cougar gt-e · September 16, 2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

I was at a party a while back, another shooter/collector/s Bday. Naturally the talk turned to what have you bought lately? His neighbor asked the "how many guns?" question.The answer stunned him.
My response was to ask him how many screwdrivers he had. Wrong Q. he wasnt at all handyman matl.

I've used the Q - how many songs do you have in your song collection? What? Thousands? What in the world can you do with that many? You can't listen to them all at the same time, can you? etc etc.

I've found that the anti-2A males are nearly always also fumble fingered fops when it comes to using tools of any kind. Screwdrivers, hammers, wrenches especially knives and guns...

Pbearperry · September 16, 2009, 09:45 PM

I love big,heavy,hammers.However,in a pinch,light,fast hitting hammers will do also.

sp-train-77 · September 16, 2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

In the end, they are very similar - you are using a tool to drive a metal object into a target. You have a large number of choices as far as what you use to get the metal into the target, but what really counts is being able to hit the target with whichever one you choose and keeping it within reason.

Plus one more factor where choosing a cartridge is like choosing the proper tool. Which tool are you most familiar with and are most comfortable using. Several of the hammers can do more (or less) than their design would seem to dictate. You will choose the one you rely on because of experience in using the tool(s).

I have 25+ years experience working on aircraft. My rollaway is filled with tools that have "earned my trust" through use (my favorite 3/8 drive ratchet is over 35 years old, my hammer is 25 years old). My gun safe contains similar "tools."

The ability to do good work is the ability to use your tools effectively through knowing them. I've seen lots of fellows in the shop change ratchets every year but are still fumble-fingers when it comes to using them. The same with guns and cartridges. Find what works for you and learn to use it as well as you possibly can.

OK, anybody want to argue. Meet me out back in 10 minutes....7/8" wrenches at 10 paces.

"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

CraigC · September 17, 2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

I realized choosing a cartidge is like choosing a hammer...

Maybe, but only if you take all the emotion out of it. For me anyway. I reckon it depends on how you feel about hammers. I don't get too excited about `em but I'll get all worked up over which cartridge to choose and see absolutely nothing wrong with owning several guns in the same chambering.

2DaMtns · September 17, 2009, 08:04 AM

There's nothing wrong with that. I am sure there are carpenters out there who have hundreds of hammers and surely some of them are probably carbon copies of the same make and model. I am just trying to illustrate that there is no magic in selecting the perfect round, and that the perfect round rarely exists for a particular job.

YARDDOG(1) · September 17, 2009, 05:35 PM

I can drive as many nails with my custom 16oz hammer than most can with a 22oz eastwing

Y/D

Willie Lowman · September 17, 2009, 06:48 PM

This is going to turn into a wood handled vs. plastic gripped handle hammer debate any second

Old Grump · September 17, 2009, 06:57 PM

I like the analogy, I must have at least 8 or 9 hammers, (guns), hanging over my workbench and another dozen stashed in tool boxes and various nooks and crannies around my shop, vehicle and house junk drawer. I have my favorite hammer but I use the one most appropriate for the job.

Nails, (ammunition), not even going to try and figure out how many kinds or quantities of nails tacks, brads, spikes, etc that I have but I have never been to an auction yet where I didn't come home with a few more cans, bottles and boxes of various and sundry nails. They all have their place, no such thing as one nail and one hammer is suitable for everything.

Side note: I notice as age and arthritis affects me more I have developed a real close relationship with my 4 power screwdrivers and my growing collection of screws. Kind of like my grudging respect for shotguns that I never used to have a use for but now shoot regularly.

mustang_steve · September 17, 2009, 07:03 PM

I'll throw in my good word for steel handled hammers, just to direct equal contempt in my direction

Seriously, I've found most antis regardless of gender, are not "tool people"...with some exceptions, they tend to be completely uninterested in handiwork. Thus how they have issues with understanding the value of tools, or how they think a tool can be good or evil.

Lockpicks serve a tremendous job in the locksmithing field....getting people into their homes when they get locked out, etc. But they also serve a nefarious use.....breaking and entering. The determination of which use is implemented upon these tools is done by the user.

Hammers can be used to build a house...but they can also be used to kill our fellow man. The determination of which use is implemented once again is done by the user.

Screwdrivers, ratchets, wrenches, ropes, etc.....all up to the user.

I wish people would see things in such a manner instead of "evil tool, grrrrrr".

September 16, 2009, 08:38 AM	#1
2DaMtns Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Posts: 457	Choosing a pistol cartridge is like choosing a hammer I have been a member here for some time, and I have seen a large number of posts about which cartridge should be chosen for this or that, usually it seems to be about CCW or woods protection. While reading one of these posts recently, I realized choosing a cartidge is like choosing a hammer, in a lot of ways. Let me explain.... With each given task, there is a range of hammers that seems to fit the bill the best, but you can probably use about any of them if you can hit your mark. For example, if I am building a cabinet, probably a tack hammer or finishing hammer would be the best, but I could use a regular claw hammer or a ripping hammer and still get the job done, I just have to be careful to hit my target. But, with the larger hammers, over-penetration is a concern, as I may ruin my cabinet. Moving on up to building a shed or something like that, a general claw hammer in the 16-20 oz range is probably best. However, you could probably use a tack hammer, but you're going to be swinging a lot. Similarly, you could use a 4# mini-sledge but again, you risk messing your target up too bad with a less than accurate hit. And sure, you could use a 10+ lb sledge, but everyone would agree this is overkill, and you're just going to wear yourself out. Finally, if you are trying to pound a 100 penny nail into a pressure treated timber, then you NEED a big hammer. Again, you can get it done with smaller ones, but you're going to be there a long time. Also, as in firearms, the smaller hammers tend to allow for faster swings (i.e., muzzle velocity) and subsequent swings (i.e., follow up shots), but tend to require more hits to do the same job (less energy). However, a larger hammer delivers more energy at a lower velocity, but does so with a lower rate of follow up shots and greater risk of unwanted damage if you miss. In the end, they are very similar - you are using a tool to drive a metal object into a target. You have a large number of choices as far as what you use to get the metal into the target, but what really counts is being able to hit the target with whichever one you choose and keeping it within reason.

September 16, 2009, 07:08 PM	#8
somedudefromhouston Member Join Date: January 8, 2007 Location: duh, Houston Posts: 66	I was at a party a while back, another shooter/collector/s Bday. Naturally the talk turned to what have you bought lately? His neighbor asked the "how many guns?" question.The answer stunned him. My response was to ask him how many screwdrivers he had. Wrong Q. he wasnt at all handyman matl. I guess I have over 100 screwdrivers, this also shocked him. To me guns are tools.Each one is best at a particular task. Gotta have a bunch of them to do all the jobs. __________________ somedude many guns, little time NRA Life Member

September 17, 2009, 05:35 PM	#15
YARDDOG(1) Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: GATOR COUNTRY HA HA HA! Posts: 721	I can drive as many nails with my custom 16oz hammer than most can with a 22oz eastwing Y/D __________________ There's a GATOR in the bushes & She's Callin my name >Molly Hatchett<

September 17, 2009, 06:48 PM	#16
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	This is going to turn into a wood handled vs. plastic gripped handle hammer debate any second __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

September 17, 2009, 06:57 PM	#17
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	I like the analogy, I must have at least 8 or 9 hammers, (guns), hanging over my workbench and another dozen stashed in tool boxes and various nooks and crannies around my shop, vehicle and house junk drawer. I have my favorite hammer but I use the one most appropriate for the job. Nails, (ammunition), not even going to try and figure out how many kinds or quantities of nails tacks, brads, spikes, etc that I have but I have never been to an auction yet where I didn't come home with a few more cans, bottles and boxes of various and sundry nails. They all have their place, no such thing as one nail and one hammer is suitable for everything. Side note: I notice as age and arthritis affects me more I have developed a real close relationship with my 4 power screwdrivers and my growing collection of screws. Kind of like my grudging respect for shotguns that I never used to have a use for but now shoot regularly. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

September 16, 2009, 09:18 AM	#2
win-lose Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 509	Interesting analogy. I kinda think the nail may be more analogous to the cartridge...

September 16, 2009, 09:28 AM	#3
Syntax360 Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 694	Great analogy - I concur!

September 16, 2009, 09:34 AM	#4
cougar gt-e Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2009 Posts: 1,003	I like the way you think! Also, there are variations in hammers with grip material, shaft material, shaft angles, head styles, etc that go way beyond just weight. After all, this is a capitalist country and we don't have to buy the single style and weight government hammer (at least not yet).

September 16, 2009, 02:00 PM	#5
greghalliday Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2009 Location: Spanish Fork, UT Posts: 159	Let's all buy this fellow a beer. Probably the best ammo analogy I've ever heard. Not that it means much because choosing a cartridge is a faith-based religion not a well reasoned analysis.

September 16, 2009, 03:31 PM	#6
curt.45 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Location: Fort Wayne Ind. Posts: 866	I think he hit the nail on the head.

September 16, 2009, 03:46 PM	#7
SteelJM1 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 496	Or you can use a full auto nailgun just to make sure that wood is NAILED!

September 16, 2009, 07:42 PM	#9
460SW Member Join Date: October 29, 2008 Posts: 21	I agree a gun is just a tool like any other. This really becomes clearer when you have a job that requires you to wear a sidearm.

September 16, 2009, 09:45 PM	#11
Pbearperry Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 283	I love big,heavy,hammers.However,in a pinch,light,fast hitting hammers will do also.

September 17, 2009, 08:04 AM	#14
2DaMtns Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Posts: 457	There's nothing wrong with that. I am sure there are carpenters out there who have hundreds of hammers and surely some of them are probably carbon copies of the same make and model. I am just trying to illustrate that there is no magic in selecting the perfect round, and that the perfect round rarely exists for a particular job.

September 17, 2009, 07:03 PM	#18
mustang_steve Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 31	I'll throw in my good word for steel handled hammers, just to direct equal contempt in my direction Seriously, I've found most antis regardless of gender, are not "tool people"...with some exceptions, they tend to be completely uninterested in handiwork. Thus how they have issues with understanding the value of tools, or how they think a tool can be good or evil. Lockpicks serve a tremendous job in the locksmithing field....getting people into their homes when they get locked out, etc. But they also serve a nefarious use.....breaking and entering. The determination of which use is implemented upon these tools is done by the user. Hammers can be used to build a house...but they can also be used to kill our fellow man. The determination of which use is implemented once again is done by the user. Screwdrivers, ratchets, wrenches, ropes, etc.....all up to the user. I wish people would see things in such a manner instead of "evil tool, grrrrrr".