Taurus Judge 2.5 or 3 inch .410? - Page 2

**44 AMP** · March 31, 2024, 01:39 PM

Its called a slug.

And, it is a respectable little beast, fired from a shotgun. The .410 slug weighs 1/4 oz (approx 110gr) and has a listed MV (shotgun long barrel) of 1800fps. (Winchester 3" shell)

The problem, in the combo guns is, its a .410 slug. In order to fit inside the .410 shell, the actual diameter is something like .39 caliber or so.

Rather undersize for a .45 caliber bore, wouldn't you say??

as to putting an actual .45 caliber bullet in "the end" of a .410 shell??

I'm thinking that's not going to work. First off, the .45 bullet might split the .410 case, and even if it doesn't its it going to bulge it quite a bit.

And that is the real problem, .45 bullet plus the thickness of the .410 case isn't going to FIT in the cylinder. Or, at least not any cylinder bored the usual way.

Cylinder throats are bored to be a very close fit to the bullet. With normal construction, I doubt there is enough room in the throat to take the bullet AND the thickness of the .410 case. And there isn't any room in the throat for the .410 case to expand and release a .45 caliber bullet, either.

The .410 works in the combo guns because it is seriously subcaliber, so there is room in the .45 caliber cylinder throat for the casing to fit and open up when fired.

ALL that goes away if you put a .45 caliber bullet in a .410 case.

You are welcome to try it, but I don't think it will work.

Forte S+W · March 31, 2024, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

Thank you for the info on the different cylinder lengths and how they group. I had suspected that the extra half inch didn't make much of a difference on paper, now I'm wondering if there was a difference in velocity. You didn't happen to chronograph any of this, did you?

I haven't, but here's an interesting article on the subject by someone who has...

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/why-...han-you-think/

**44 AMP** · March 31, 2024, 08:40 PM

I consider the cylinder length to be irrelevant. Because, for me, it is, as I don't have any .45/.410 revolvers.

What I do have is .45/.410 Contender barrels. 10" with the "straightener" tube. (which is ONLY for use with shot, not bullets).

The barrel takes the 3" .410, so no difference in cylinder length, no cylinder gap, and, as far as I know, no difference from the standard .45Colt barrel, other than being cut to allow the .410 shell length and the "straightener" tube.

While it was fun, and occasionally useful as a .410, it just didn't shoot .45 Colt ammo very well. Not as well as my Ruger Blackhawk did.

eventually, I got a .45 Colt only barrel for my Contender and it shoots fine, as good or better than my revolvers.

I put the difference down to the amount of "freebore" the .410 version has compared to standard "single caliber" gun's barrels.

IF there is a velocity difference due to that, I don't know, have never chronographed the guns against each other, and even if I did, it would be inconclusive.

Pumpkin · April 15, 2024, 09:35 PM

I have an update on my son’s Governor.
45 Colt 225 Lever Revolution will not stabilize from this revolver which really surprised me?? I had high hopes for this load in the Governor.
We usually pick an old drum to ventilate for target practice, shoot a hole and aim for the hole (15yds). Those 225 Flex Tips rip one hell of a hole when they land sideways! Almost every other round would keyhole!
Now the Sellier & Bellot 45ACP 230gr hp I had grouped very nice, maybe better than anything else we’ve tried so far.
Head scratcher.

armoredman · April 17, 2024, 12:03 PM

I pick up the Judge today - only purpose is snake control at 5 yards or so. I'm thinking it will do just fine for that, but I'm still going to load 45 Colt with cast slugs for it anyway, just for the grins and giggles.

stinkeypete · April 17, 2024, 05:30 PM

TruthTellers, don't do it, man. If you must do it, buy one used. I am sure you can find someone disappointed in their Judge willing to sell it cheap.

Let's think logically- if you want extra performance, load up tungsten shot. It's 1.6 times more dense than lead. Increase 2 shot sizes and get the same performance as lead and a lot more pellets. You won't even need 3" shells, it's so dense. Roll crimping .410 is very much like reloading metallic cartridge. You measure your powder, put a wad over it, stuff in some fiber buttons (because tungsten is so dense, you need to take up space), fill it with shot, put an over shot card on top, run the roll crimp tool over the shell in your electric drill. Done.

"Oh! But tungsten is so expensive!" people say. "Whatever happened to your line about when your life is on the line?"

The great thing about the T/C Contender .45/.410 barrel was Ebay. We all got one, used. We all shot a couple boxes of shells through it, we all passed it along to the next guy. It was fun for a box of shells or two, then never got used again. That's my experience, at least.

Now, a good .22 field pistol? Stuff like that I still toss in my pocket, decades after I bought it.

**44 AMP** · April 17, 2024, 06:42 PM

Quote:

"Oh! But tungsten is so expensive!" people say. "Whatever happened to your line about when your life is on the line?"

Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not well heeled enough to spend the money for tungsten to shoot snakes, or rats. Never met any of those, or heard of any who could survive lead shot but would fall to tungsten.

Tungsten .410 ammo is going from $6 to $8 PER ROUND.

IF regular lead .410 shot won't do it, you don't need expensive tungsten, you need a bigger shotgun.

Nothing that ought to be shot with a .410 puts my life on the line, not even venomous snakes native to North America.

Pumpkin · April 17, 2024, 10:36 PM

What would tungsten shot do to the forcing cone and rifling?

stinkeypete · April 18, 2024, 12:26 PM

Like all shot, the pellets are inside a plastic wad. What does plastic do to a forcing cone and rifling? Nothing.

I'm handloading tungsten for about $2 a round (20 gauge pheasant loads).

Most people are not buying rifled barrel revolvers that shoot shotgun shells for any sensible reason, as I see no sensible reason behind the thing.

That's the point of my $5 a shell argument. People choosing .410 for "home defense" are throwing away $500. What's another $50 for undeniably superior ammunition?

For those who don't know, tungsten shot is insanely superior to lead shot. It's not even close. It's most commonly used by elite turkey hunters, who are switching to .410 and shooting out to 60 yards now.

If you want a shotgun, use a shotgun. If you want a revolver, get a good one. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

**44 AMP** · April 18, 2024, 02:58 PM

Quote:

People choosing .410 for "home defense" are throwing away $500. What's another $50 for undeniably superior ammunition?

Not sure I can agree with that. First point, the guns are NOT .410s, they are .45 Colt made to allow the firing of .410 shells as well.

Won't argue about the superiority of tungsten shot over lead shot, but I will argue about the superiority of any shot in a .410 being superior to a .45 Colt bullet for personal defense.

Even at today's prices, .45 Colt doesn't cost $40 for FIVE rounds.

And I doubt the guys shooting turkeys with .410 tungsten shot are doing it with a Judge....

Mannlicher · April 18, 2024, 03:58 PM

I never understood the allure of the Taurus (or S&W copy) Judge. It's a poor compromise from every standpoint.

Pumpkin · April 18, 2024, 06:31 PM

If you are frequently around snakes and hogs they begin to make sense.

armoredman · April 19, 2024, 09:20 PM

Well, we had a great time with ours today.

It's a bare bones bottom of the line revolver with a simple finish...and it worked perfectly. We practiced at snake range, one hand DA only shooting like we were controlling the dog from going after a snake. Ammo used was Winchester #6, new and some old, as well as Federal "Personal Defense 410 Handgun" ammo...5 000 Buck pellets. No, this is not supposed to be anyone's self defense sidearm for anything but snakes, but hey, you never know.

# 6 shot spread out, but rapid fire follow ups are easy, so the chance of blanketing Scaley George with shot is pretty good.

000 Buck was interesting. Note holes in the center of the target.

All in all, it does what we want, it's fun and easy to shoot, recoil is extremely manageable even with the "self defense" loads. We had a good time, and I think it will be just fine as snake medicine.

March 31, 2024, 01:39 PM	#26
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,872	Its called a slug. And, it is a respectable little beast, fired from a shotgun. The .410 slug weighs 1/4 oz (approx 110gr) and has a listed MV (shotgun long barrel) of 1800fps. (Winchester 3" shell) The problem, in the combo guns is, its a .410 slug. In order to fit inside the .410 shell, the actual diameter is something like .39 caliber or so. Rather undersize for a .45 caliber bore, wouldn't you say?? as to putting an actual .45 caliber bullet in "the end" of a .410 shell?? I'm thinking that's not going to work. First off, the .45 bullet might split the .410 case, and even if it doesn't its it going to bulge it quite a bit. And that is the real problem, .45 bullet plus the thickness of the .410 case isn't going to FIT in the cylinder. Or, at least not any cylinder bored the usual way. Cylinder throats are bored to be a very close fit to the bullet. With normal construction, I doubt there is enough room in the throat to take the bullet AND the thickness of the .410 case. And there isn't any room in the throat for the .410 case to expand and release a .45 caliber bullet, either. The .410 works in the combo guns because it is seriously subcaliber, so there is room in the .45 caliber cylinder throat for the casing to fit and open up when fired. ALL that goes away if you put a .45 caliber bullet in a .410 case. You are welcome to try it, but I don't think it will work. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 31, 2024, 08:40 PM	#28
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,872	I consider the cylinder length to be irrelevant. Because, for me, it is, as I don't have any .45/.410 revolvers. What I do have is .45/.410 Contender barrels. 10" with the "straightener" tube. (which is ONLY for use with shot, not bullets). The barrel takes the 3" .410, so no difference in cylinder length, no cylinder gap, and, as far as I know, no difference from the standard .45Colt barrel, other than being cut to allow the .410 shell length and the "straightener" tube. While it was fun, and occasionally useful as a .410, it just didn't shoot .45 Colt ammo very well. Not as well as my Ruger Blackhawk did. eventually, I got a .45 Colt only barrel for my Contender and it shoots fine, as good or better than my revolvers. I put the difference down to the amount of "freebore" the .410 version has compared to standard "single caliber" gun's barrels. IF there is a velocity difference due to that, I don't know, have never chronographed the guns against each other, and even if I did, it would be inconclusive. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 17, 2024, 05:30 PM	#31
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	TruthTellers, don't do it, man. If you must do it, buy one used. I am sure you can find someone disappointed in their Judge willing to sell it cheap. Let's think logically- if you want extra performance, load up tungsten shot. It's 1.6 times more dense than lead. Increase 2 shot sizes and get the same performance as lead and a lot more pellets. You won't even need 3" shells, it's so dense. Roll crimping .410 is very much like reloading metallic cartridge. You measure your powder, put a wad over it, stuff in some fiber buttons (because tungsten is so dense, you need to take up space), fill it with shot, put an over shot card on top, run the roll crimp tool over the shell in your electric drill. Done. "Oh! But tungsten is so expensive!" people say. "Whatever happened to your line about when your life is on the line?" The great thing about the T/C Contender .45/.410 barrel was Ebay. We all got one, used. We all shot a couple boxes of shells through it, we all passed it along to the next guy. It was fun for a box of shells or two, then never got used again. That's my experience, at least. Now, a good .22 field pistol? Stuff like that I still toss in my pocket, decades after I bought it. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

April 18, 2024, 12:26 PM	#34
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	Like all shot, the pellets are inside a plastic wad. What does plastic do to a forcing cone and rifling? Nothing. I'm handloading tungsten for about $2 a round (20 gauge pheasant loads). Most people are not buying rifled barrel revolvers that shoot shotgun shells for any sensible reason, as I see no sensible reason behind the thing. That's the point of my $5 a shell argument. People choosing .410 for "home defense" are throwing away $500. What's another $50 for undeniably superior ammunition? For those who don't know, tungsten shot is insanely superior to lead shot. It's not even close. It's most commonly used by elite turkey hunters, who are switching to .410 and shooting out to 60 yards now. If you want a shotgun, use a shotgun. If you want a revolver, get a good one. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

April 18, 2024, 03:58 PM	#36
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	I never understood the allure of the Taurus (or S&W copy) Judge. It's a poor compromise from every standpoint. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

April 15, 2024, 09:35 PM	#29
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 433	I have an update on my son’s Governor. 45 Colt 225 Lever Revolution will not stabilize from this revolver which really surprised me?? I had high hopes for this load in the Governor. We usually pick an old drum to ventilate for target practice, shoot a hole and aim for the hole (15yds). Those 225 Flex Tips rip one hell of a hole when they land sideways! Almost every other round would keyhole! Now the Sellier & Bellot 45ACP 230gr hp I had grouped very nice, maybe better than anything else we’ve tried so far. Head scratcher.

April 17, 2024, 12:03 PM	#30
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	I pick up the Judge today - only purpose is snake control at 5 yards or so. I'm thinking it will do just fine for that, but I'm still going to load 45 Colt with cast slugs for it anyway, just for the grins and giggles.

April 17, 2024, 10:36 PM	#33
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 433	What would tungsten shot do to the forcing cone and rifling?

April 18, 2024, 06:31 PM	#37
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 433	If you are frequently around snakes and hogs they begin to make sense.

April 19, 2024, 09:20 PM	#38
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	Well, we had a great time with ours today. It's a bare bones bottom of the line revolver with a simple finish...and it worked perfectly. We practiced at snake range, one hand DA only shooting like we were controlling the dog from going after a snake. Ammo used was Winchester #6, new and some old, as well as Federal "Personal Defense 410 Handgun" ammo...5 000 Buck pellets. No, this is not supposed to be anyone's self defense sidearm for anything but snakes, but hey, you never know. # 6 shot spread out, but rapid fire follow ups are easy, so the chance of blanketing Scaley George with shot is pretty good. 000 Buck was interesting. Note holes in the center of the target. All in all, it does what we want, it's fun and easy to shoot, recoil is extremely manageable even with the "self defense" loads. We had a good time, and I think it will be just fine as snake medicine.