While I was in the Twilight Zone...

John/az2 · June 24, 1999, 01:55 PM

While I was in the Twilight Zone this afternoon I had the most lucid thought: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Sit-coms are a major contributor to the dumbing-down of the American public.[/quote]

Gad! I even had some very excellent examples, but upon the full recovery of conciousness they quickly faded away...

Should they return, I'll post a follow-up!

------------------
John/az

"They come, they eat, they leave...
"They come, they eat, they leave...NOT!!

Mendocino · June 24, 1999, 05:38 PM

Broadcast television, and to a lesser extent, cable television is truly the opiate of the masses...

Bruce in West Oz · June 24, 1999, 07:00 PM

John/Az2:

It's actually one of my hobbyhorses (hang on while I mount up ...)

We are, of course, heavily influenced by US sitcoms here.

I become quite irrational (unlike my normal sweet self) when I hear young adolescents mouthing the same shallow, trite drivel as they heard the night before. They have entire conversations without saying anything. It also, of course, flavours their attitude towards firearms -- "Guns bad, touchy-feely group hugs good" and if that doesn't work, bring in the "counsellors" to tell them what they should be feeling.

(Dismounts from hobbyhorse)

Cheers
B

Morgan · June 24, 1999, 07:05 PM

KILL YOUR TV!

Coinneach · June 24, 1999, 07:21 PM

Damn straight, kill your TV.

I killed mine with 5 charges of double-ought last fall. About all I miss now is South Park and Wings (Discovery Channel). The rest of it made me ill.

------------------
"We are going to fight. We are going to be hurt.
But in the end, we will stand."
--Roland Deschain

Kodiac · June 24, 1999, 08:06 PM

You can download all the South Park episodes off the web to watch in your leasure - I had all of them... but forgot where I got them... do some hunting... South Park, Simpsons... The Family Guy... Only thing worth watching...

Yeah, I like cartoons! So What?

------------------
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

boing · June 24, 1999, 11:02 PM

Kodiac, don't you know? When you're an adult, cartoons are called "animation". Someday I'll be able to call them "animation", too.

The only shows I watched for about eight years, Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Star Trek. The three "S"s.

This country has never been the same since the scourge called "Three's Company".

[This message has been edited by boing (edited June 25, 1999).]

**4V50 Gary** · June 25, 1999, 12:33 AM

You guys can have your "animations." I'll stick with Bugs Bunny, the Road Runner and Coyote. I'm also sick: I'd like to see Sylvester have Tweety for dinner.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

John/az2 · June 25, 1999, 12:51 AM

Not only inane, but conditioning.

When I used to watch them I would find myself laughing simply because they had the "laugh track" running. Upon reflection I found that whatever it was that THEY thought I should laugh at was not really amusing at all.

Even these "Morning shows"... Most of them I find on the same level as the sit-coms.

I turned both of them off and then found TFL! OH MAN! Out of the fire, into the FRYING PAN!!

------------------
John/az

"They come, they eat, they leave...
"They come, they eat, they leave...NOT!!

Bill Clinton (aka: Hopper) Al Gore (aka: Molt) Janet Reno (aka: Thumper)

Ant's UNITE!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited June 25, 1999).]

Hal · June 25, 1999, 05:51 AM

30 or so years ago there was a study done about cartoons and the influence they had on kids. Sorry, I can't quote the origin, it's been too long ago. One of the concerns pointed out was the influence of Asian culture being pushed on the American kids. Cartoons, because of the intensive hand labor involved, were being produced in foreign (read mostly Japan) countries, and as a result, the team concept was stressed. the individual was always cast as the bad guy, and the team was always cast as the good guys. Rocky and Bullwinkle always squared off one on one with Boris and Natasha, while Astro Boy and company always ganged up on a single opponent. Back then I dismissed it as a real way out idea. In April though, individuals went up against the team. I don't mean to infer what the 2 ba$tards at Littleton did was anything but a crime, or justify their actions in any way, but you gotta wonder about the messages being sent. Old farts like myself grew up with Shane and High Noon. Rambo was an individual, but was on the wrong side of the law. There seems to be a plural theme today that didn't exist back then.

------------------
(!)

DC · June 25, 1999, 08:23 AM

Hal makes an interesting point and scary point, that has become formulaic. Consider the last 10-15 yrs:

Simplified, some group of people decide that an activity (smoking); an attitude/intellectual/moral position (opposition to the gay lifestyle and preferred rights;abortion;affirmative action;religion,etc); ownership (guns; fur coats)....is bad and they want to do something about it.
First they protest and propagandize (generally as its harmful to "collectivism"). Second, they enlist the media, who puts greater collective spin on it and labels the "culprits" as individuals who have no regard for the rights/safety/sensitivities of "the majority". Inshort, demonization of those who practice the "bad" action/activity/attitude
Third, it becomes a political issue, attractive to politicians who in turn see it as a means of gaining greater control and power. Fourth, the government gets involved.

Its plainly obvious to me that individuality is now considered bad and that collectivism is considered good. Thus, the de facto destruction of the Bill of Rights has become easier and more acceptable...your rights are unimportant if they interfere with the collective will.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

Paul Revere · June 25, 1999, 09:53 AM

Propaganda Machines.

Educate yourself on the socialist's agenda and then sit back and read between the rhetoric, you'll be surprised at how much their message is being played.

It's a well known fact in the movie biz, to cut photos of refreshments into the feature film, subliminally inducing patrons to spend money at concession stands.

Dennis · June 26, 1999, 07:38 AM

DC,
Do you think your formula is a natural phenomenon or simply a natural progression of some kind?

Paul,
When I was a projectionist (military, overseas, NOT professional), we were told during our training that subliminal advertising, though somewhat effective, was against federal law. We immediately asked if it was against the law if it served military or governmental "training needs" rather than commercial advertising and were met with a blank stare.

DC · June 26, 1999, 08:40 AM

Dennis...

Its a much refined version of "the squeaky wheel". But, it is more....there is money and power involved. All these "grassroots" movements become high dollar lobby groups...MADD; HCI, etc.
The natural aspect is liberalism...bringing this back to John's topic; as the movement becomes known it is embraced by liberals, including Hollywood and the media and they run with it.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

45King · June 26, 1999, 03:24 PM

Dennis}Do you think your formula is a natural phenomenon or simply a natural progression of some kind?

Well, a "natural phenomenon" and a "natural progression" are basically the same thing, but I do believe that these things are natural occurences. Someone percieves something as being bad, and wants to eliminate or control it. Very natural. We humans have, as part of our innate makeup, a need to feel in control. We just have to be sure that what we try to control is in the best interests of individual rights and liberty, while also recognizing that many things we desire to control are beyond our ability to do so.

------------------
Shoot straight regards, Richard
The Shottist's Center forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=45acp45lc

Hoplite · June 26, 1999, 06:43 PM

Television induces a mild form of hypnosis (increased suggestiblity). I've heard pychologist say it has to do with the flashing lights (which you can't conciously see) and the abnormal sound level. Television has an immense ability to create a false concensus and reshape the views of people in the areas of sex, violence, politics, religion etc. and has certainly been used for just this purpose.

You should look at the people who control the industry. Are these the people you want to have control over a pipeline that goes right into the brain of you and your children?

When I first got out of college and did a little substitute teaching I was always amazed at the effect on the kids putting on a video would have. Even if the content was idiotic (even to the point the kids had to know it was idiotic) they would go from uncontrolled energy to a state of docility as soon as I put the TV on.

Oh well, enough of my rambling.

Shoot the TV, especially if you have kids.
And yes the Simpsons is the only show on TV worth watching!

thaddeus · June 26, 1999, 08:57 PM

To take the subject in a slightly different direction: I've always wanted a shirt that says
"Male Bashing: The Sport of the Nineties".

I revealed to my wife how just about every commercial and every comedy show have the same theme: The bumbling, stupid, wimpy husband goes against his wife's wishes, ends up screwing everything up, and the wife has to come in and save the shamed man.
Since I told my wife about this, she has noticed it a lot and is surprised that just about every comedy stems off of a man doing something stupid and a woman picking up the slack.

Then there is the conscious programming that is supposed to be "good" for society, such as the fact that producers consciously put minorities in power positions on shows in order to make us more used to seeing it and therefore programming us that it is normal. In fiction shows, look at every Judge, every Chief of Police, every boss/manager on TV, every person in power, and you will see a woman and/or minority (at least %90 of the time).
I am not saying the concept is bad, but it definitly falls under brainwashing, because it is a deliberate attempt to change how you see the world through programming, whether good or bad.

thaddeus

Dennis · June 27, 1999, 06:53 AM

Thaddeus,
A less paranoid person might say the TV programmers are only trying to secure a broader customer/viewer base.

I, on the other hand, agree with you. Destroy the family and government becomes the "daddy". Not in MY house!

Daddy Grump
-------
PS. I solicit input from the members of the house and then, as the final decison maker, they MUST do exactly what my wife told me to tell them to do.

Pinocchio Grump

LoneStar · June 27, 1999, 04:04 PM

Another problem I have with Sitcoms is how serious problems are miraculously solved in 1/2 hour (especially the touchy-feely "family" crap) without showing any of the hard work that is necessary to overcome any problem. I provides a wharped sense of reality, and helps feed the overall "Victim Mentality" that exists in our society. TV is how many "experience" a large portion of their lives, and when reality doesn't match what they've "experienced" , then people have no idea how to better their lives themselves. Then they look for someone to fix it for them. Ultimately this weakens individuals, and gives power to those organizations who claim to be able to fix problems for you, like Big Gov't and Corporations.

Now for the GOOD TV.
Simpsons & Southpark are Great, however Southpark does have an Anti-hunting spin.
I am a History Channel Junkie, especially the "History of the Gun" series. But it always gives me a real bad case of the "I Wants". I Wants an AK-47, I Wants a Luger Parabellum, I Wants another .45 1911, I Really Wants a Tommy Gun, and on and on.
Discovery Channel andThe Learning Channel are good TV.
I lost the "OutdoorLife" channel when I switched from cable to satelite dish, but that was good TV too.

Can't kill the TV yet, there is some good stuff out there, you just gotta look.
besides I need it for my video games.

June 24, 1999, 01:55 PM	#1
John/az2 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,729	While I was in the Twilight Zone this afternoon I had the most lucid thought: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Sit-coms are a major contributor to the dumbing-down of the American public.[/quote] Gad! I even had some very excellent examples, but upon the full recovery of conciousness they quickly faded away... Should they return, I'll post a follow-up! ------------------ John/az "They come, they eat, they leave... "They come, they eat, they leave...NOT!!

June 24, 1999, 05:38 PM	#2
Mendocino Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Posts: 403	Broadcast television, and to a lesser extent, cable television is truly the opiate of the masses...

June 24, 1999, 07:00 PM	#3
Bruce in West Oz Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 1999 Location: Western Australia Posts: 995	John/Az2: It's actually one of my hobbyhorses (hang on while I mount up ...) We are, of course, heavily influenced by US sitcoms here. I become quite irrational (unlike my normal sweet self) when I hear young adolescents mouthing the same shallow, trite drivel as they heard the night before. They have entire conversations without saying *anything. It also, of course, flavours their attitude towards firearms -- "Guns bad, touchy-feely group hugs good" and if that doesn't work, bring in the "counsellors" to tell them what they should* be feeling. (Dismounts from hobbyhorse) Cheers B

June 24, 1999, 07:05 PM	#4
Morgan Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Posts: 945	KILL YOUR TV!

June 24, 1999, 07:21 PM	#5
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Damn straight, kill your TV. I killed mine with 5 charges of double-ought last fall. About all I miss now is South Park and Wings (Discovery Channel). The rest of it made me ill. ------------------ "We are going to fight. We are going to be hurt. But in the end, we will stand." --Roland Deschain

June 24, 1999, 08:06 PM	#6
Kodiac Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Posts: 1,173	You can download all the South Park episodes off the web to watch in your leasure - I had all of them... but forgot where I got them... do some hunting... South Park, Simpsons... The Family Guy... Only thing worth watching... *Yeah, I like cartoons! So What?* ------------------ RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

June 24, 1999, 11:02 PM	#7
boing Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1998 Location: WNC Posts: 1,072	Kodiac, don't you know? When you're an adult, cartoons are called "animation". Someday I'll be able to call them "animation", too. The only shows I watched for about eight years, Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Star Trek. The three "S"s. This country has never been the same since the scourge called "Three's Company". [This message has been edited by boing (edited June 25, 1999).]

June 25, 1999, 12:33 AM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,854	You guys can have your "animations." I'll stick with Bugs Bunny, the Road Runner and Coyote. I'm also sick: I'd like to see Sylvester have Tweety for dinner. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

June 25, 1999, 12:51 AM	#9
John/az2 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,729	Not only inane, but conditioning. When I used to watch them I would find myself laughing simply because they had the "laugh track" running. Upon reflection I found that whatever it was that THEY thought I should laugh at was not really amusing at all. Even these "Morning shows"... Most of them I find on the same level as the sit-coms. I turned both of them off and then found TFL! OH MAN! Out of the fire, into the FRYING PAN!! ------------------ John/az "They come, they eat, they leave... "They come, they eat, they leave...NOT!! Bill Clinton (aka: Hopper) Al Gore (aka: Molt) Janet Reno (aka: Thumper) Ant's UNITE! [This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited June 25, 1999).]

June 25, 1999, 05:51 AM	#10
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	30 or so years ago there was a study done about cartoons and the influence they had on kids. Sorry, I can't quote the origin, it's been too long ago. One of the concerns pointed out was the influence of Asian culture being pushed on the American kids. Cartoons, because of the intensive hand labor involved, were being produced in foreign (read mostly Japan) countries, and as a result, the team concept was stressed. the individual was always cast as the bad guy, and the team was always cast as the good guys. Rocky and Bullwinkle always squared off one on one with Boris and Natasha, while Astro Boy and company always ganged up on a single opponent. Back then I dismissed it as a real way out idea. In April though, individuals went up against the team. I don't mean to infer what the 2 ba$tards at Littleton did was anything but a crime, or justify their actions in any way, but you gotta wonder about the messages being sent. Old farts like myself grew up with Shane and High Noon. Rambo was an individual, but was on the wrong side of the law. There seems to be a plural theme today that didn't exist back then. ------------------ (!)

June 25, 1999, 08:23 AM	#11
DC Moderator Emeritus Join Date: September 30, 1998 Location: Calif Posts: 4,229	Hal makes an interesting point and scary point, that has become formulaic. Consider the last 10-15 yrs: Simplified, some group of people decide that an activity (smoking); an attitude/intellectual/moral position (opposition to the gay lifestyle and preferred rights;abortion;affirmative action;religion,etc); ownership (guns; fur coats)....is bad and they want to do something about it. First they protest and propagandize (generally as its harmful to "collectivism"). Second, they enlist the media, who puts greater collective spin on it and labels the "culprits" as individuals who have no regard for the rights/safety/sensitivities of "the majority". Inshort, demonization of those who practice the "bad" action/activity/attitude Third, it becomes a political issue, attractive to politicians who in turn see it as a means of gaining greater control and power. Fourth, the government gets involved. Its plainly obvious to me that individuality is now considered bad and that collectivism is considered good. Thus, the de facto destruction of the Bill of Rights has become easier and more acceptable...your rights are unimportant if they interfere with the collective will. ------------------ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

June 25, 1999, 09:53 AM	#12
Paul Revere Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 1999 Posts: 624	Propaganda Machines. Educate yourself on the socialist's agenda and then sit back and read between the rhetoric, you'll be surprised at how much their message is being played. It's a well known fact in the movie biz, to cut photos of refreshments into the feature film, subliminally inducing patrons to spend money at concession stands.

June 26, 1999, 07:38 AM	#13
Dennis Staff Emeritus Join Date: November 23, 1998 Location: a small forest in Texas Posts: 7,079	DC, Do you think your formula is a natural phenomenon or simply a natural progression of some kind? Paul, When I was a projectionist (military, overseas, NOT professional), we were told during our training that subliminal advertising, though somewhat effective, was against federal law. We immediately asked if it was against the law if it served military or governmental "training needs" rather than commercial advertising and were met with a blank stare.

June 26, 1999, 08:40 AM	#14
DC Moderator Emeritus Join Date: September 30, 1998 Location: Calif Posts: 4,229	Dennis... Its a much refined version of "the squeaky wheel". But, it is more....there is money and power involved. All these "grassroots" movements become high dollar lobby groups...MADD; HCI, etc. The natural aspect is liberalism...bringing this back to John's topic; as the movement becomes known it is embraced by liberals, including Hollywood and the media and they run with it. ------------------ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

June 26, 1999, 03:24 PM	#15
45King Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 1999 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 1,033	Dennis}Do you think your formula is a natural phenomenon or simply a natural progression of some kind? Well, a "natural phenomenon" and a "natural progression" are basically the same thing, but I do believe that these things are natural occurences. Someone percieves something as being bad, and wants to eliminate or control it. Very natural. We humans have, as part of our innate makeup, a need to feel in control. We just have to be sure that what we try to control is in the best interests of individual rights and liberty, while also recognizing that many things we desire to control are beyond our ability to do so. ------------------ Shoot straight regards, Richard The Shottist's Center forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=45acp45lc

June 26, 1999, 06:43 PM	#16
Hoplite Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Posts: 30	Television induces a mild form of hypnosis (increased suggestiblity). I've heard pychologist say it has to do with the flashing lights (which you can't conciously see) and the abnormal sound level. Television has an immense ability to create a false concensus and reshape the views of people in the areas of sex, violence, politics, religion etc. and has certainly been used for just this purpose. You should look at the people who control the industry. Are these the people you want to have control over a pipeline that goes right into the brain of you and your children? When I first got out of college and did a little substitute teaching I was always amazed at the effect on the kids putting on a video would have. Even if the content was idiotic (even to the point the kids had to know it was idiotic) they would go from uncontrolled energy to a state of docility as soon as I put the TV on. Oh well, enough of my rambling. Shoot the TV, especially if you have kids. And yes the Simpsons is the only show on TV worth watching!

June 26, 1999, 08:57 PM	#17
thaddeus Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 1999 Location: San Diego Posts: 351	To take the subject in a slightly different direction: I've always wanted a shirt that says "Male Bashing: The Sport of the Nineties". I revealed to my wife how just about every commercial and every comedy show have the same theme: The bumbling, stupid, wimpy husband goes against his wife's wishes, ends up screwing everything up, and the wife has to come in and save the shamed man. Since I told my wife about this, she has noticed it a lot and is surprised that just about every comedy stems off of a man doing something stupid and a woman picking up the slack. Then there is the conscious programming that is supposed to be "good" for society, such as the fact that producers consciously put minorities in power positions on shows in order to make us more used to seeing it and therefore programming us that it is normal. In fiction shows, look at every Judge, every Chief of Police, every boss/manager on TV, every person in power, and you will see a woman and/or minority (at least %90 of the time). I am not saying the concept is bad, but it definitly falls under brainwashing, because it is a deliberate attempt to change how you see the world through programming, whether good or bad. thaddeus

June 27, 1999, 06:53 AM	#18
Dennis Staff Emeritus Join Date: November 23, 1998 Location: a small forest in Texas Posts: 7,079	Thaddeus, A less paranoid person might say the TV programmers are only trying to secure a broader customer/viewer base. I, on the other hand, agree with you. Destroy the family and government becomes the "daddy". Not in MY house! Daddy Grump ------- PS. I solicit input from the members of the house and then, as the final decison maker, they MUST do exactly what my wife told me to tell them to do. Pinocchio Grump

June 27, 1999, 04:04 PM	#19
LoneStar Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas USA Posts: 259	Another problem I have with Sitcoms is how serious problems are miraculously solved in 1/2 hour (especially the touchy-feely "family" crap) without showing any of the hard work that is necessary to overcome any problem. I provides a wharped sense of reality, and helps feed the overall "Victim Mentality" that exists in our society. TV is how many "experience" a large portion of their lives, and when reality doesn't match what they've "experienced" , then people have no idea how to better their lives themselves. Then they look for someone to fix it for them. Ultimately this weakens individuals, and gives power to those organizations who claim to be able to fix problems for you, like Big Gov't and Corporations. Now for the GOOD TV. Simpsons & Southpark are Great, however Southpark does have an Anti-hunting spin. I am a History Channel Junkie, especially the "History of the Gun" series. But it always gives me a real bad case of the "I Wants". I Wants an AK-47, I Wants a Luger Parabellum, I Wants another .45 1911, I Really Wants a Tommy Gun, and on and on. Discovery Channel andThe Learning Channel are good TV. I lost the "OutdoorLife" channel when I switched from cable to satelite dish, but that was good TV too. Can't kill the TV yet, there is some good stuff out there, you just gotta look. besides I need it for my video games.