Worst Handgun Myths/Fallacies - Page 4

pesta2 · January 5, 2007, 01:14 PM

ExtremeDooty:

I worked at the most anti gun office. They would say all the time “no one should be allowed to own a gun.” Ridicule gun owners, NRA, say that people that owns them has a wish to be able to kill someone with it one some day. Well they own a cabin in the mountains and one day the daughter was there alone and a bear came up to the door and was trying to get in, she called her dad to ask where the gun was at. Anti gunners are the most contradicting people in the world. Buy the way they also feed those bears which is illegal to do, hum wonder why it tried to get in the house.

BobR. · January 5, 2007, 01:26 PM

That some gun owners are not simply poor parents, who prefer to blame their children, for their own failings.

The Immortal · January 5, 2007, 01:39 PM

People only need one gun for self-defense. The same person has multiple golf clubs.

Playboypenguin · January 5, 2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

That some gun owners are not simply poor parents, who prefer to blame their children, for their own failings.

Failings such as not having the good sense to not leave loaded firearms around unsupervised children?

Mark54g · January 5, 2007, 02:44 PM

Guys, this is actually an interesting thread. Can we please take the pissing contest to private messages?

Daves-got-guns · January 5, 2007, 03:18 PM

people got serious attitudes on this entire forum, and i don't get it. Oh you leave your gun out fully loaded and i hope darwin gits your kiddies blah. If i am ever lucky enough to have kids, there will be one gun that is loaded, a handgun and in a easy dispatchable location. I will hope for a locking bedroom door, but if not then nobody but me and maybe the ole lady will know where that gun is. The rest will be in the safe. After a certain age, depending on this or that i will make it obvious that there is a loaded gun in the house, its not a toy and if they ever get curious i will show them the workings at a range and to just ask to see it, instead of snooping around and i will show it to them, let them handle it etc, and train them on how to use it, after they have proven themself responsible of course.

Samurai · January 5, 2007, 05:06 PM

Wow! "I hope Darwin gits 'yer kiddies." I should put that in my signature line! That's funny!

Daves-got-guns · January 5, 2007, 05:22 PM

haha sorry, but i just dont see the need to go overboard on this one, and well ya know that is a funny statement, looking back. Do what ya please i got no copywrights on it.

yomama · January 5, 2007, 05:31 PM

When a child is able to understand the operation of a gun, and the reprocusions of what a bullet does, there are no limits to the devistation this may cause. As it is your duty to protect your children, you must teach them, but this does not mean to trust them.
The only safe place in the home with a child is on my person, and in my safe.

**Bud Helms** · January 5, 2007, 05:46 PM

You know, when a thread gets to the point that a mod has to try and monitor every post to make sure some member doesn't forget that TFL is for adults, it's time to just shut it down, One more "I know better than you and you're stupid" post and this one's history.

redhawk41 · January 5, 2007, 06:59 PM

Worst Handgun Myths/Fallacies ...

... handloads are unsuitable for self-defense.

BillCA · January 6, 2007, 05:19 AM

I just remembered a few more "favorite" myths...

* Guns are not as well regulated as Teddy Bears
(When was the last time you had to get clearance to buy a teddy bear?)

* The CPSC needs to regulate guns. :barf:
(CPSC = consumer product safety commission = nerf worlders)

* Women are better off without a handgun. A man will only take it away from her and use it against her.

Someoldguy · January 6, 2007, 07:30 AM

Pardon me if this has already been covered:

"That (insert caliber here) is ineffective because I heard a story about a guy being shot by one and lived."

I heard this story about a male victim being shot in the abdomen by a .45 Colt, leading the storyteller to conclude that the .45 Colt revolver cartridge was ineffective for self-defense because that particular victim remained conscious and alert.
But when asked if he'd like to volunteer to test the ineffectiveness of the .45, the storyteller could only shake his head and smile sheepishly.

GoSlash27 · January 6, 2007, 08:21 AM

Redhawk,
Not trying to flame, but I hope for your sake you never have to use a handload in self defense. No matter how justified the shoot, you're gonna do hard time.

Ozzieman · January 6, 2007, 09:40 AM

I have seen each and every one of these described in a movie.
And movies are never wrong.

Any one notice that most of these did come from movies at one time or another.

AFshooter · January 6, 2007, 10:59 AM

The following is one of the worst fallacies I have heard so far:

Quote:

Redhawk,
Not trying to flame, but I hope for your sake you never have to use a handload in self defense. No matter how justified the shoot, you're gonna do hard time.

G-Cym · January 6, 2007, 11:06 AM

Actually, there is a lot of truth to that. A prosecuting DA is gonna have a field day with handloads.

"So you decided that store bought ammunition wasn't good enough?? You had to make it more powerful on your own??"

newerguy · January 6, 2007, 11:42 AM

I don't know about how prosecutors in every part of the country are going to view handloads. I also don't know how a civil jury will see it in every part of the country. I can bet that a NYC DA will make and issue of it, and a NYC jury (criminal or civil) is likely to take the "he made his own bullets so they would be deadlier" argument seriously. I don't know that its a automatic slam dunk for a DA anywhere, and I'd be there DAs out there who wouldn't think its a big deal, and if the shooting was otherwise legal, the handload issue wouldn't be a factor.

That said, my father used to handload a lot. I never bothered to take his press after he died, since I don't have a bench to reload on. I probably should since buying reloads (let alone factory ammo) gets expensive, but I’ve gotten by fine for years. He used to tell me never to use reloads for defense because he felt they were more likely to go bad than factory ammo.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't trust myself to load more reliably than Winchester. I have never seated bullets over empty cases. When I used to reload for rifles, if they were hunting rounds I'd weigh every charge. I have loaded over bad primers. I have never had a factory round with a bad primer. I'd rather carry premium factory ammo over my lowest cost reloads. If you are downloading .44 magnum to carry, that I can sort of understand, since there isn't much variety in factory .44 specials (or so it was last time I looked for .44 special ammo). But a .44 magnum wouldn't be my preference anyway, except afield.

pax · January 6, 2007, 12:00 PM

http://www.corneredcat.com/Legal/myths.htm

If you shoot someone on the porch of your home, you should drag the body back inside.
.
Since I don't want to kill anyone, I could just shoot an attacker in the arm or leg instead of shooting him in the torso or head. That wouldn't be using deadly force since I wouldn't want to kill him.
.
Learning about the law will just slow me down if I need to defend myself; I don't need to think about the law.
.
I won't get arrested or be charged with a crime if I shoot someone, because there are a lot of gun owners where I live and the legal/political climate is very friendly to gun ownership and self-defense.
.
My gun is a ______, and just the sight of it will make a criminal run away in fear. I won't ever have to actually fire it.

Heh. Had a long & interesting conversation with my father in law about the first one, a long time back. Don't think I changed his mind, but maybe gave him a thing or two to think about.

pax

The problem with most folks ain't their ignorance, it's that they know so much that just ain't so. -- Mark Twain

G-Cym · January 6, 2007, 12:03 PM

That's another good point. Handloads may be great for practicing on the cheap. But I don't trust myself more than Federal or CCI when it comes to SD rounds.

atblis · January 6, 2007, 12:18 PM

There seems to be a general belief that autoloaders are more accurate than revolvers (among other things).

I think a good many SIG/Glock/HK/(insert_tacticool_autoloader_ featured_ in_a_first_person_shooter_here) lovers would be floored/embarrassed by a K38 (I've done it ).

RV4driver · January 6, 2007, 02:34 PM

"at the sheer terror of having been shot, he will voluntarilly leap backward through the wall."

Now thats some funny stuff right there, I don't care who you are!

Two things I was told in Coast Guard boot camp, weapon qualification at Camp Parks, Kalifornia...let's just say "before the eighties"
-1. "The .45 (1911) was developed during the Korean war, specifically because the North Koreans were so juiced on drugs that they just kept coming after being shot, so the 1911 was developed to not only stop them, but move them back 5 feet" (Apparently completely reversing their momentum) I think I saw this in a lot of movies!
-2. "The bullet from the M16 is small, but it tumbles in flight, so the damage is HUGE, just like the exit wound. It sort of blows them apart."

Jeff

Keep this in mind next time someone is considered an expert because he/she was in the service.

dixierifleman · January 6, 2007, 02:47 PM

wow. i wonder why they call it the 1911 then? maybe its cause they get blown back 19 feet and end up in 11 pieces

Mark54g · January 6, 2007, 04:03 PM

Then lets add another.

No offense to any in law enforcement or military service, but because you guys went through basic training or the academy, it does not automagically make an expert out of you.

This is double for the people who insist that a friend of their father's was in the army/navy/coast guard/US Post office/Supermarket Produce section and he said that X does this and Y does that.

I have respect for those that put their lives on the line for my freedom. I don't, however respect the right of any to make an ass of themselves, regardless of other great things they may have done. They are seperate events. I may cut them some slack, but lies are lies, and BS is BS. Lets just understand that there are real experts, some of which are on this board, some of which write books, and even EXPERTS are wrong now and again. Those of us with <5000rds under our belts are whelps when it comes to these guys. Those with 10,000+rds are still just getting started.

Playboypenguin · January 6, 2007, 04:54 PM

Mark54g,

I will be the first to admit that basic training teaches you almost nothing about firearms. Neither did the state police academy training.

Luckily I went into both with a strong firearms background. Still, my knowledge leaned mostly towards how to load, handle, shoot and care for firearms. I was by no means a ballistics expert and I am still not one. Nor am I anywhere near being a gunsmith...I can barely disassemle and reassemble my autoloaders.

As far as the specifics of firearms go, I have probably learned more in the last year from this board than all my personal experiences.

January 5, 2007, 01:14 PM	#76
pesta2 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Location: Fairmont, WV Posts: 1,682	ExtremeDooty: I worked at the most anti gun office. They would say all the time “no one should be allowed to own a gun.” Ridicule gun owners, NRA, say that people that owns them has a wish to be able to kill someone with it one some day. Well they own a cabin in the mountains and one day the daughter was there alone and a bear came up to the door and was trying to get in, she called her dad to ask where the gun was at. Anti gunners are the most contradicting people in the world. Buy the way they also feed those bears which is illegal to do, hum wonder why it tried to get in the house. __________________ http://www.stevekonya.com

January 5, 2007, 01:39 PM	#78
The Immortal Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Posts: 54	People only need one gun for self-defense. The same person has multiple golf clubs. __________________ "Stranger, when you see me lying here, go tell the Spartans that I answered their call”

January 5, 2007, 02:44 PM	#80
Mark54g Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 1,265	Guys, this is actually an interesting thread. Can we please take the pissing contest to private messages? __________________ CZ 75B Stainless Beretta PX4 F Series 9mm & U22 Neos 6" black S&W Shield 9mm

January 5, 2007, 05:06 PM	#82
Samurai Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 901	Wow! "I hope Darwin gits 'yer kiddies." I should put that in my signature line! That's funny! __________________ - Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed! - Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight? - When in doubt, train, train, train...

January 5, 2007, 06:59 PM	#86
redhawk41 Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2005 Location: Red Desert Posts: 819	*Worst Handgun Myths/Fallacies ...* ... handloads are unsuitable for self-defense. __________________ {empty thought cloud}

January 5, 2007, 01:26 PM	#77
BobR. Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2006 Posts: 70	That some gun owners are not simply poor parents, who prefer to blame their children, for their own failings.

January 5, 2007, 03:18 PM	#81
Daves-got-guns Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2006 Location: Marysville Washington Posts: 291	people got serious attitudes on this entire forum, and i don't get it. Oh you leave your gun out fully loaded and i hope darwin gits your kiddies blah. If i am ever lucky enough to have kids, there will be one gun that is loaded, a handgun and in a easy dispatchable location. I will hope for a locking bedroom door, but if not then nobody but me and maybe the ole lady will know where that gun is. The rest will be in the safe. After a certain age, depending on this or that i will make it obvious that there is a loaded gun in the house, its not a toy and if they ever get curious i will show them the workings at a range and to just ask to see it, instead of snooping around and i will show it to them, let them handle it etc, and train them on how to use it, after they have proven themself responsible of course.

January 5, 2007, 05:22 PM	#83
Daves-got-guns Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2006 Location: Marysville Washington Posts: 291	haha sorry, but i just dont see the need to go overboard on this one, and well ya know that is a funny statement, looking back. Do what ya please i got no copywrights on it.

January 5, 2007, 05:31 PM	#84
yomama Junior member Join Date: February 28, 2006 Posts: 509	When a child is able to understand the operation of a gun, and the reprocusions of what a bullet does, there are no limits to the devistation this may cause. As it is your duty to protect your children, you must teach them, but this does not mean to trust them. The only safe place in the home with a child is on my person, and in my safe.

January 5, 2007, 05:46 PM	#85
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	You know, when a thread gets to the point that a mod has to try and monitor every post to make sure some member doesn't forget that TFL is for adults, it's time to just shut it down, One more "I know better than you and you're stupid" post and this one's history.

January 6, 2007, 05:19 AM	#87
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	I just remembered a few more "favorite" myths... * Guns are not as well regulated as Teddy Bears (When was the last time you had to get clearance to buy a teddy bear?) * The CPSC needs to regulate guns. :barf: (CPSC = consumer product safety commission = nerf worlders) * Women are better off without a handgun. A man will only take it away from her and use it against her. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

January 6, 2007, 07:30 AM	#88
Someoldguy Member Join Date: January 5, 2007 Location: Southeastern US Posts: 27	Handgun myths Pardon me if this has already been covered: "That (insert caliber here) is ineffective because I heard a story about a guy being shot by one and lived." I heard this story about a male victim being shot in the abdomen by a .45 Colt, leading the storyteller to conclude that the .45 Colt revolver cartridge was ineffective for self-defense because that particular victim remained conscious and alert. But when asked if he'd like to volunteer to test the ineffectiveness of the .45, the storyteller could only shake his head and smile sheepishly. __________________ --au revoir!

January 6, 2007, 08:21 AM	#89
GoSlash27 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 3,118	Redhawk, Not trying to flame, but I hope for your sake you never have to use a handload in self defense. No matter how justified the shoot, you're gonna do hard time. __________________ Bill of Rights Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Not available in all states. Some restrictions apply.

January 6, 2007, 09:40 AM	#90
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	You people are all wrong I have seen each and every one of these described in a movie. And movies are never wrong. Any one notice that most of these did come from movies at one time or another.

January 6, 2007, 11:06 AM	#92
G-Cym Junior member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 366	Actually, there is a lot of truth to that. A prosecuting DA is gonna have a field day with handloads. "So you decided that store bought ammunition wasn't good enough?? You had to make it more powerful on your own??"

January 6, 2007, 11:42 AM	#93
newerguy Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2005 Posts: 218	Handloads I don't know about how prosecutors in every part of the country are going to view handloads. I also don't know how a civil jury will see it in every part of the country. I can bet that a NYC DA will make and issue of it, and a NYC jury (criminal or civil) is likely to take the "he made his own bullets so they would be deadlier" argument seriously. I don't know that its a automatic slam dunk for a DA anywhere, and I'd be there DAs out there who wouldn't think its a big deal, and if the shooting was otherwise legal, the handload issue wouldn't be a factor. That said, my father used to handload a lot. I never bothered to take his press after he died, since I don't have a bench to reload on. I probably should since buying reloads (let alone factory ammo) gets expensive, but I’ve gotten by fine for years. He used to tell me never to use reloads for defense because he felt they were more likely to go bad than factory ammo. Maybe, maybe not. I don't trust myself to load more reliably than Winchester. I have never seated bullets over empty cases. When I used to reload for rifles, if they were hunting rounds I'd weigh every charge. I have loaded over bad primers. I have never had a factory round with a bad primer. I'd rather carry premium factory ammo over my lowest cost reloads. If you are downloading .44 magnum to carry, that I can sort of understand, since there isn't much variety in factory .44 specials (or so it was last time I looked for .44 special ammo). But a .44 magnum wouldn't be my preference anyway, except afield.

January 6, 2007, 12:00 PM	#94
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	http://www.corneredcat.com/Legal/myths.htm If you shoot someone on the porch of your home, you should drag the body back inside. . Since I don't want to kill anyone, I could just shoot an attacker in the arm or leg instead of shooting him in the torso or head. That wouldn't be using deadly force since I wouldn't want to kill him. . Learning about the law will just slow me down if I need to defend myself; I don't need to think about the law. . I won't get arrested or be charged with a crime if I shoot someone, because there are a lot of gun owners where I live and the legal/political climate is very friendly to gun ownership and self-defense. . My gun is a ______, and just the sight of it will make a criminal run away in fear. I won't ever have to actually fire it. Heh. Had a long & interesting conversation with my father in law about the first one, a long time back. Don't think I changed his mind, but maybe gave him a thing or two to think about. pax The problem with most folks ain't their ignorance, it's that they know so much that just ain't so. -- Mark Twain

January 6, 2007, 12:03 PM	#95
G-Cym Junior member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 366	That's another good point. Handloads may be great for practicing on the cheap. But I don't trust myself more than Federal or CCI when it comes to SD rounds.

January 6, 2007, 12:18 PM	#96
atblis Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2005 Posts: 441	Revolver v. Auto There seems to be a general belief that autoloaders are more accurate than revolvers (among other things). I think a good many SIG/Glock/HK/(insert_tacticool_autoloader_ featured_ in_a_first_person_shooter_here) lovers would be floored/embarrassed by a K38 (I've done it ).

January 6, 2007, 02:34 PM	#97
RV4driver Member Join Date: September 17, 2006 Posts: 29	We have a winner! "at the sheer terror of having been shot, he will voluntarilly leap backward through the wall." Now thats some funny stuff right there, I don't care who you are! Two things I was told in Coast Guard boot camp, weapon qualification at Camp Parks, Kalifornia...let's just say "before the eighties" -1. "The .45 (1911) was developed during the Korean war, specifically because the North Koreans were so juiced on drugs that they just kept coming after being shot, so the 1911 was developed to not only stop them, but move them back 5 feet" (Apparently completely reversing their momentum) I think I saw this in a lot of movies! -2. "The bullet from the M16 is small, but it tumbles in flight, so the damage is HUGE, just like the exit wound. It sort of blows them apart." Jeff Keep this in mind next time someone is considered an expert because he/she was in the service.

January 6, 2007, 02:47 PM	#98
dixierifleman Junior member Join Date: November 30, 2006 Posts: 355	wow. i wonder why they call it the 1911 then? maybe its cause they get blown back 19 feet and end up in 11 pieces Last edited by dixierifleman; January 6, 2007 at 04:13 PM.

January 6, 2007, 04:03 PM	#99
Mark54g Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 1,265	Then lets add another. No offense to any in law enforcement or military service, but because you guys went through basic training or the academy, it does not automagically make an expert out of you. This is double for the people who insist that a friend of their father's was in the army/navy/coast guard/US Post office/Supermarket Produce section and he said that X does this and Y does that. I have respect for those that put their lives on the line for my freedom. I don't, however respect the right of any to make an ass of themselves, regardless of other great things they may have done. They are seperate events. I may cut them some slack, but lies are lies, and BS is BS. Lets just understand that there are real experts, some of which are on this board, some of which write books, and even EXPERTS are wrong now and again. Those of us with <5000rds under our belts are whelps when it comes to these guys. Those with 10,000+rds are still just getting started. __________________ CZ 75B Stainless Beretta PX4 F Series 9mm & U22 Neos 6" black S&W Shield 9mm

January 6, 2007, 04:54 PM	#100
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	Mark54g, I will be the first to admit that basic training teaches you almost nothing about firearms. Neither did the state police academy training. Luckily I went into both with a strong firearms background. Still, my knowledge leaned mostly towards how to load, handle, shoot and care for firearms. I was by no means a ballistics expert and I am still not one. Nor am I anywhere near being a gunsmith...I can barely disassemle and reassemble my autoloaders. As far as the specifics of firearms go, I have probably learned more in the last year from this board than all my personal experiences.