Kibler Kit

Hawg · December 13, 2023, 07:26 PM

I've been wanting a flintlock rifle for a long time. I don't spend a lot of money now so I decided to go ahead and get a Kibler Woodsrunner kit. I was worried that I'd just mess it up but it's practically already built. All the inletting is perfect. The butt plate, trigger guard and entry pipe are already installed. The barrel is a .54 caliber Green Mountain and is swamped. All the holes are drilled and tapped where called for. The lugs for the ramrod thimbles are forged with the barrel. The barrel has very little tool marks. The butt plate is almost finished and the wood to metal fit as is isn't all that bad. It will take very little sanding to mate the wood to the metal. The trigger guard is the worst. I ordered a plain maple stock but it has some figure to it and even some striping.

ligonierbill · December 13, 2023, 08:59 PM

We all like fancy wood, but many old guns are plain. When your life depends on it, reliability and accuracy trump tiger stripes. When I built one "from scratch ", I went with plain wood figuring I'd botch it. Didn't, but I'm glad I stayed plain.

Good luck with your project.

Hawg · December 14, 2023, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ligonierbill

We all like fancy wood, but many old guns are plain. When your life depends on it, reliability and accuracy trump tiger stripes. When I built one "from scratch ", I went with plain wood figuring I'd botch it. Didn't, but I'm glad I stayed plain.

Good luck with your project.

I ordered plain wood. This is what they sent. No, I'm not complaining.

Oliver Sudden · December 14, 2023, 09:59 AM

I got the medium grade wood on mine, looks like you got nearly the same grade! You’ll be dazzled by how that rifle feels in your hand.

Hawg · December 14, 2023, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Sudden

I got the medium grade wood on mine, looks like you got nearly the same grade! You’ll be dazzled by how that rifle feels in your hand.

Got pics?

I am dazzled by it. Jim says to assemble it before doing any sanding. It feels amazing. I never had anything with a swamped barrel before and it balances perfectly.

Oliver Sudden · December 14, 2023, 11:37 AM

Sorry I don’t know how to make them smaller.

IMG_0031 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

**4V50 Gary** · December 14, 2023, 11:58 AM

That's good for plain wood.

Kibler kits are great for beginners.

Hawg · December 14, 2023, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Sudden

Sorry I don’t know how to make them smaller.

IMG_0031 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

I like it. It's gorgeous. How did you make the brass end on the patchbox cover?

ligonierbill · December 14, 2023, 12:29 PM

Looks like they're good for anyone, beginner or not. That is nice wood.

Oliver Sudden · December 14, 2023, 04:46 PM

I made the toe plate, patch box end and ram rod tip to gussy it up a bit. The end piece was a piece of brass that got bent to shape and filed to fit.

Hawg · December 15, 2023, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Sudden

I made the toe plate, patch box end and ram rod tip to gussy it up a bit. The end piece was a piece of brass that got bent to shape and filed to fit.

You did a good job on it.

Hawg · December 20, 2023, 01:52 AM

I have made some progress with it. I've got the nose cap and butt plate mated to the stock and got the ramrod slimmed down so it fits the hole in the stock. I even got the tip put on and pinned. I used a bigger nail to pin it than the one that came with it. I couldn't find a drill bit that would work with it. The pics make it look worse than it is. you can run your fingers across the joints and you won't be able to feel where wood meets metal. There are a few spots where you can barely feel it with your thumbnail on the butt plate but I'm calling it good. The next project is filing the tang down. I haven't polished any of the metal yet. I've got the whole stock sanded down with 120 and 220 grit. I've been over it twice with 220 but I keep finding tool marks. I'm sanding those spots as I find them. Once I get them all out to my satisfaction I'll go over the whole stock with 320.

As you can see the tang is going to take a good bit of filing.

If there's anything you see that you think needs more work say so.

ligonierbill · December 20, 2023, 07:46 AM

Looks good! Those dang tool marks seem to procreate.

Hawg · December 20, 2023, 08:12 AM

Thanks and yeah they do. I thought I had them all several times but I always find more.

Oliver Sudden · December 20, 2023, 10:05 AM

Don’t file the tang down, figure out why it isn’t pulled down by the screw. To make it easier to get the machine marks out of the wood use a weak water based stain to put a bit of color in the wood. Then use fine sand paper (320) and you’ll see the marks well.

Hawg · December 20, 2023, 11:15 AM

I think the inlet isn't deep enough. In Jim's building video it shows him filing it down so I just assumed it was a necessary thing. If I was good with hand tools I'd deepen the inlet and bend the tang down some. That's a good idea about the weak stain.

Gemmer · December 20, 2023, 11:18 AM

I agree with Oliver Sudden, don’t file the tang!

Hawg · December 20, 2023, 11:32 AM

I'll measure it and see if I can bend it down some. If I can't I'll have to file it. I have the chisels and gouges to deepen the inlet but I don't have the experience to use them.

ligonierbill · December 20, 2023, 11:43 AM

Sharp chisel, mallet, patience (and more patience). Since you are only changing the depth of the inlet, it's fairly straightforward.

Hawg · December 20, 2023, 01:58 PM

It's really not that much. The camera makes it look worse than it is. The battery in my calipers is dead so I can't tell how much difference there is but the tang is definitely thicker than the inlet is deep. There's a lot of meat on the tang so I don't see where filing a few thousandths off is going to hurt anything. The screw does pull the tang down into the inlet some without any strain but when it stops it stops solid. I think I'm going to file the bottom until I get past the screw hole so I don't mess up the countersink and then file from the top where the tang is thicker.

l.cutler · December 21, 2023, 05:00 AM

Breech fit is crucial, so make sure that is right before addressing the tang. Make sure the barrel is seated to where the touch hole location is correct. If the tang needs to go deeper to make that happen, then so be it. You definitely want the barrel/breech/tang to lay into place without being pulled by the screw. If you have any doubts whatsoever reach out to Jim Kibler, he is very responsive and helpful.

Hawg · December 22, 2023, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l.cutler

Breech fit is crucial, so make sure that is right before addressing the tang. Make sure the barrel is seated to where the touch hole location is correct. If the tang needs to go deeper to make that happen, then so be it. You definitely want the barrel/breech/tang to lay into place without being pulled by the screw. If you have any doubts whatsoever reach out to Jim Kibler, he is very responsive and helpful.

In Jim's video the end of the tang is pulled deeper with the screw. Barrel fit and touch hole is correct. I've decided to not file from the bottom but will file from the top like in the video.

Hawg · December 28, 2023, 12:46 AM

I gave up on draw filing. The file marks were worse than the tool marks so I tried some 150 grit sandpaper and it works better. Definitely not faster but better and easier on my back. This is what I started with.

This is after 150 grit. I'll probably go on up to 320.

The stock is done at 320. Joke on me is I couldn't figure out why the patchbox cover didn't fit flush anymore. Then it hit me the butt plate wasn't on it. D'OH

Hawg · January 23, 2024, 11:41 AM

I've been working on it a little bit. I've got the stock done except for oiling. I forgot to take pics after I put the iron nitrate on but it was a grayish green. This is after heating and neutralizing. I like the color but the figure isn't as strong as I would have liked. Maybe the oil will bring it out better. The patch box lid came out darker. It also has places that are lighter even tho I got even coverage. I think the nose cap came out really well even tho I didn't want shiny.

ligonierbill · January 23, 2024, 01:30 PM

Looks great. I wouldn't sweat the figure. In the day, many fine rifles had fairly plain wood.

December 13, 2023, 07:26 PM	#1
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	Kibler Kit I've been wanting a flintlock rifle for a long time. I don't spend a lot of money now so I decided to go ahead and get a Kibler Woodsrunner kit. I was worried that I'd just mess it up but it's practically already built. All the inletting is perfect. The butt plate, trigger guard and entry pipe are already installed. The barrel is a .54 caliber Green Mountain and is swamped. All the holes are drilled and tapped where called for. The lugs for the ramrod thimbles are forged with the barrel. The barrel has very little tool marks. The butt plate is almost finished and the wood to metal fit as is isn't all that bad. It will take very little sanding to mate the wood to the metal. The trigger guard is the worst. I ordered a plain maple stock but it has some figure to it and even some striping.

December 14, 2023, 09:59 AM	#4
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	I got the medium grade wood on mine, looks like you got nearly the same grade! You’ll be dazzled by how that rifle feels in your hand. Last edited by Oliver Sudden; December 14, 2023 at 10:06 AM.

December 14, 2023, 11:58 AM	#7
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,855	That's good for plain wood. Kibler kits are great for beginners. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 13, 2023, 08:59 PM	#2
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,462	We all like fancy wood, but many old guns are plain. When your life depends on it, reliability and accuracy trump tiger stripes. When I built one "from scratch ", I went with plain wood figuring I'd botch it. Didn't, but I'm glad I stayed plain. Good luck with your project.

December 14, 2023, 11:37 AM	#6
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	Sorry I don’t know how to make them smaller. IMG_0031 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

December 14, 2023, 12:29 PM	#9
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,462	Looks like they're good for anyone, beginner or not. That is nice wood.

December 14, 2023, 04:46 PM	#10
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	I made the toe plate, patch box end and ram rod tip to gussy it up a bit. The end piece was a piece of brass that got bent to shape and filed to fit.

December 20, 2023, 01:52 AM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	I have made some progress with it. I've got the nose cap and butt plate mated to the stock and got the ramrod slimmed down so it fits the hole in the stock. I even got the tip put on and pinned. I used a bigger nail to pin it than the one that came with it. I couldn't find a drill bit that would work with it. The pics make it look worse than it is. you can run your fingers across the joints and you won't be able to feel where wood meets metal. There are a few spots where you can barely feel it with your thumbnail on the butt plate but I'm calling it good. The next project is filing the tang down. I haven't polished any of the metal yet. I've got the whole stock sanded down with 120 and 220 grit. I've been over it twice with 220 but I keep finding tool marks. I'm sanding those spots as I find them. Once I get them all out to my satisfaction I'll go over the whole stock with 320. As you can see the tang is going to take a good bit of filing. If there's anything you see that you think needs more work say so.

December 20, 2023, 07:46 AM	#13
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,462	Looks good! Those dang tool marks seem to procreate.

December 20, 2023, 08:12 AM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	Thanks and yeah they do. I thought I had them all several times but I always find more.

December 20, 2023, 10:05 AM	#15
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	Don’t file the tang down, figure out why it isn’t pulled down by the screw. To make it easier to get the machine marks out of the wood use a weak water based stain to put a bit of color in the wood. Then use fine sand paper (320) and you’ll see the marks well.

December 20, 2023, 11:15 AM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	I think the inlet isn't deep enough. In Jim's building video it shows him filing it down so I just assumed it was a necessary thing. If I was good with hand tools I'd deepen the inlet and bend the tang down some. That's a good idea about the weak stain.

December 20, 2023, 11:18 AM	#17
Gemmer Member Join Date: November 15, 2013 Posts: 38	I agree with Oliver Sudden, don’t file the tang!

December 20, 2023, 11:32 AM	#18
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	I'll measure it and see if I can bend it down some. If I can't I'll have to file it. I have the chisels and gouges to deepen the inlet but I don't have the experience to use them.

December 20, 2023, 11:43 AM	#19
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,462	Sharp chisel, mallet, patience (and more patience). Since you are only changing the depth of the inlet, it's fairly straightforward.

December 20, 2023, 01:58 PM	#20
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	It's really not that much. The camera makes it look worse than it is. The battery in my calipers is dead so I can't tell how much difference there is but the tang is definitely thicker than the inlet is deep. There's a lot of meat on the tang so I don't see where filing a few thousandths off is going to hurt anything. The screw does pull the tang down into the inlet some without any strain but when it stops it stops solid. I think I'm going to file the bottom until I get past the screw hole so I don't mess up the countersink and then file from the top where the tang is thicker.

December 21, 2023, 05:00 AM	#21
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	Breech fit is crucial, so make sure that is right before addressing the tang. Make sure the barrel is seated to where the touch hole location is correct. If the tang needs to go deeper to make that happen, then so be it. You definitely want the barrel/breech/tang to lay into place without being pulled by the screw. If you have any doubts whatsoever reach out to Jim Kibler, he is very responsive and helpful.

December 28, 2023, 12:46 AM	#23
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	I gave up on draw filing. The file marks were worse than the tool marks so I tried some 150 grit sandpaper and it works better. Definitely not faster but better and easier on my back. This is what I started with. This is after 150 grit. I'll probably go on up to 320. The stock is done at 320. Joke on me is I couldn't figure out why the patchbox cover didn't fit flush anymore. Then it hit me the butt plate wasn't on it. D'OH

January 23, 2024, 11:41 AM	#24
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	I've been working on it a little bit. I've got the stock done except for oiling. I forgot to take pics after I put the iron nitrate on but it was a grayish green. This is after heating and neutralizing. I like the color but the figure isn't as strong as I would have liked. Maybe the oil will bring it out better. The patch box lid came out darker. It also has places that are lighter even tho I got even coverage. I think the nose cap came out really well even tho I didn't want shiny.

January 23, 2024, 01:30 PM	#25
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,462	Looks great. I wouldn't sweat the figure. In the day, many fine rifles had fairly plain wood.