Income Tax - Page 2

nate45 · June 30, 2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

He also claims that Israeli Fighter Jets, flying with Egyption markings and under orders from the CIA, attacked a U.S. Naval radio vessel so they could go to war with Egypt.

I'm not sure if the Israeli jets were wearing Egyptian markings, but there is no doubt they made an unprovoked attack on an American ship.

The USS Liberty

After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft over flights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship nine hours before the attack by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

Maybe this Alex Jones person knows more than you think.

Darren007 · June 30, 2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure if the Israeli jets were wearing Eygiptian markings, but there is no doubt they made an unprovoked attack on an American ship.

The USS Liberty

After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft over flights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship nine hours before the attack by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

Maybe this Alex Jones person knows more than you think.

Great...But wheres the proof??? The link you gave is just another conspiracy site.

In regards to the Vietnam claim, theres no proof of that either. It could have easily been a mistake I'll concede that. But at the time the captain of the ship said he thought the NVA had fired on them. He later claimed they didnt. But that doesnt mean the U.S. delibratley fired first to intentionaly start a war with Vietnam.

nate45 · June 30, 2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Great...But wheres the proof??? The link you gave is just another conspiracy site.

The proof is a matter of the national record, and the eyewitness accounts of the sailors on board.

If that link is to a 'conspiracy' site as you say, then perhaps this one to wikipedia which you have used as a source will convince you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Darren007 · June 30, 2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

The proof is a matter of the national record, and the eyewitness accounts of the sailors on board.

If that link is to a 'conspiracy' site as you say, then perhaps this one to wikipedia which you have used as a source will convince you.

When did I use wiki??? I dont use wiki...its unreliable.

First I just watched portions of Terrorstorm again. This is the new "second edition". He changed what he said. The first time he said "israeli planes with Egyption markings...now its just Israeli planes. But it was still apart of what he calls "false flag" operations carried out by the U.S.

Second, Im not claiming Israel did not attack the USS Liberty. But wheres the proof that it was done with the backing of the U.S.??? Wheres the conspiracy??? Thats what Im getting at. Could it have been mistaken identity??? The video says an israeli spy plane flew by and positivley IDd the ship before the attack...Proof???

nate45 · June 30, 2008, 10:02 PM

Darren007 I honestly do not mean to be flippant or rude when I say that there is a wealth of information about the Liberty and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, both pro and con, on the web for those who so desire to read it.

This thread is not about them or Alex Jones and his theories, it is about income tax and whether, irrespective of the fact that they may have won or lost their various court cases against the IRS, is there any legal validity to the 'tax protesters' claims.

The more I investigate it, the more I find valid points in the anti-tax peoples corner. At first glance it all seems cut and dried and in the governments favor, but I don't believe its quite that simple.

HKuser · June 30, 2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

The more I investigate it, the more I find valid points in the anti-tax peoples corner. At first glance it all seems cut and dried and in the governments favor, but I don't believe its quite that simple.

The more I investigated it, the more i found it to be cobbled together snippets of out of context quotes from cases, some not even dealing with income tax. Please don't go down the rabbit hole with the tax crazies. It really is cut and dried. It has been eventually proven to all of the protestors though they refuse to accept it, even while sitting in jail cells.

Darren007 · July 1, 2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Darren007 I honestly do not mean to be flippant or rude

No worries!!! I didnt interpret anything you wrote as flippant or rude. But your right. Although, it wasnt my intention, I did take us off the OP.

As for the tax issue, I agree with HKuser. To me, most of their arguements stem from words taken out of context and their own interpretations or meanings behind the tax code as it is written. The more I read about their arguement, the more I cant agree with them.

JB Books · July 1, 2008, 01:16 AM

and decide to become a tax protester, let us know so we can show up at the tax auction and purchase your stuff on the cheap.

Before I became an injury attorney, I flirted with the idea of becoming a tax lawyer. I breezed through my tax courses in law school. Got accepted to two great schools to pursue my LLM in tax, decided to chase ambulances instead.

I never give free advice, but here is some.....JUST PAY YOUR TAXES! FORGET ALL THE CONSPIRACY THEORY BS AND JUST PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES.

nate45 · July 1, 2008, 03:52 AM

I wanted to believe in this instance that surely the law must be on the governments side. That while possibly income taxes can be considered unjust that they were legal.

Irwin Schiff was held up by posters on this thread as a 'crackpot' and an example of the faulty thinking and misconstruing of the law that proves the government is correct.

So I carefully reviewed his claims and the actions that landed him in prison and far from being a 'crackpot,' its more likely that he is to smart for his own good and guilty mostly of daring to challenge the federal government.

Consider the letter he wrote accompanying the Zero Tax Return he filed in 2005.

He presents a strong case that the law, the Constitution and SCOTUS precedent are all on his side.

Hawg · July 1, 2008, 07:02 AM

Bottom line is he went to prison. So will anybody else that tries to get out of paying taxes. Whether it's legal or not is a moot point.

Al Norris · July 1, 2008, 07:30 AM

If I may borrow what JB Books wrote: JUST PAY YOUR TAXES! FORGET ALL THE CONSPIRACY THEORY BS AND JUST PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES.

There was a link in post #19, by divemedic, that effectively and with finality, closes down the argument before it starts.

TFL is not a conspiracy board. There are many other places that will welcome such stuff, but TFL is not one of them.

June 30, 2008, 10:02 PM	#30
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Darren007 I honestly do not mean to be flippant or rude when I say that there is a wealth of information about the Liberty and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, both pro and con, on the web for those who so desire to read it. This thread is not about them or Alex Jones and his theories, it is about income tax and whether, irrespective of the fact that they may have won or lost their various court cases against the IRS, is there any legal validity to the 'tax protesters' claims. The more I investigate it, the more I find valid points in the anti-tax peoples corner. At first glance it all seems cut and dried and in the governments favor, but I don't believe its quite that simple. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

July 1, 2008, 01:16 AM	#33
JB Books Junior member Join Date: March 11, 2008 Posts: 125	If you have any money and/or other assets... and decide to become a tax protester, let us know so we can show up at the tax auction and purchase your stuff on the cheap. Before I became an injury attorney, I flirted with the idea of becoming a tax lawyer. I breezed through my tax courses in law school. Got accepted to two great schools to pursue my LLM in tax, decided to chase ambulances instead. I never give free advice, but here is some.....JUST PAY YOUR TAXES! FORGET ALL THE CONSPIRACY THEORY BS AND JUST PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES.

July 1, 2008, 03:52 AM	#34
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	I wanted to believe in this instance that surely the law must be on the governments side. That while possibly income taxes can be considered unjust that they were legal. Irwin Schiff was held up by posters on this thread as a 'crackpot' and an example of the faulty thinking and misconstruing of the law that proves the government is correct. So I carefully reviewed his claims and the actions that landed him in prison and far from being a 'crackpot,' its more likely that he is to smart for his own good and guilty mostly of daring to challenge the federal government. Consider the letter he wrote accompanying the Zero Tax Return he filed in 2005. He presents a strong case that the law, the Constitution and SCOTUS precedent are all on his side. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

July 1, 2008, 07:02 AM	#35
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Bottom line is he went to prison. So will anybody else that tries to get out of paying taxes. Whether it's legal or not is a moot point.

July 1, 2008, 07:30 AM	#36
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	If I may borrow what JB Books wrote: JUST PAY YOUR TAXES! FORGET ALL THE CONSPIRACY THEORY* BS AND JUST PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES.* There was a link in post #19, by divemedic, that effectively and with finality, closes down the argument before it starts. TFL is not a conspiracy board. There are many other places that will welcome such stuff, but TFL is not one of them.