Constitution non-existent? Interesting

[beenthere]

From sierratimes.com on 4/5/05

Minutemen Patriots Not Vigilantes - They're Just Deceived
Nancy Levant

The Minuteman Project is trying to stop illegal immigrants from crossing the Mexican-American border. President Bush has called them vigilantes. However, President Bush knows this is untrue. He knows the border is to remain permanently open and is, in fact, to dissolve completely as will the Canadian-American border. As a lame duck President, he knows full well that the dissolving southern border will be one of his legacies as he, who like his father, has supported and furthered the cause of global governance and the North American Alliance (Canada-America-Mexico = one country).
The Minuteman Project is still operating under the old laws, the old ways, believing that illegal immigration is a crime and a danger to their country. What they do not understand is that our old laws and ways have been trumped by partnerships, commissions, NGOs, consensus, hidden legislation, and international wheeling and dealing. Our Constitution is not a functioning document and it hasn’t been for a long time. The laws of our land have changed. The elected just haven’t had the nerve to tell us.

No laws in any countries are actually valid anymore. The New World Order, with its new government, has arrived. It’s here. They simply haven’t declared it quite yet, but they will when the catastrophe hits, and it will hit.

That catastrophe will probably be a large-scale terrorist-type act. However it could also appear to be a “natural” act of devastation, but it will happen. It might happen in the United States or elsewhere on the planet. Perhaps it will happen in many areas at once, but the catastrophe will initiate a global-style martial law that will usher in the New World Order.

It’s going to be terrifying. Many, many good and innocent people are going to be collected and removed from society. Life as we have known it is going to change drastically. Our personal freedoms to travel, to move, to buy, to sell, to own, and our rights as parents to our children are all going to change.

The American people are going to suffer terribly during the first decade of the New World Order because most are going to be blind-sided by the events that will unfold. American people will have the most to lose from global governance.

The catastrophe will provide rationale for U.N. peacekeeping forces to come onto American soil to assist. However, American people will catch on to the truth of these permanent changes, and when that happens, U.N. troops will be used for controlling and arresting our people, all under the guise of assisted peace keeping.

My heart breaks for the Minuteman Project, those citizens trying to ensure that America’s laws are followed, trying to make sense of the border issue, but there is no sense to be found. The truth continues to be hidden. The truth will never be discussed with any integrity – and certainly not prior to the catastrophe. For how can any of our elected officials tell us that, for years and years, they helped to created and used bureaucratic ways and means to steal our Constitutional rights – and implemented a new governing body into our nation and the world. They will never admit it, but the results upon the citizenry are going to be devastating – massively so.

The Mexican-American border is to stay open because the U.N. has redefined and divided the new world into geographic sectors – one of which being the North American Alliance, which is Canada, America, Mexico – one country. That is the truth.

Today’s recommended websites need your time and attention. They are critically important to your understanding of what is in store for our country and your children.

Websites for Wisdoms:

http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/i...3&art_id=24041

www.penncrier.com/penncrier/pcnwompt.html

http://www.brookings.edu/gs/research...e/20040115.htm

www.g05.org/en/menu/what/objectives.php

[dasmi]

Sadly, the article speaks the truth.

[1BadF350]

Interesting? No. Rediculous? Yes. That's nothing but an Op/Ed article stating nothing more than the authors wacko nutjob opinions in pure tabloid-esque fashion. Nostradamus couldn't have said it any better.

At least that's my opinion of it. I can't believe I wasted time reading it, let alone responding to it.

[shootinstudent]

1badF350, I share your opinion.


So Bush wants good economic relations with other countries. This is the end of the world???? This article stretches every single point. I rate it on par with PETA claiming that the farming of livestock led to the holocaust.

[Sir William]

Reminds me of TEOTWAWKI. These are the people who tell us that Yellowstone is going to blow. Good fiction.

[molonlabe]

These are the people who tell us that Yellowstone is going to blow. Good fiction.

Sorry but there is firm geological evidence that there was periodic massive eruptions in the Yellowstone area 2.5 million years ago and subsequent smaller ones. Here is a link. http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3024/

It will blow. We just don't know when.

If you wish to debunk something I would not use accepted scientific research.

[Double Naught Spy]

molonlabe, nobody is suggesting the geological history isn't there to support volcanos in the past. Nobody is necessarily saying that it won't erupt again. What is being said is that the recent pronouncement of eminent catastrophe was just plain stupid. For example, you get bizarre sites like these...

http://www.earthmountainview.com/yel...ellowstone.htm
http://www.yowusa.com/Public/2003/vo...volcanism4.htm

that then give rise to SHTF discussions on just how we are preparing for the overdue eruption which apparently isn't overdue.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...=super+volcano

Will Yellowstone erupt? You claim it as fact. It may be, but we won't know until it happens. You can't actually know it as fact. Volcanology is not that well developed to know definitively about such matters.

---------------

As for the Constitution not existing, no, not in the way many of us would like it interpretted. What I find amusing in the whole mess is the fact that folks down on the border are calling themselves "minutemen" and trying to draw some sort of historical patriotic parallel to justify their actions. What they failed to note is that in the original context, Minutemen were local militia who agreed to defend their lands against a military from whose government they wanted complete separation when the Colonies were not able to put together, feed, and pay an actual fighting force. The interlopers from Mexico are not an armed military invasion, we are not trying to secede from Mexico, and the USA has plenty of military power. The parallel really is in name only.

Are they being vigilantes? Only if they operate outside of the justice system. They have the right to stop crime. They do not have the rights to imprison, sentence, or deport human beings.

[Samuel2001]

And I seen black unmarked helos too!

[LAK]

I'll be interested to see what words are substituted for "nutjobs" when the African Union, the Asian-Pacific Economic Cooperation and others as they emerge follow the way of the political model of the European Union.

It was George Herbert Walker Bush himself that spoke of their New World Order. So perhaps that makes him, and his cronies that use it, nutjobs as well. I mean only "nutjobs" have spoken of the "New World Order" - that thing that "doesn't exist" right?

Of course only a nutjob would believe a government that says, "It is inevitable - We are going to be attacked again" - while simultaneously allowing and encouraging uncontrolled cross-border traffic.

--------------------------
"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective -- a new world order -- can emerge: a new era -- freer from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice, and more secure in the quest for peace. An era in which the nations of the world, East and West, North and South, can prosper and live in harmony." - George H. W. Bush, September 11, 1990

[publius42]

<yawn>
Still a little sleepy this morning. Someone remind me later on to panic about this, OK?

[Kik'nFortiFiv]

I have often wondered about a nuclear event. I do beleive that one of these small countries that are ruled by their own nutjob ruler will actually use a nuke on us or someone else. Now if they get one on our soil, what do you think will be the U.S. response? If North Korea or Iran use one, will we respond in-kind? We obviously have more than enough to obliterate either of those countries, but will we? Will they gamble that we won't? I guess the other scenario would be that someone sneaks one in, uses it, and we don't know who got it in here. What then? I do think the day is coming when the wrong person gets one and has no qualms about killing a lot of people.

[dasmi]

Ya, it's coming. And that's why, on certain days when I think about it, I'm a little worried about living in San Diego. Prime target, basically open southern border with mexico. Not hard to sneak a nuke over in a truck.

[Garand Illusion]

Hard to respond to the nutjob ideas that started this thread -- there's just so many of them. But to those who think there's some huge, clandestine force at work at the center of the Federal government that is laying plans for our integration with the some larger state while working in complete secrecy and keeping all leaks contained, all I can say is ...

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!

That's hysterical. I've worked for the government. There are no "big" secrets that never get out. Whatever you think of our left leaning media, they are a whole lot of dedicated professionals who spend their lives trying to find the big story and get a pulitzer.

Take the pentagon papers, for instance -- a guy suddenly gets religious and decides to photocopy them and gets them out.

An operation like you're talking about would require thousands to be in the know. And they would have had to have been operating like that for years. Leaks would have happened -- someone would have gotten pissed off from lack of promotion and emailed the New York Times -- someone would have gotten religion -- someone would have just plain sold the story for money.

I worked for the government for years. Yeah, there are lots of "secret" programs going on -- but only the minute details are kept secret. The big plans always get found out.

[Garand Illusion]

In terms of the future and the "new world order" that Bush I spoke of ...

He was talking about the US as the only superpower, not of a UN controlling everything. The UN is too screwed up to control ANYTHING, much less everything.

But that said ... we will all experience a lot of changes in our lifetime.

With the new former soviet states allowed into the EU, they are quickly getting to the point where the total GDP of the EU will be greater than the United States. That doesn't bode well -- when it happens, we may find ourselves no longer a superpower.

We're also headed into a period when we're going to need a WHOLE lot of manual labor, because we're just not producing enough babies to keep up.

Take the projections of the Social Secutiry admin, for instance. They say by 2042 or thereabouts there will be something like 2 people paying social security for every retired person. Given that some people work for state pensions, that means about 4 working people for every retired person.

And that's just not enough. We're going to need nurses, restaurant workers, etc just to keep going.

If I had to make a guess and bet -- and I don't know -- I'm guessing in the future you'll see a pretty good North American economical alliance with Mexico providing labor, the united states proving technology, financing and trading strength, and Canada .... well, doing a little bit of everything.

There's also a good chance you'll see a strong US/Japan alliance, if not with China as well. Wouldn't bet as much on either of those, as it's not impossible you'll see a similar japan/china alliance to the US/Mexico alliance.

The world keeps changing. The constitution is still alive, it's just been reinterpreted and changed so much (as our forefathers intended it could be by future generations) that it's no longer the clean and straightforward doc it once was.

I am concerned about the changes, especially of large immigrant populations with no desire to change their culter and assimilate, but then many cultures from Europe didn't assimilate very quickly in some areas for the first generation or two. A few still haven't.

Gotta roll with the punches in the future. It'll be an interesting ride.

BTW -- I think what the minutemen are doing is great. If I lived in the area I'd probably be doing it too -- what better excuse to do some 4-wheeling in the desert and carry guns, two things I really like.

I just hope they don't get stupid and go beyond observing, reporting, and defending themselves if forced to.

[LAK]

Grand Illusion

That's hysterical. I've worked for the government. There are no "big" secrets that never get out.

So have I. And you're right; they are not making any secret out of what they're doing now.

[Garand Illusion]

*wink* *wink* Lak.

But seriously. To believe all the governments of the world were just waiting to setup the new world order with the combined regional governemnts described you'd have to believe ...

1. That all the world leaders, who have fought and struggled to be top dog of whatever country they dominate, are now going to give that up for the greater good of the new world order.
2. That based on the above, the first thing on all politician's mind is not their own power base, but the greater good of all the people.
3. That all the members of the US house and senate are complicit in this, and all are willing to give up their positions when the word is given.
4. That the UN has military forces capable of occupying the US. Without the US forces, what would they occupy with? Nigerian commandos? France and Britain have a decent military, but they'll be needed to pacify Europe.
5. That the US army will simply sit back and let this happen or participate. That's a million kids/officers sworn to defend the constitution. They would have to occupy their own hometowns and fight insurrections in American streets. Wouldn't happen.
6. That 250 milllion Americans with about the same number of guns can be occupied by ANYBODY.

And if you do believe all of the above ... then it's time for a nice, long rest somewhere.

Even if some small group was planning this and only a few lone posters on the internet had figured it out, what would we do? Start focusing on phantom governments and plots too long, and you start rationalizing blowing up Federal buildings and killing children in childcare faicilities. We don't need another smirking McVeigh thinking he is a hero when he is nothing but an ignorant punk murderer who failed in life and is looking for some external excuse why.

Now if any of this actually takes place ... little different story. Just for myself, I should be able to arm pretty much the whole neighborhood I live in.

No "new world order" like you described can happen in our lifetime. Anyone who thinks it can understands nothing of history or human nature or the current state of affairs.

Besides ... the Illuminati need the current division of nations so they can continue to work their evil plans and accumuate their trillions of dollars.

[LAK]

But seriously. To believe all the governments of the world were just waiting to setup the new world order with the combined regional governemnts described you'd have to believe.
1. That all the world leaders, who have fought and struggled to be top dog of whatever country they dominate, are now going to give that up for the greater good of the new world order.

"All"? How many actual "leaders" are we speaking of? The only leaders with any backbone that have stood up to these fascists are those like Augusta Pinochet and Slobodan Milosevic etc. Most of them wind up being dragged before that fascist kangaroo court in Europa, or exiled - or assassinated. Shall I name some more? Abdel-Nasser, Indira Ghandi, Yitzhak Rabin and so on.

I would hardly call the grovelling pile of tinpot puppets throughout much of Central and South America, the Middle East, much of Africa, Asia and elsewhere "leaders". Most of them have historically been all too eager to take their thirty pieces of silver through the drug and arms trades, IMF loans, "aid" etc. Once the national currency is hooked, short of a successful counter coup d'tat, those "leaders" may as well have big brass rings through their noses with leashes on them.

While other things are dominating the press and media, that ever-so-co-operative-we-hate-Bush-liberal-media, there are all kinds of interesting things happening in places like Kazakhstan, Kirghizia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Kajikistan etc right now for example.

2. That based on the above, the first thing on all politician's mind is not their own power base, but the greater good of all the people.

Uh, no. I would place money first. When they have more money than they could spend in numerous lifetimes things start to gravitate towards power.

3. That all the members of the US house and senate are complicit in this, and all are willing to give up their positions when the word is given.

Um, no again. There are some holdouts - Ron Paul has been an outspoken example, then there is Tom Tancredo and others. There are even some "democrats" no doubt. Some have come to grief; like Wellstone, another was Larry McDonald. But most are certainly complicit in one way or another. A large number have simply been gelded and have their heads deep in the trough. Then there is always blackmail.

4. That the UN has military forces capable of occupying the US. Without the US forces, what would they occupy with? Nigerian commandos? France and Britain have a decent military, but they'll be needed to pacify Europe.

We have troops in about a hundred countries or more, much in the "advisory" or "training" capacity, and have been training and equipping armies all over the globe for decades. While they have not committed huge numbers of troops in Yugoslavia, etc there have been troops form all over the world involved in vaious so-called "peacekeeping" operations. If you want to review some of their handywork on a small scale look at what U.N. troops from various countries did in Katanga between 1960 to 1963 to preserve a communist regime. China is starting to field it's own U.N. troops now - that a big enough army for you?

While the ever-much-obliging media is dwelling on other things Europa has slowly but surely been developing it's own force since 1992 (although it really has it's origins in the 1963 Elysee Treaty). Eurocorps is tagged "For the EU and NATO"; of course the NATO tail is only as long as NATO lasts. Treaties are signed, they run for periods of time, treaties can be dissolved.

If this country were devastated by another, or series of "events", the dollar took a crash dive and the economy collapsed, it wouldn't be that difficult to choke off key areas. No fool even with an army of a couple of million would try and occupy the entire United States at one time. Much easier to choke off particular areas and resources until the starving masses passively beg for water, food, and medical care. This is really old hat.

5. That the US army will simply sit back and let this happen or participate. That's a million kids/officers sworn to defend the constitution. They would have to occupy their own hometowns and fight insurrections in American streets. Wouldn't happen.

The army is about stretched to it's limits, so are Reserves and Guard. If we have another front open up with Syria, and Iran - then get hit at home - there won't be a U.S. Army of any size in the CONUS to do anything.

Again, in the face of an economic crash and an infrastructure breakdown every major city might suddenly have no food in the supermarkets, no running water and sanitation. How much of our population is contained in the 100 or 200 largest cities? Think about that.

I think all this flag waving and bravado is masking a grave vulnerability.

That 250 milllion Americans with about the same number of guns can be occupied by ANYBODY.

Ditto above. If a couple of suitcases level Dallas-Fort Worth and NY (or just one) while our entire army is off in Iraq and Iran for instance, and the economy crash dives, this country would descend rapidly into a complete police state under martial law - or chaos. It would be one or the other.

There are probably more than 250 million guns in this country - not counting the military. The problem is resources; clean water, food, medical supplies and sanitation. If just one of these is unavailable in any given area it is not going to be inhabitable for many people for very long.

Incidently, the oligarchs already have their trillions.

[shootinstudent]

LAK,

You're living a world where Pinochet and Milosevic are courageous freedom fighters. Now I understand why it is that you can't explain away the state of things without resorting to conspiracy.

You are dreaming if you think every single head of state around the world got into his position without effort or competition of his own. Even in a third world narco-state, the man in charge has done something to get there and is not likely to just stop wanting to be top dog because someone else says so.

I want to hear you name the people who are in charge of the world please. Tell me who it is you think is controlling everything, and not just by saying "oligarchs!". Who are the oligarchs that make puppets out of Bush, Blair, and everyone else except for your heroes Slobodan and Augusto?

[Mike Irwin]

The mouthbreathing is getting kind of loud...

I've said it before, I'll say it again...

Some people are only secure when they can feel paranoid.

[redhawk41]

Tell me who it is you think is controlling everything

hehe, if only it were that easy

[Don Gwinn]

Lee Iacocca, The Queen of England, George H.W. Bush, and Colonel Sanders before he went teats up!

[utaherrn]

with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face, "Oh, you're going to buy my chicken!"

Head! Pants! Now!

[Sir William]

Slight thread drift but, on topic if we consider TEOTWAWKI. China and India are creating a new order, have a full third of the worlds population and the USA is leaning heavily on their manufacturing. Could the manufacturing be Asianbased and the labour be Central Americanbased? The USA could become less than a superpower and a consumer nation.

[redhawk41]

back in the day you had what were called 'witch doctors', or 'medicine men'. they derived their 'power' from knowledge that the 'common' folk didn't possess. for example, knowledge of solar and lunar eclipses.

when a known (to the medicine man, of course) solar or lunar eclipse was coming, he could start conjouring up stuff and telling the commons to submit or else. when the eclipse came, WHOA BOY!! you could get some people really freaked out.

and guess what, they would believe that it was the spells and conjourings of the medicine man. of course once people became educated, this kind of 'magic' no longer worked.

to keep this short, shootinstudent, to answer your question "who it is you think is controlling everything", the answer is those who know more than we do. WAY more. like, ancient mysteries and stuff like that. the stuff that built the Great Pyramid. anyway ...

Sir William, i believe you may be on to something there. the middle class are to 'smart' to fall for medicine man 'magic', so we have a deliberate dumbing down of the masses, mainly through television. and what is television chock full of? commercials. that get you to buy stuff. stuff made in china and/or india. like a good little consumer.

[Garand Illusion]

ROFLMAO

Oh yeah ... this is fun stuff here. People just sure that some "shadowy force" that knows about how the pyramids were built is actually controlling everything. Sounds to me like you are all on a search for God. Head to a church, gentlemen, and at least you'll learn a faith in a greater power that doesn't drive you to start hoarding fertilizer and ammo.

But what the heck ... I love to play ... since so many easy ones were set up for me I might as well whack away at them with a little common sense:

(about world leaders) Uh, no. I would place money first. When they have more money than they could spend in numerous lifetimes things start to gravitate towards power.

I've known a number of people working in politics at different levels. And believe me -- it ain't the money that gets them there; it's the feeling of being in the know and being in charge. It's fairly easy for an educated man to make lots of $$ in this country; the kinds of guys who are big enough players to become senators could also be multi-million dollar a year CEO's. But instad they satisfy themselves with only a small fortune and being the person constantly on camera to the American people and helping to control the nation. $$ is nice, but power is better.

Perhaps you should get involved in the poliitical process. Most of our senators and presidents started out at the grass roots level working for their parties and taking lower positions, like in state legistlatures. Not a lot of $$ there, and it hurts your career (known a few of those personally).

If this country were devastated by another, or series of "events", the dollar took a crash dive and the economy collapsed, it wouldn't be that difficult to choke off key areas. No fool even with an army of a couple of million would try and occupy the entire United States at one time. Much easier to choke off particular areas and resources until the starving masses passively beg for water, food, and medical care. This is really old hat.

Obviously not impossible -- but very difficult. And not a sure sign of success. How long did the Russians hold out at Stalingrad? How many cities in the US were under siege for long periods of time and attempted to starve out in the civil war? You can't just cut off water for a couple of days and call a people tamed. It takes months, and if the people are resolute and dig in, even more. And will the rest of the world/US just sit by while this happens? Will commanders overseas just watch instead of disengaging and turning their weapons against the real enemy?

Sorry, man -- can't happen.

About senators complicit with the new world order ...Um, no again. There are some holdouts - Ron Paul has been an outspoken example, then there is Tom Tancredo and others. There are even some "democrats" no doubt. Some have come to grief; like Wellstone, another was Larry McDonald. But most are certainly complicit in one way or another. A large number have simply been gelded and have their heads deep in the trough. Then there is always blackmail

Um ... no again. And still no. And still ignorant.

I know about Tom Tancredo, he's one of my senators. Never has he spoken out against any plan to turn the US into a slave state to the UN. And he would if he knew about it, because that's the kind of guy he is.

He's simply taken a strong stand against a lot of self righteous indignation against illegals getting benefits and recognition in Colorado. He's not a paranoid delusionist; just a man trying to support the laws of the US.

Again, in the face of an economic crash and an infrastructure breakdown every major city might suddenly have no food in the supermarkets, no running water and sanitation. How much of our population is contained in the 100 or 200 largest cities? Think about that.

Yup ... and on a warm sunny day there could be a storm brewing. Or not. But I don't spend all my sunny days in the tornado shelter just in case.

Theres a lot of food in this country, and to stop the people in the largest cities from going to get it (remember, they have lots of trucks, food, guns and organization) it would take a sizable force. Again ... what UN group would airlift it in? What army would seize the farmland and ranches?

Seriously, guy ... look for some help. Or just live in fear and slowly get old as nothing really changes.

Well ... there's always change, and sometimes we don't like it. But it's inevitable whether we like it or not.

All we can do is deal with what we know and try to make the world as best as possible. And if the SHTF ... the American people are not the lazy, cowardly people that so many would make us out to be. Ask the Germans or the Taliban. We'll deal with what happens. We can be as strong or stronger than any nation on Earth, and there are a whole lot of us with a lot of guns, money and resources.