H110 downloading

[1972RedNeck]

I use a lot of H110 as I like loads on the warmer end of things and it has always worked well for me. I have always been curious about the warnings of not downloading by more than "x"% of the max charge though.

From looking at my loading manuals, this seems like a poor standard to go by. For example, max load for H110 according to my Hornady manual for 454 Casull with a 300 gr bullet is 31.4gr (32.3 for 296).

The same manual lists the minimum load for ruger only 45 colt with the same bullet as 17.9 gr of 296.

Case overall length is less than .1" different.

I guess my question is, is it a minimum pressure that H110 needs to burn correctly or a minimum percentage of case capacity?

[jetinteriorguy]

You are seeing such drastic differences due to allowable pressures in the two cartridges. 455 Casull is a much higher pressure cartridge than a 45 Colt.

[1972RedNeck]

I agree, but I read where people say don't go below 97% of max, or 90% of max, or whatever.

In 454 Casull, you could download a lot more. In 357 mag, that would be a bad idea.

So instead of basing it off of a max load that varies in pressure from cartridge to cartridge, wouldn't it be better to give it a minimum pressure and/or percentage of case capacity?

[44 AMP]

I guess my question is, is it a minimum pressure that H110 needs to burn correctly or a minimum percentage of case capacity?

I don't know if its even a one or the other thing. What I do know is that when you go "x" below listed minimum loads with that powder, it is observed that ignition and burn become erratic. Some rounds seem to shoot normally, many show incomplete powder burn (in differing amounts) and a few actually produce huge pressure spikes.

I don't know (or really care) what the minimum that H110 needs to run properly, but when it is listed in the manuals to "do not reduce below.." then simply don't do it.

If you want something less than H110's listed starting load performance, simply use a different powder, one better suited to the performance range you want.

Unique comes to mind...

[tangolima]

Is it x% below min or max? Different posts seem to be talking about different things.

Looking at published loads, very often difference between min and max is around 10%. It is prudent to stay within that range, and even so the loader needs to remain vigilant on pressure signs. However, although imprudent, it is not against any law to ventured outside. You are on your own and you really need to know what you are doing.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[GeauxTide]

Completely concur with 44AMP's view. In my own loading experience, I use Unique for loads to 1000fps in 357, 41, 44Spl, Mag, and 45 Colt. If I want more power, H-110 or Lil'Gun get the nod.

[mehavey]

Do not download H110/W296 below 90% of case capacity under the bullet

[Nick_C_S]

I've been loading H-110/W296 for 357 and 44 mag since 1985. This propellant is a one-trick pony. You load it up good and stout and it delivers very clean, consistent, high velocity ammo. If you don't load it up good n stout, this happens:

it is observed that ignition and burn become erratic.

This is especially true with 357 Magnum (I only load 158's). I have gotten away with some slight downloading with 240 grain 44 Mag ammo. I have no experience with 454 Casull. But as 44 AMP also stated, I would recommend this:

If you want something less than H110's listed starting load performance, simply use a different powder, one better suited to the performance range you want.

This is why I like 2400 quite a bit these days. Not only is it a bit faster than H-110/W296 to begin with, it also lends itself to being de-tuned and still run consistently. If you want to de-tune even further, I'd recommend Power Pistol.

[lugerstew]

Yes, I totally agree, don't download H110, I had a bad day at the range one time with a revolver, H110, minimum load, standard primers, 357 magnum and 125g hollow points.
I started getting several squids and had to pound them out of the barrel at the range, I felt like an idiot.
DONT DOWNLOAD H110,,,, MY EXPERIENCES.

[Unclenick]

I use a lot of H110 as I like loads on the warmer end of things and it has always worked well for me. I have always been curious about the warnings of not downloading by more than "x"% of the max charge though.

It's much more familiar in rifle loads where you see recommendations to keep to higher loading densities for best consistency. Homer Powley's old slide rule load computer only worked with loading densities of 85% and higher for this reason. H110 is just a case of the powder getting slow enough that some rifle loading principals start to apply to revolver cartridges.

From looking at my loading manuals, this seems like a poor standard to go by. For example, max load for H110 according to my Hornady manual for 454 Casull with a 300 gr bullet is 31.4gr (32.3 for 296).

That charge weight difference resulted from the burn rate difference between two lots of powder. ±3% lot-to-lot variation is common, and manual authors who don't work for the powder supplier and don't have access to reference or exemplar powder lots have to buy it off the shelf like anybody else. Sierra says people often ask them why certain powders that are popular with a particular cartridge and bullet weight didn't make it into Sierra's manual. A common reason is there just wasnt any available to buy at the time that cartridge came up in the load development rotation. So those are off-the shelf powder lots, and the fact they might have got one at the slow end is one of the reasons loads have to be worked up toward maximum and the maximum cannot be taken as gospel for the particular lot you buy.

The same manual lists the minimum load for ruger only 45 colt with the same bullet as 17.9 gr of 296.

Case overall length is less than .1" different.

Heavy bullet weight is a big help there. Light bullets are much more prone to scoot down the barrel too quickly for the powder to make gas fast enough to properly pressurize the rapidly expanding volume behind the bullet. Expansion just gets too quick. A heavy bullet's inertia can keep it from moving out so quickly that this causes a problem.

I guess my question is, is it a minimum pressure that H110 needs to burn correctly or a minimum percentage of case capacity?

Directly, it's pressure that matters. But indirectly, load density affects start pressure. Grains take up space, so when you have low loading density, you have a lot more air volume, so the primer produces lower initial pressure. Good start pressure is essential for the slow powders, and this is one reason for magnum primers (they make more gas) and it is also why you see small rifle primer pockets in 460 S&W. Too much case capacity demands more initial pressurization (plus, higher pressure needs heavier primer cups).

[rc]

If you want to download 454, use a full power load of Unique!

[44 AMP]

The other thing commonly done with the slower/slowest pistol powders is using a heavy crimp. This isn't done JUST to keep the bullets in place during recoil, but also to keep the bullet in the case just a little longer, allowing the pressure to get a better start building up before bullet movement changes the volume.

Here's another tip, when working with light end slow powder loads, keep an eye out for "yellow sand" in your gun. This is incomplete powder combustion. IF it shows up, discontinue using that load.

[RKG]

Ditto 44AMP and Nick C S, adding only A9 as an additional alternative powder to H110/Wind296. I have had really good results with A9 in both .357 hot loads and .32 Fed. Mag.