Please explain... .22 VS 9mm

[akfedor7]

Ok guys, just wondering what I'm missing here...

I've recently been looking at a lot of the .22lr military style guns that are coming out. The GSG MP5 lookalikes have caught my eye because I have always liked the MP5, yet cant afford one. I just cant bring myself to get a rimfire though.

But it makes wonder why the GSGs are so cheap, while an off brand MP5 in 9mm is still pretty pricey.

you can get an AR in .22 by various companies for about $600. While you can find them in 9mm for about 50% more.

Yet the GSG guns are about $500, while a similar 9mm will cost at least $1500

Why does the HK style cost 3 or 4 times as much to go from .22 to 9mm??

[the rifleer]

how else are they going to sell it? no one is going to pay $1000 for a .22. not only that, but in sure it costs less to build one. A .22 probably isnt going to have someone's life depending on it, so they probably don't try to make it as reliable or as precisely as the full size one.

[MTT TL]

no one is going to pay $1000 for a .22.

Well, maybe not that kind of .22. There are many, many .22s in the 1K+ range.

Why does the HK style cost 3 or 4 times as much to go from .22 to 9mm??

The 9mm is a completely different round, larger, more powerful and requires a bigger and heavier gun. It is also geared towards LEO/MIL and must be made extra rugged and durable.

[troy_mclure]

you also rarely see chrome lined barrels in .22rf guns.

[Jim Watson]

The .22 lookalikes you see now are mechanically much simpler than the centerfires and made out of much cheaper materials. You can mold pot metal and plastic for a lot less money than you can machine or even stamp or cast steel.

[goodspeed(TPF)]

You can mold pot metal and plastic for a lot less money than you can machine or even stamp or cast steel.

What he said.

[akfedor7]

Thanks for the input guys. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I understand totally that centerfires need to be sturdier and are generally more expensive

I was just curious why the MP5 style rifles are out of proportion when compared to any other guns that have 9mm and .22lr

Most guns are no more than twice the price for the 9mm.
Examples:

Sig Pistols
Walther pistols
AR Rifles by various companies
Various Revolvers by various companies
Various Lever Rifles by various companies

All of these are about twice the price for 9mm, or less.

So my question is why are MP5 rifles 4 times more expensive for the 9mm version?

[TriggerJunky]

My take on it is the simple fact that German engineering has quite a reputation for being second to none. H&K, Sig... a couple of names that have a big foot in the door with the military for their design expertise.

[22-rimfire]

Mostly because it is made by H&K. $$$ They have strong sales in the law enforcement community. Probably don't need civilian sales for their bottom line.

I had a Uzi carbine in 9mm. It was cool and worked very well. BUT, I couldn't hit much of anything smaller than a paper plate past 25 yds which is pistol range for me. So, I dumped it. They are very expensive guns now. Not cheap when I bought it either, but money was not a huge factor at the time for me.

[gun addict]

because it's H&K, and we suck, and they hate us

oh and trigger, SIG is Swiss, SIG-Sauer is Swiss-German

[Willie D]

Have you ever seen a GSG without the 'silencer'? Got to be the wimpiest barrel I've ever seen.

[NWCP]

The HK MP5 is a select fire SBR. It costs a bunch. Any MP5 SA clones cost more than the .22LR GSG-5 because in order to produce them a licensing fee has to be paid to the patent holder, HK. The company that makes the GSG-5 has been taken to court by HK for patent infringement. I'm not sure what the settlement is, but one has been made the last I read about it.

[Tom Servo]

no one is going to pay $1000 for a .22.

I have. Twice.

[SeekHer]

22-rimfire -- I had a Uzi carbine in 9mm. It was cool and worked very well. BUT, I couldn't hit much of anything smaller than a paper plate past 25 yds which is pistol range for me.

In other words, exactly what it was designed to do! CQB, room clearing with full auto (not semi) in a handy, easily carried gun...It never was or ever will be a target gun or at anything beyond pistol ranges because it's firing a pistol cartridge...You want 200 yard accuracy, get a Galil...

OP, the difference is in the metal used and the stresses that it's subjected to...a 9mm is a far more powerful, pressure wise, then a .22 LR is...Why some older guns are warned to use light loads in as they can't take the stress of modern high power loads...

the rifleer -- no one is going to pay $1000 for a .22. not only that, but in sure it costs less to build one. A .22 probably isn't going to have someone's life depending on it, so they probably don't try to make it as reliable or as precisely as the full size one.

As pointed out many have and will pay more then $1,000 for a rimfire rifle...any of the Anschutz target guns I have are over $2,000, Cooper, Volquartsen, Kimber Super America, Weatherby XXll etc...

But, you very correct in that no one would pay $1K for this type of rimfire rifle but unfortunately, far too many people think that the lowly .22 LR is an "effective" man stopper and big game hunting round so they may think that this is like the military .22(3) and feel safe...

[WoofersInc]

how else are they going to sell it? no one is going to pay $1000 for a .22

Tell that to all those guys with that much and more into their custom 10/22's

[carguychris]

Any MP5 SA clones cost more than the .22LR GSG-5 because in order to produce them a licensing fee has to be paid to the patent holder, HK. The company that makes the GSG-5 has been taken to court by HK for patent infringement.

FWIW the lawsuit was over trademark and trade dress infringement, not patent infringement. The problem was not necessarily that the GSG-5 resembled the MP5 or functioned like one (which it doesn't); selling knockoff firearms is not necessarily problematic in itself, as demonstrated by the oodles of AR, 1911, AK, Winchester lever-rifle, and K/L/N frame S&W clones on the US market. The problem was that ATI, the company selling the GSG-5, blatantly advertised the fact that the GSG was similar to the MP5, rather than keeping it vague.

Exhibit "A" was a widely-published advertisement featuring an attractive young woman holding two GSG pistols in crossed arms in front of her other, um, guns. The advertisement openly claimed that the GSG-5 was an "MP5K clone".

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-of-the-gsg-5/

I'm not sure what the settlement is, but one has been made the last I read about it.

The GSG-5 has been withdrawn from the US market, although dealers can still sell what they already have in stock. ATI promises that a "compliant" GSG-5 is coming down the pipeline, but AFAIK nobody outside the company has seen it yet.

Mostly because it is made by H&K. $$$ They have strong sales in the law enforcement community. Probably don't need civilian sales for their bottom line.

+1, especially since the market for 9mm semi-auto carbines is limited, as shown by the discontinuation of the Ruger PC9 and Marlin Camp 9. I suspect that the market is even more limited as the pricetag crosses into 4 figures.

OTOH if you'd like a 9mm SMG knockoff and don't mind something a little more old-fashioned, there's always the Centerfire Systems Suomi KP-31 and the CIA Sterling, both of which sell for under $600.

[Tom Servo]

Tell that to all those guys with that much and more into their custom 10/22's

Or a S&W 41

One other thing. If you're importing receivers, it's likely easier to claim "sporting purposes" if the weapon is a rimfire rather than a service caliber.