Do you really feel safe?

[Mike P. Wagner]

"yes, I realize they are less than ideal,"

As though 45 ACP is ideal, and the other ones are less than ideal?

I think you need to go shoot a WWII battle rifle. It was an eye opener for me - maybe a hunting rifle in a caliber intended to kill man sized beasts would have the same effect.

All (normal) pistol rounds are piss poor - we have endless debates here about which are less piss poor than others. I know a 45 opens a whole several feet wide in body, where a little 38 opens a hole only a fraction of an inch wide (ballistics args on TFL are the only

[bennnn]

I'm sorry this offended you.

Or, perhaps you want to deny they're .30 caliber?

I wasn't looking to join the war man...

Hey,,,it's me... I know what .30 means.... Just a phrase dude....


An SKS delivers a punch similar to a .38 special,, It's just able to deliver it at a longer range...

Both .30 cal..... No problem...

[Lurper]

PM: Check your PM's.
As to the demonstration, I can film it. Even from my carry rig. I will point out though that you did change the criteria. This is your original challenge:

You pick the pistol and the holster you will use.

Even I couldn't resist a setup like that. But, I can and will demonstrate from my carry rigs. Also, keep in mind exactly what I said. If they are within arms reach, the technique is easy. If they are out of reach it is much more difficult. I would also venture a guess that you forgot about the part where I pointed out that you don't just stand there and draw. As I stated, there are several variations on the technique, all involve doing something else while drawing. I laid out how you can test the technique for yourself (well, with the help of a friend). We tested and developed the technique by (NOW DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME) using a #2 pencil dropped down the barrel of a 1911. Everyone who tried the technique successfully evaded being "shot". How you follow up the technique is up to you, you can use disarming techniques, strikes or draw and fire. But, it can and has been done.

As far as ammo goes, my sponsors paid for my ammo one sponsor alone gave me $1000.00/month in components. I have a Dillon 1050, it will load around 1100 rnds in an hour. I worked 3-11, so I would wake up at 6, eat, load for half an hour or so, walk out the back door to the range, shoot 500 rounds then shower and go to work.

In the military, I served in Co. C, 2/502nd Inf. 101st ABN and Co. F 425Inf (LRRP).

Here is a thread I mentioned on another forum where the poster checked my references. He had the decency to respect others right to privacy.
http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/...p?t=127&page=4
Can we please get back to the topic now?

[Lurper]

Jesus, do you guys even read the previous posts before you write anything?

As though 45 ACP is ideal, and the other ones are less than ideal?

For the 7th time now, it is not about caliber or which caliber is ideal. It is based on Fackler et al. conclusions that calibers less powerful than 9mm are substandard based on historical evidence, shooting data and lab tests. I DID NOT CREATE THE DATA NOR DID I DECIDE WHICH CALIBERS ARE SUBSTANDARD! Please do us all a courtesy and read before launching an attack.

I feel perfectly comfortable carrying it. I dont think those tests you keep spouting off about are relevent. they were made during a time when bullet tech sucked. Back then bigger was better. Not Now, now we have better bullet construction and better powder.

At this point I would've probably appreciated the nasty response. You make some good points about improved bullet design. However Fackler and the FBI tests are modern and up to date. Both are ongoing projects. I agree, I am being too harsh on the .38 spl. With the proper bullet and +p+ load it is probably in the ballpark. But as I pointed out, I am not the one who decided that.

Your personal attack aside, I have stated many times now that it isn't about what I carry nor anyone else carries. The question was about why you carry what you carry if it falls in to the category of substandard? I in no way endorsed any caliber, bullet, etc. for carry. Nor did I disparage anyone who carries those calibers, nor the calibers themselves. I also did not say that anyone who is not an expert is not qualified to comment and I do have proof of everything I said I can and have done. Out of respect for people's privacy, I choose who and when to share it. However, as I pointed out, it aint that hard to find.

COULD YOU PLEASE CONTAIN YOURSELVES TO JUST ANSWERING THE QUESTION WITHOUT BLAMING ME FOR THE TESTS OR ANYTHING I DID NOT DIRECTLY SAY OR DO?

I think it may be getting close to closing time for this one.

[rantingredneck]

I've so far mostly stayed out of this one save my quip earlier about no one volunteering to take six in the chest from my mousegun........

I feel the need at this point to make an observation about this thread and the direction it's taken and WHY it's taken that direction......

Lurper, I do not doubt your qualifications, nor am I an "expert" in firearms qualified to question your assertions. As a mental health professional with many years of experience, though, I feel competent in assessing certain personality traits. What follows is my assessment.

You complain about others attacking you rather than answering your question, however you set the question up initially in a way that would spark an argument and those attacks. In subsequent posts in answer to other posters' reasoned responses as to why they carry what they carry, you further disparaged their choices and touted your expertise in a way that by your own admission made you come across as a "pr*ck". It seems as if you have received in this thread exactly that for which you asked.

As the old saying goes, don't shoot the messenger..........

[cheygriz]

This thread has become ludicrous, and I would like to ask the moderator to close it.

[rantingredneck]

Seconded..........

[Lurper]

Rantingredneck:
I actually enjoyed your earlier quip. However, I don't recall any disparaging remarks I made about any caliber, or anyone's choice to carry said caliber. In fact I went out of my way to not. Granted, the rhetorical setting is somewhat controversial, but I didn't want a million "the .22 in my pocket is better than the .45 on my table" answers. I will admit that I returned fire rather than ignore the personal attacks until too late, but I'm human.
I also agree that nothing useful can probably be gained from further postings.

[NDN-MAN]

I don't trust most of the studys. They do not give enough data on the events recorded. Did the person involved stop when shot, or shot at? Did they fall down, ( Take a bullet ) give up or run away? We don"t get those stats do we.
Once while walking by a river a bulldog ran at me. I shot into the ground with a 22 cal. pistol. The bulldog running at me, turned and ran away. Was this a one shot stop?? We don't get enough info from the "studys" to make a valid case for or agianst this, as a one shot stop.

If you like FBI stats please read this. ( One-Shot Drops Surviving the Myth )
FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin October-2004 page 21

[JohnKSa]

"This thread has become ludicrous, and I would like to ask the moderator to close it."
"Seconded.........."
"I also agree that nothing useful can probably be gained from further postings."


Well, apparently a consensus has been reached--that this thread's usefulness is spent...

[JohnKSa]

Originally Posted by Powderman

You know what?

I re-read my postings in this thread, and have reached a conclusion:

Sometimes, when we (as human beings) see something or read something that we have not (or CAN not) achieve ourselves, we have a disturbing tendency to shoot the messenger and burn the wagon.

I read my postings, and remembered a distinct time when people used to get after ME, simply because some of the things I had accomplished were far beyond their comprehension.

These things include:
The ability to read a newspaper, out loud, coherently and with full comprehension at age 4;

Graduating from high school AND business college by age 15, and (perhaps more relative to this post)

The ability to shoot a handgun into a tighter group than most people can achieve with a sandbagged rest.

When we become close-minded, we cease to learn; when we cease learning, we cease improvement; when we cease improvement, we cease understanding, and when we cease understanding, we stop being decent human beings.

Just because someone does something we cannot fathom, does not mean it CANNOT be done. Nor does it mean that it has not been done.

My apologies to Lurper for my confrontational and immature posts.

(But, I'd still like to shoot with you. )

Powderman sent this public apology to me in a PM and requested that I post it to this thread.