.38 Spcl Swaged HBWC

[Mike38]

I'm fairly new to reloading Hollow base wad cutters. I started off with .32 S&W Long in a semi auto target pistol. I load these about 0.020 proud of the case mouth because they feed better, Speer 98 grain bullets and 1.4 grains of WST powder. Everything was working great, so I moved on to my .38 Spcl revolvers. I also loaded these 0.020 proud of the case mouth, just because. Speer 148 grain bullets and 2.0 grains of WST. Surprisingly accurate in both my Taurus and S&W revolvers. I'm guessing around 550fps. Very little leading in the Taurus and near zero leading in the S&W.

I switched to Precision Delta bullets for the .38 simply because they were way less costly than Speer. But this is where the trouble began. Precision Delta uses what they call "Match Lube". It is very thin, and you can hardly tell there is any lube at all. Now the Taurus leads badly. So bad that after 40-50 shots, it starts key holing at 15 yards. The S&W leads, but not as bad as the Taurus. I contacted Precision Delta and they gave me the canned answer of staying below 700fps, and how some revolvers have a less than perfect forcing cone and can lead with soft swagged bullets.

My question is this. Since I am only pushing these bullets at around 550fps, is it possible the pressure is not expanding the bullet's hollow base and I'm not getting a good seal, then the hot gasses are passing the bullet and cutting the lead giving me this leading problem? I loaded 50 rounds of these bullets with 2.5 grains of WST, and flush with the case mouth, which should bump the velocity up close to 650fps. This may be enough pressure to expand the hollow base and seal things better, I hope? I will find out this coming Friday evening. Am I on the right track, or am I chasing my tail? Your thoughts please. Thank you.

[FITASC]

I'm guessing around 550fps

Why are you guessing that?

I use 2.7 of Bullseye and over a chrono, they are faster than that

[Unclenick]

You may be on the right track. I don't know exactly how the hardness of the two bullet alloys compares, but if the PDs are just a little harder, that might explain the different performance.

[Mike38]

FITASC, I'm using Hodgdon web site for my guesses at velocity. They say .2.5 grains of WST will give 700fps with a 7 inch barrel. I have 4 inch barrels and guessing 650fps. With my original load of 2.0 grains of WST, I'm guessing 550fps.

[Unclenick]

Hodgdon uses the 7.71" SAAMI Velocity and Pressure barrel for its testing. This is a barrel that mimics a single-shot or semi-auto pistol barrel, so the measurement is from the breech end to the muzzle, which includes the length of the chamber. A revolver barrel measurement starts at the back of the forcing cone, plus there is a barrel/cylinder gap that loses some pressure, and there is some bullet jump to the forcing cone, which could drop some considerable pressure with a jacketed bullet, but which you hope expansion of the skirt of the hollow base bullet will block. So, length-wise, the Hodgdon test barrel is equivalent to a 6.079" revolver barrel with no barrel/cylinder gap.

You didn't say what your revolver barrel lengths were, so I can't speculate on likely velocities for you, but if they were 6.079", GRT expects something like an 8.5% loss in velocity as compared to the barrel Hodgdon used, plus gap loss, so something like 538 fps from a revolver barrel that length.

[Mike38]

Well, it worked. By increasing powder charge of WST from 2.0 to 2.5 there is considerably less leading with these Precision Delta wadcutter bullets. The Precision Delta bullets must be a little harder than the Speer, and it takes a bit more pressure to get the bullet skirt expansion needed. Overall, I prefer the Speer bullets, but the price and the spotty availability of the Speer is making me search for less expensive options.

[Recycled bullet]

I wonder if the brass is swaging the bullet diameter which you have now corrected somewhat by increasing the pressure and powder charge. What kind of expander are you using?

I have recently started using the noe m style expanders that directly plug into the Lee Universal expander die and am loading cast bullets most recently into a big batch of 357 Magnum and light 300 BLK handloads. The noe dies made assembly easier and now I have completely no leading in 357 magnum, using book maximum charges of h110 with my cast bullets.

[Sevens]

If you were truly getting 550 fps (yes I see you bumped the charge...) then you are setting yourself up for a serious problem when one of them decides to NOT exit the barrel.

The chance of this is, in my opinion and experience, high. If you shoot slowly and methodically and if you shoot somewhere that does not have multiple others also shooting at the same time, you will likely catch it when you have a stuck bullet... if you shoot the next round behind it you will bulge the barrel and likely ruin the revolver.

The reason I constantly warn folks of s-l-o-w bullets in revolvers is due to the flash gap. Because it's not a sealed pipe (like a semiauto), this flash gap is a bleed valve for much needed pressure. If/when a bullet that is already too slow (generally) decides to slow down more than all the ones before it (multiple reasons this could happen) then it will grind to a halt when the pressure (that you don't have enough of) decides to take the path of least resistance and fart out the cylinder gap.

It's a recipe for failure that can easily lead to disaster.

[44 AMP]

Because it's not a sealed pipe (like a semiauto), this flash gap is a bleed valve for much needed pressure.

Which is only a concern when your pressure is marginal to start with, which it is when shooting wadcutters with very light charges.

The main factors in bore leading are the relationships between bullet alloy, velocity, and bullet fit in the bore. When these things are not in proper balance, heavy leading is the usual result.

The hollow base "skirt" of the HB wadcutter allows for a good gas seal, and decent (or better) accuracy in different diameter bores. Too a point, of course.

TO make this work, the bullet has to be pushed with enough pressure to ensure the HB expands and seals the bore properly.

The very lightest loads may not do this. Or they may do it with bullet A, but not bullet B.

Each gun, each bullet (and possibly each batch of bullets) and their loads are potentially different combinations of factors. When dealing with the very lightest load levels there is no "this works with everything". It is very much dependent on the specific individual factors and their relationships with each other.