What is MATCH GRADE?

Wild Bill Bucks · June 27, 2006, 10:21 AM

I bought some Winchester Supreme, in .308, and taking 3 bullets from the brass discovered, there were powder grain differences in between every one of them.

Does Match grade mean a better loaded round, or is it the same old factory ammo as all the other rounds they load, with a fancier bullet on top?

Scorch · June 27, 2006, 12:40 PM

Bill-
I thought Match ammo was supposed to be loaded to a certain standard of accuracy. How does it shoot?

Wild Bill Bucks · June 27, 2006, 12:47 PM

Scorch,

My handloads in this rifle will shoot clover leaves at 100 yards, but with the Winchester Supreme, it shoots about 1 1/4" groups. Thats the reason I took the bullets out and weighed the powder. Wasn't much difference in the grains but they vary about 1/2 grains apart. That's enough to open the group up considerably. I thought, as you did, that match grade ammo was supposed to be loaded to a higher standard, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's not just a ploy to charge us more money.

Wild Bill Bucks · June 27, 2006, 12:47 PM

Scorch,

My handloads in this rifle will shoot clover leaves at 100 yards, but with the Winchester Supreme, it shoots about 1 1/4" groups. Thats the reason I took the bullets out and weighed the powder. Wasn't much difference in the grains but they vary about 1/2 grains apart. That's enough to open the group up considerably. I thought, as you did, that match grade ammo was supposed to be loaded to a higher standard, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's not just a ploy to charge us more money.

SORRY BOUT THE DOUBLE POST.

Scorch · June 27, 2006, 12:55 PM

Bill-
If it doesn't shoot like match ammo, it ain't match ammo. I would say it's a clever marketing ploy to sell more ammo to unsuspecting rubes. No offense intended.

FirstFreedom · June 27, 2006, 01:50 PM

Well, I don't think you should expect something to be "match" grade, when it's not marked "match grade" - it says "Supreme" for a reason - it does not say "Match", "Supreme Match", or "Match Supreme". "Supreme" is a vague marketing ploy. If it said match and had such inconsistencies, I'd ask for my money back. I thknk that "Supreme" implies "premium hunting ammo".

Wild Bill Bucks · June 27, 2006, 03:00 PM

FF,

Your right, as usual, the box does not say Match anywhere. I just ASSUMED it was.

I wouldn't want to miss a chance at showing just how stupid I really am.

Does Match Grade actually mean it is hand loaded ?

Scorch · June 27, 2006, 03:22 PM

No, match grade means it is loaded using premium components to higher standards of consistency and low shot-to-shot variation. Hopefully it also means they have properly selected the powder for good performance in a variety of firearms. Think Lake City Arsenal 30-06 Match or 7.62 Match: you could do a little better, but it would be hard.

guntotin_fool · June 27, 2006, 11:20 PM

Supreme means it is the best components available for down game animals. meaning better bullets. more reliable bullets. a 1 1/4 group rifle will work just fine on game animals. call it minute of deer.

And quite frankly No Major manufacturer handloads ANYTHING. just too time consuming. Was able to get a tour of olin once many years ago. They were loading some 7.62 match that day for the military. That machine was making a box every ten seconds or so...the machine next to it was making 300 win mags. that was a box every 3 or 4 seconds. great big thing goingthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthump thumpthumpthumpthumpthump. Every thump was a new round. Pretty darn cool, rounds were running down the way like those clips of beers running by in the commercials.

I think Match is just used to signify top quality and most consistent.

30Cal · June 28, 2006, 11:21 AM

"Match" infers that it has a match-grade bullet on top. It should shoot pretty well in any match rifle.

You ought to be able to beat it easily with handloads.

BlueTrain · June 28, 2006, 11:39 AM

You have to be careful with your handloads in that you may not necessarily be achieving what you most want to achieve. You may be achieving what you think you want but that may not be what you should be trying for. For example, if you developing a bench rest target load, then only groups (or accuracy) counts. But if you are producing loads for hunting purposes, then the best groups may have more than you need for practical purposes, if you had to give up something else to get it, such as velocity. If you had to give up velocity to achieve a tighter group on paper, from a rest, then you were giving up power and that usually isn't a good thing. Of course, most people don't have the means to measure velocity.

In my case, I'm happy to have the holes appear anywhere on the paper anymore.

June 27, 2006, 10:21 AM	#1
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	What is MATCH GRADE? I bought some Winchester Supreme, in .308, and taking 3 bullets from the brass discovered, there were powder grain differences in between every one of them. Does Match grade mean a better loaded round, or is it the same old factory ammo as all the other rounds they load, with a fancier bullet on top?

June 27, 2006, 12:40 PM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Bill- I thought Match ammo was supposed to be loaded to a certain standard of accuracy. How does it shoot? __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

June 27, 2006, 12:55 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Bill- If it doesn't shoot like match ammo, it ain't match ammo. I would say it's a clever marketing ploy to sell more ammo to unsuspecting rubes. No offense intended. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

June 27, 2006, 03:22 PM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	No, match grade means it is loaded using premium components to higher standards of consistency and low shot-to-shot variation. Hopefully it also means they have properly selected the powder for good performance in a variety of firearms. Think Lake City Arsenal 30-06 Match or 7.62 Match: you could do a little better, but it would be hard. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

June 28, 2006, 11:39 AM	#11
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	You have to be careful with your handloads in that you may not necessarily be achieving what you most want to achieve. You may be achieving what you think you want but that may not be what you should be trying for. For example, if you developing a bench rest target load, then only groups (or accuracy) counts. But if you are producing loads for hunting purposes, then the best groups may have more than you need for practical purposes, if you had to give up something else to get it, such as velocity. If you had to give up velocity to achieve a tighter group on paper, from a rest, then you were giving up power and that usually isn't a good thing. Of course, most people don't have the means to measure velocity. In my case, I'm happy to have the holes appear anywhere on the paper anymore. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 27, 2006, 12:47 PM	#3
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	Scorch, My handloads in this rifle will shoot clover leaves at 100 yards, but with the Winchester Supreme, it shoots about 1 1/4" groups. Thats the reason I took the bullets out and weighed the powder. Wasn't much difference in the grains but they vary about 1/2 grains apart. That's enough to open the group up considerably. I thought, as you did, that match grade ammo was supposed to be loaded to a higher standard, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's not just a ploy to charge us more money.

June 27, 2006, 01:50 PM	#6
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Well, I don't think you should expect something to be "match" grade, when it's not marked "match grade" - it says "Supreme" for a reason - it does not say "Match", "Supreme Match", or "Match Supreme". "Supreme" is a vague marketing ploy. If it said match and had such inconsistencies, I'd ask for my money back. I thknk that "Supreme" implies "premium hunting ammo".

June 27, 2006, 03:00 PM	#7
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	FF, Your right, as usual, the box does not say Match anywhere. I just ASSUMED it was. I wouldn't want to miss a chance at showing just how stupid I really am. Does Match Grade actually mean it is hand loaded ?

June 27, 2006, 11:20 PM	#9
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	Supreme means it is the best components available for down game animals. meaning better bullets. more reliable bullets. a 1 1/4 group rifle will work just fine on game animals. call it minute of deer. And quite frankly No Major manufacturer handloads ANYTHING. just too time consuming. Was able to get a tour of olin once many years ago. They were loading some 7.62 match that day for the military. That machine was making a box every ten seconds or so...the machine next to it was making 300 win mags. that was a box every 3 or 4 seconds. great big thing goingthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthump thumpthumpthumpthumpthump. Every thump was a new round. Pretty darn cool, rounds were running down the way like those clips of beers running by in the commercials. I think Match is just used to signify top quality and most consistent.

June 28, 2006, 11:21 AM	#10
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	"Match" infers that it has a match-grade bullet on top. It should shoot pretty well in any match rifle. You ought to be able to beat it easily with handloads.