Police shooting, thoughts?

HerrJaegermeister · December 4, 2001, 10:58 PM

Here is an article I wrote last week. It appeared in the Sioux City Journal, a regional daily newspaper in western Iowa, northeast Nebraska and southeast South Dakota.

www.siouxcityjournal.com

Give it a read and offer your thoughts on handgun effectiveness.

Police officer shoots knife-wielding teen

Boy in stable condition at Sioux City hospital

By Mike Koehler
Journal staff writer
A 15-year-old Sioux City boy who apparently lunged at police officers with a knife was shot twice and wounded by a police officer Thursday afternoon.
Manuel Perez was listed in stable condition Thursday after being taken to Mercy Medical Center -- Sioux City.
At about 3:45 p.m. Sioux City Police were called to 4101 Gordon Drive, Lot 83 of the Regency Mobile Home Park regarding a disturbance.
"From the information we obtained, he assaulted his brother with his hands," said Police Lt. Dave Hurni about the teen-ager who was shot.
The boys' mother, Maria Gomez, called 911 to stop the dispute between Perez and his younger brother. The officer fired at Perez shortly before 4 p.m.
Hurni said Perez is 6 feet tall and weighs 250 pounds and has a history of violent behavior. On Oct. 15, police officers responded to the same address where Perez was reportedly intoxicated and threatened suicide with a knife.
Hurni said the shooting remains under investigation by the Sioux City Police Department and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation.
Anthony Peralta, 14, is a classmate of Perez at East High School. He said he witnessed Perez being taken out of the mobile home, and said Perez had two bleeding wounds in his upper abdomen area. Peralta said that when police arrived and tried to calm the dispute between Perez and his brother, Javier, Perez became "more crazy."
Police Chief Joe Frisbie refused to release the name of the officer involved in the shooting. He confirmed that one officer fired two rounds, and Perez was wounded as a result. Frisbie said the name of the officer was being withheld because the incident remains under investigation.
The use of force by the officer appears justifiable, Frisbie said, based on the level of threat. Perez is believed to have taken a swipe at the officer with the knife. He then reportedly came at the officer with the knife in a stabbing manner after officers tried talking him into dropping the weapon. The officer fired when Perez allegedly repositioned the knife in his hand and came at the officer with a downward stabbing motion, police said. The knife was described as nonfolding about 7 inches long, and with about a 4-inch blade.
"Knives are extremely lethal," Frisbie said. "They are extremely dangerous. It is a lethal weapon. We consider it a lethal weapon. It can take an officer's life in an instant, and a person can cover some ground in a very short time."
Hurni said the officer has been placed on administrative leave with pay as per department policy until the investigation has been completed. The officer will also be offered critical incident stress management.

Also read www.pioneerplanet.com as a police officer in St. Paul Minnesota shot at two men with a shotgun as they were fighting and wrestling for a pistol. The incident killed the victim of a car-jacking. Witnesses, however, may have heard the car-jacker's pistol go off just before the officer let loose a shotgun blast. The cop should have used his pistol in that situation.

Chop Farwood · December 4, 2001, 11:04 PM

If the facts are as stated in your article, the officer was fully justified, and acted responsibly. I had a handgun class that went over a number of scenarios involving knives. Really opened my eyes. Knives are a bigger threat than the average person realizes, even when you're armed with a handgun. Few realize what a poor stopper a handgun is, even most avid shooters over estimate their effectiveness. Although I carry regularly, I still basicaly consider a handgun a tool to help me clear a path to evade and escape, or to fight my way to a better weapon. If it alone stops the threat, wonderful. But I don't count on it as an absolute.

**4V50 Gary** · December 4, 2001, 11:27 PM

Sounds like a good shooting to me. The kid is lucky that he's alive.

rock_jock · December 4, 2001, 11:32 PM

Well, if the cop han't shot him, the headline would probably read "Polive Officer Critically Wounded in Stabbing Incident". I prefer the way it turned out.

Bob Locke · December 4, 2001, 11:43 PM

As was stated: If this story is accurate in its reporting, then this is going to be labeled a justified use of force.

HerrJaegermeister · December 5, 2001, 01:35 AM

The case remains under investigation, but the shooting will stand as justified. The facts are correct as I was at the scene, and the police here don't BS.

There was a recent incident in Omaha during which a suspect was shot many times with bean bags and kept coming and sliced the face of an officer.

All of this time-wasting talk on this forum about .40 caliber vs 9mm vs .45 really comes down to they all are about the same. Shootings like this come down to placement and sheer luck. Both shots were in the upper abdomen. Had a major artery been struck or the spine split, the teen would have died. The difference between life and death in this case was a few millimeters and a few moments of time to the ER. They had rescue moments away, and the teen was taken to a good hospital within minutes.

Even though I am a firearms owner an avid hunter and shooter, I would never look forward to using one on a person. It would only be as a last resort, to protect my home or loved ones from harm.

Danny45 · December 5, 2001, 02:56 AM

Damn, I hope the boy's parents don't file a lawsuit. We had a very similar situation here, only with a MACHETE!!!! The kid was hit with pepper spray several times after talking to him only got him more riled up. It had no affect on him. The kid got within a couple of feet of the officer and raised it. The officer was well within the reach of the machete, and fired one round in the 10 ring. 14 year old, DRT (dead right there)

Now get this!!! We lost the law suit. They said we should have backed out of the house, and called in negotiators to deal with him. What a ****ty deal!!!!

Good luck to that officer and the city of Sioux City.

On another note, HerrJaegermeister, I have a girlfriend that lives in North Sioux City, SD. After many visits to her, I now know why people call that place Sewer City.

Man, they need to fix that!!!

David Scott · December 5, 2001, 10:58 AM

Quote:

A 15-year-old Sioux City boy who apparently lunged at police officers with a knife was shot twice and wounded by a police officer Thursday afternoon.

So the officer stopped the threat. Shooting to stop an imminent threat to your own life is justified. Duh.

Quote:

Hurni said Perez is 6 feet tall and weighs 250 pounds and has a history of violent behavior.

So anyone who wants to wepp over this "poor little kid" should compare his size to that of an NFL linebacker. Sounds like this kid could play for the Tampa Bay Bucs.

Quote:

"Knives are extremely lethal," Frisbie said. "They are extremely dangerous. It is a lethal weapon. We consider it a lethal weapon. It can take an officer's life in an instant, and a person can cover some ground in a very short time."

Dennis Tueller lives! Naked blade + 21 feet or less = double tap. Do the math!

December 4, 2001, 10:58 PM	#1
HerrJaegermeister Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2001 Location: Sioux City, Iowa Posts: 126	Police shooting, thoughts? Here is an article I wrote last week. It appeared in the Sioux City Journal, a regional daily newspaper in western Iowa, northeast Nebraska and southeast South Dakota. www.siouxcityjournal.com Give it a read and offer your thoughts on handgun effectiveness. Police officer shoots knife-wielding teen Boy in stable condition at Sioux City hospital By Mike Koehler Journal staff writer A 15-year-old Sioux City boy who apparently lunged at police officers with a knife was shot twice and wounded by a police officer Thursday afternoon. Manuel Perez was listed in stable condition Thursday after being taken to Mercy Medical Center -- Sioux City. At about 3:45 p.m. Sioux City Police were called to 4101 Gordon Drive, Lot 83 of the Regency Mobile Home Park regarding a disturbance. "From the information we obtained, he assaulted his brother with his hands," said Police Lt. Dave Hurni about the teen-ager who was shot. The boys' mother, Maria Gomez, called 911 to stop the dispute between Perez and his younger brother. The officer fired at Perez shortly before 4 p.m. Hurni said Perez is 6 feet tall and weighs 250 pounds and has a history of violent behavior. On Oct. 15, police officers responded to the same address where Perez was reportedly intoxicated and threatened suicide with a knife. Hurni said the shooting remains under investigation by the Sioux City Police Department and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation. Anthony Peralta, 14, is a classmate of Perez at East High School. He said he witnessed Perez being taken out of the mobile home, and said Perez had two bleeding wounds in his upper abdomen area. Peralta said that when police arrived and tried to calm the dispute between Perez and his brother, Javier, Perez became "more crazy." Police Chief Joe Frisbie refused to release the name of the officer involved in the shooting. He confirmed that one officer fired two rounds, and Perez was wounded as a result. Frisbie said the name of the officer was being withheld because the incident remains under investigation. The use of force by the officer appears justifiable, Frisbie said, based on the level of threat. Perez is believed to have taken a swipe at the officer with the knife. He then reportedly came at the officer with the knife in a stabbing manner after officers tried talking him into dropping the weapon. The officer fired when Perez allegedly repositioned the knife in his hand and came at the officer with a downward stabbing motion, police said. The knife was described as nonfolding about 7 inches long, and with about a 4-inch blade. "Knives are extremely lethal," Frisbie said. "They are extremely dangerous. It is a lethal weapon. We consider it a lethal weapon. It can take an officer's life in an instant, and a person can cover some ground in a very short time." Hurni said the officer has been placed on administrative leave with pay as per department policy until the investigation has been completed. The officer will also be offered critical incident stress management. Also read www.pioneerplanet.com as a police officer in St. Paul Minnesota shot at two men with a shotgun as they were fighting and wrestling for a pistol. The incident killed the victim of a car-jacking. Witnesses, however, may have heard the car-jacker's pistol go off just before the officer let loose a shotgun blast. The cop should have used his pistol in that situation.

December 4, 2001, 11:27 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,850	Thanks for sharing. Sounds like a good shooting to me. The kid is lucky that he's alive. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 4, 2001, 11:43 PM	#5
Bob Locke Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1999 Location: Greeley, CO Posts: 2,518	As was stated: If this story is accurate in its reporting, then this is going to be labeled a justified use of force. __________________ "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

December 5, 2001, 02:56 AM	#7
Danny45 Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2000 Location: Tulsa Oklahoma Posts: 434	Damn, I hope the boy's parents don't file a lawsuit. We had a very similar situation here, only with a MACHETE!!!! The kid was hit with pepper spray several times after talking to him only got him more riled up. It had no affect on him. The kid got within a couple of feet of the officer and raised it. The officer was well within the reach of the machete, and fired one round in the 10 ring. 14 year old, DRT (dead right there) Now get this!!! We lost the law suit. They said we should have backed out of the house, and called in negotiators to deal with him. What a ****ty deal!!!! Good luck to that officer and the city of Sioux City. On another note, HerrJaegermeister, I have a girlfriend that lives in North Sioux City, SD. After many visits to her, I now know why people call that place Sewer City. Man, they need to fix that!!! __________________ Danny

December 4, 2001, 11:04 PM	#2
Chop Farwood Member Join Date: February 22, 2001 Posts: 56	If the facts are as stated in your article, the officer was fully justified, and acted responsibly. I had a handgun class that went over a number of scenarios involving knives. Really opened my eyes. Knives are a bigger threat than the average person realizes, even when you're armed with a handgun. Few realize what a poor stopper a handgun is, even most avid shooters over estimate their effectiveness. Although I carry regularly, I still basicaly consider a handgun a tool to help me clear a path to evade and escape, or to fight my way to a better weapon. If it alone stops the threat, wonderful. But I don't count on it as an absolute.

December 4, 2001, 11:32 PM	#4
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,779	Well, if the cop han't shot him, the headline would probably read "Polive Officer Critically Wounded in Stabbing Incident". I prefer the way it turned out.

December 5, 2001, 01:35 AM	#6
HerrJaegermeister Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2001 Location: Sioux City, Iowa Posts: 126	The case remains under investigation, but the shooting will stand as justified. The facts are correct as I was at the scene, and the police here don't BS. There was a recent incident in Omaha during which a suspect was shot many times with bean bags and kept coming and sliced the face of an officer. All of this time-wasting talk on this forum about .40 caliber vs 9mm vs .45 really comes down to they all are about the same. Shootings like this come down to placement and sheer luck. Both shots were in the upper abdomen. Had a major artery been struck or the spine split, the teen would have died. The difference between life and death in this case was a few millimeters and a few moments of time to the ER. They had rescue moments away, and the teen was taken to a good hospital within minutes. Even though I am a firearms owner an avid hunter and shooter, I would never look forward to using one on a person. It would only be as a last resort, to protect my home or loved ones from harm.