Has the patent run out??

[44 AMP]

Friend of mine asked, I have no idea, so am asking the forum to find out what everyone (but me) knows...

There are currently several different companies making rifles that LOOK like they have Marlin 336 actions.

I know Ruger bought Marlin when Remington dissolved, are they not enforcing patent protection on the 336? Can they?? Are the rifles that look like 336s different enough inside to be excluded from the patent? Did Marlin's patent run out??

Just curious what the deal is, and what you know about it.

Thanks.

[Pumpkin]

Kinda funny how many are obviously copying the 336.
No one interested in copying the M94?

[44caliberkid]

Cimarron sells Italian copies of the 94, very nice ones.
The patents on Marlins, Winchesters, and Colts ran out long ago. That’s why a lot of companies are making them.

[JohnKSa]

Patents don't last very long. A couple of decades, maybe.

[FrankenMauser]

The last patent that was relevant on the 336 was related to the cross bolt safety. That patent expired more than 25 years ago.

What *was* relevant was Trade Dress.
But, apparently, that died in the Marlington bankruptcy. (I am not a lawyer, I am assuming.)

[oldbear1950]

I believe those Italian copies of the 94 Winchester copy a 1948, rifle , or I thank that is what I read, and is made without the safety

[oldbear1950]

I thiink all of the Italian copies, of the Henry, 1866, 1873, 1886, 1892, and 1894 are all made without the safety. How do they get away with that, and all the others have the safeties. But I did read that the new Miroku built 1886 does not have a safety

[oldbear1950]

I think that also includes the Italian 1876, no safety I mean

[44 AMP]

I am somewhat familiar with patents, trademarks, and copyrights, the term "trade dress" is new to me, could you explain it, please?

[FrankenMauser]

Trade Dress is a distinctive appearance or feel of a product or its packaging.
Similar protection to a design patent, but it does not expire if maintained.
https://www.justia.com/intellectual-...s/trade-dress/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress

[44caliberkid]

Originally Posted by oldbear1950

I thiink all of the Italian copies, of the Henry, 1866, 1873, 1886, 1892, and 1894 are all made without the safety. How do they get away with that, and all the others have the safeties. But I did read that the new Miroku built 1886 does not have a safety

There is no regulation that a firearm needs a manually operated safety lever, button, or switch. When Winchester put in the cross bolt safety everyone hated it so they moved it to the tang later on. For the first 100 years of lever action rifles the safety was between your ears, still thought of by many as the best safety there is. As we moved into the era of litigators protecting people from their own stupid, neglectful selves, we suddenly needed buttons to make guns “safe”. Now we have Glocks and other guns with “safe triggers” which is no safety either.

[oldbear1950]

My two granddads, were old time town marshalls in Oklahoma during the oil boom of the 1920s and 1930s. At that time, Oklahoma was as wild as anywhere in the world at anytime.
They always said they never felt out gunned with their Winchesters or Marlins.
But they carried them ever day all the time.
As kids they taught us to shoot using their guns, and they all had no safety, except what was between your ears.
Rule #1 It was always loaded.
Rule #2 Do not point at anything you do not aim to shoot,
Rule #3 Do not shoot anything you do not aim to kill
Those were the rules about firearms those old timers lived by

[44 AMP]

The old Winchesters and Marlins do not have "no safety" they have a half cock safety. What they don't have is a crossbolt or tang mounted safety button.

Funny how the guns were made and very widely used for a century or so, before someone decided another safety system was "needed".

I've had several Marlins and Winchesters without the safety buttons, still have a couple, not going to replace them.

I did have one Marlin with the button. I never used the button, other that to be constantly checking it to be sure it was OFF safe. An extra and totally unnecessary hassle on an otherwise fine rifle.

[Pumpkin]

I once sold a JM 336 in 35 Rem to a guy I worked with.
After a weekend of hunting he came up to me the following Monday and asked to get his money back. He and his buddy (who also worked in our building) emptied the 35 on a hog in a trap (a little overkill) and it never fired a round. I said, "did you have the crossbolt safety on"?
He paused a minute and said, "what crossbolt". !
I had shown him the crossbolt safety when he bought it and said, "just leave this in the fire position, use the half cock".
He owned a great many guns so using a half cock notch was not new to him.
Proof that, You Can't Fix Stupid! He changed his mind and kept the rifle.

[Electrod47]

You can copy anything you want....If its crappy with no customer support,,,good luck with that.

[44 AMP]

You Can't Fix Stupid! He changed his mind and kept the rifle.

You can't fix stupid, but sometimes you can educate the un/under educated, and once in a while even enlighten the ignorant, if their minds aren't closed.

Many of us are students of different firearms and how they work. Many people are just "users" who don't know much beyond what they need to know to make the gun (Or whatever) work.

Give someone something that essentially looks like what they are used to, but works just a LITTLE bit differently, odds are they won't realize there is a difference, until it doesn't work the way they expect it to.

ever been in a car or truck (or been the driver?) where the driver has a lot of miles on a standard but not much on an automatic? Odds are high that at some point his left foot is going seek the clutch pedal that isn't there, and find the brake pedal that is, with unexpected results!

Nowdays that's uncommon, but the reverse is not. Put someone who's only driven an automatic in a standard transmission rig they're pretty lost, until they learn the different way it works.

[Pumpkin]

You missed the part where I had shown him the crossbolt and told him to leave it in the fire position and use the half cock on the hammer.
The old boy that bought it usually was too busy talking witch interfered with his hearing.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

You missed the part where I had shown him the crossbolt and told him to leave it in the fire position and use the half cock on the hammer.
The old boy that bought it usually was too busy talking witch interfered with his hearing.

This makes me wonder something. When the hammer is at half cock does it prevent the safety from being accidentally engaged?

[Pumpkin]

They operate independently from each other, kinda silly and possibly more confusing to someone used to the half cock only older guns. I believe this was part of the problem.

[Ricklin]

Why would a manufacturer install a safety button on a dedicated Clays gun?
Beats me, zero need and of course auto safeties can be blamed for many a 24. I think heritage is the only manufacturer who installs a safety lever on a revolver.
I am a fan of Glock too. If one follows the rules, a safety lever is a liability.

[FrankenMauser]

This makes me wonder something. When the hammer is at half cock does it prevent the safety from being accidentally engaged?

No. The cross-bolt safety is simply a hammer block safety. At half-cock, the safety is free to move.
The only time hammer position has any influence upon the safety is when the hammer is fully down and the safety is off. Then, the safety cannot be re-engaged without pulling the hammer to half- or full-cock.

[jetinteriorguy]

I think something like theDA/SA setup in revolvers would be a fantastic setup in a lever. I wonder if its ever been done?

[rc]

They have an evanix revolving PCP rifle.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by rc

They have an evanix revolving PCP rifle.

Kind of cool, guess I could have been a little more clear. I was thinking a DA/SA type trigger action but in a traditional lever action. This way no need for a safety or manually cocking the hammer if you so choose, just pull the trigger similar to a revolver. Just a silly notion.

[44 AMP]

If one follows the rules, a safety lever is a liability.

I disagree. If one follows "the rules" (meaning proper operation of the mechanism) a safety lever is never a liability, and while it might be if you're not following the rules, it also might be the thing that saves your butt from an AD, even if you aren't following "the rules".

Now, if you are speaking of the rules of a specific game, things might be different, but without detailed explanation, I don't see how...

The old boy that bought it usually was too busy talking witch interfered with his hearing.

ok, got it. He was properly instructed, but didn't pay attention.

When I was working in the Small arms shops in the Army, we called that "insufficent operator headspace".

An example of this, was a tread head who brought the coax MG from his tank, to my shop truck at the range, and said "it don't work".

I checked the gun, found nothing obviously wrong, and told him it was ok, go play... 3/4 of an hour later, he was back, with the gun and "it still don't work!"

I detail stripped it, inspected every piece there was NOTHING wrong with it, mechanically, I told him that, and sent him off again.

He was back again shortly after, with the same complaint (and no additional info, either). Frustrated, I geared up, gave him the gun and said "SHOW ME!"

Went to his tank (which was on the firing line) got in, he mounted the gun, loaded it INCORRECTLY, and when he hit the trigger it didn't fire, just jammed.

I moved him aside, cleared the gun, snapped off the damaged rounds from the end of the belt, loaded the gun correctly, and laid on the trigger firing the entire belt in one loong burst. Told him, "works fine for me!" and went back to my spades game in the truck.

I KNOW he had been trained how to do it correctly, but he wasn't doing it, so clearly he didn't listen to his instructions.

You have to be at least as smart as the gun, and its better if you are a little bit smarter.