Question re S&W Model 4506

[dgludwig]

I've been looking at some police trade-in Model 4506s at my lgs. They are in what I would describe very good condition, with some light scuff marks on the finish. The grips, however, show a lot of wear. The pistols come replete with the issuing agency's identification marks, nicely done but still "in your face". My question is how much should I expect to pay for one of these?
Thanks for all inputs/opinions.

[presspics]

Around here police trade 4506's go for around $500-$550.

[carguychris]

I'll basically concur; $450-$550 depending on local market conditions.

FWIW if you intend to replace the grips and you're not familiar with S&W 3rd-gen pistols, be aware that the wraparound grip unit retains the mainspring. Due to the need to incorporate a mainspring retainer, there are generally fewer aftermarket options for these guns than most other common .45ACP automatics, although AFAIK Hogue makes aftermarket grips for this pistol.

[Mike Irwin]

I picked one up at a gunshow in Northern Virginia in 2008 or 2009 for under $400 out the door.

Mine was absolutely filthy, but the finish was good and, as you've noted, the grips are pretty trashed. Lots of wear riding in a belt holster and getting whacked on cruiser doors, door frames, etc.

[dgludwig]

Thanks everybody for your helpful replies. I like pistols chambered in .45 ACP and I'm an unabashed fan of Smith & Wesson "third generation" pistols because of their quality of workmanship and materials and especially because of their extreme reliability record (at least in my experience. I still have and tote a model 6906 that I carried during the last ten years or so of my le career and I can honestly say, on bi-annual re-qualifications, that little pistol never missed a beat, even after digesting thousands of rounds of crappy agency reloads. I trust it and my other Smith 3rd generation pistols implicitly with my life); ergo, my interest in the Model 4506.

As mentioned, my lgs has three "police trade-ins" for sale in the condition as previously described, two going for $399.99 each and one in slightly better condition selling for $419.99. No box, papers or extra mags and the agency identification marks are not from an le department especially steeped in "romanticism" (like, say, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or the Navy Seals might be) but, rather, with the initials "RCDW", identifying the Richland County Dog Warden (as a side note, each pistol has a number after the letters and the ones being discussed have the numbers 1,2 and 4; leading me to believe there are at least four dog wardens serving a county whose biggest city doesn't have fifty thousand residents. It would seem that there must be an awful lot of feral canines roaming the confines of Richland County ).

The prices are "affordable" and I'm still interested. And it's probably one of those situations where the buying opportunity is brief and not likely to appear again any time soon. He who hesitates...

[ClydeFrog]

For me, I've seen prices for used/trade-in S&W 4506 pistols from $450-500.00.
I've seen a few arched(round grip) fixed sight 4506 pistols that would be great for vehicle or home protection.
I think Hogue markets wood & rubber S&W 3rd Gen grips if you'd want to replace them. Novak night sights & maybe a new custom barrel may help too.

ClydeFrog
www.novaksights.com www.gunsamerica.com

[4V50 Gary]

What Carguychris says about the grips are especially important. Be sure the grips are in good condition with no cracks.

[rightside]

You can purchase brand new factory grips for the 4506 directly from S&W. They are suprisingly cheap. i paid $18.00 for a new set of factory 5906 grips directly from their parts dept. It was a police trade-in also with the usual scuffed up grips.

[Mike Irwin]

I've been trying to get the grips off my 4506, and I can't figure out how to do it.

Not that it's a huge deal, but I would like to put a set of Hogues on it.

[carguychris]

Mike...

Remove mag, clear chamber, and decock the hammer.

There is a pin at the lower rear corner of the grip. Drift it out with a punch. It is notched to hold the mainspring retainer; once the notch clears the retainer, the pin can usually be pushed the rest of the way out fairly easily.

Pull the grip unit to the rear, and then down. It usually moves very easily at first because the mainspring is pushing it. The sides of the grips must be gently pried apart to get the unit all the way off. The mainspring and the retainer, which looks like a little aluminum cup, will fall out at some point during this process, so be prepared to catch them.

FWIW now is the perfect time to install a Wolff reduced power mainspring for a lightened DA trigger pull.

To paraphrase numerous automotive shop manuals, installation is the reverse of removal.

BTW dgludwig, the RCMP used the M5943, but the Canadian government has supposedly stated that none will ever be sold on the commercial surplus market.

[dgludwig]

The mainspring and the retainer, which looks like a little aluminum cup, will fall out at some point during this process, so be prepared to catch them.

installation is the reverse of removal.

So after the mainspring and retainer "fall out", do they "fall back in" at the time of reassembly? Not trying to be flip at all but, because I'd like to replace the grips should I buy one and because I am no gunsmith, I'm interested in how difficult it is to replace the parts that fell out while removing the old grips. Also, does the same grip removal and reassembly instructions apply to all Smith 3rd generation pistols (i.e., say the models 6906 and 4006)?
Thanks.

[Mike Irwin]

"Pull the grip unit to the rear and down."

Well, I've got the procedure down pat until we reach that point.

The grips won't move.

[carguychris]

OK, sorry for being short, I typed that post from a mobile device and it was being a PITA.

The mainspring fits around the hammer strut, the long metal piece that dangles from the hammer, and the retaining cup sits inside a little scoop-shaped recess in the grip unit. It's really very obvious how it's supposed to go together once you have it apart.

During reassembly, it may help to hold the pistol upside down with muzzle pointed slightly upwards. This will make the spring and retainer fall into the correct position by gravity.

I've found that the Wolff mainsprings are sometimes slightly longer than the factory spring. If you're installing a Wolff spring, it may help to reach inside the grip with a narrow tool (I used a craft stick) and push the spring into alignment with the hammer strut. This is generally unnecessary with a factory spring.

While reinserting the grip pin Before the grip clicks into place, you need to tightly grasp the grip frame to prevent the mainspring from pushing the grip unit out of alignment.

Other Grip Unit Notes:

• AFAIK the grip removal and reinstallation instructions are the same for all 3rd-gen S&W TDA pistols.
• These instructions will NOT work for 1st- and 2nd-gen pistols because they use traditional separate grip panels and a different mainspring retention method.
• These instructions will NOT work for Hogue grips, which use a proprietary spring retainer that works differently than the stock unit. You'll need the Hogue instructions for these.
• S&W 3rd-gen grips generally interchange between all pistols of the same basic configuration, magazine type, and frame size. AFAIK grips will interchange between the 9mm 59xx/91x-series and the .40S&W 40xx/41x-series, and between the 10mm 10xx-series and the .45ACP 450x/456x-series. The major exception are the xx2x- and xx7x-series frame decocker models, which have a bulge on the LH side to clear the decocking lever. IIRC you can put decocker grips on a non-decocker pistol but NOT the reverse.
• The full-size and compact pistols use different length mainsprings.

[carguychris]

Well, I've got the procedure down pat until we reach that point.

The grips won't move.

You've reached the point where you need to pry the sides apart. See my following post.

[Mike Irwin]

According to your directions, the grip will slide easily first, then the sides need to be pried out.

Grips won't slide at all. Refuse to budge. I'll give it another whirl tonight and see if I can figure it out.

[aden67]

I would not hesitate picking up a 4506...it's a beast and a joy to shoot.

Mine is stamped with the older 645 model number...as it was one of the few that made it out of the factory before they switched over to the 4506 stamp.

[dgludwig]

Thanks, carguychris, for taking the time to explain things for Mr. Badwrench.

[carguychris]

OK, I admit it, I kinda futzed the previous instructions. I was working from memory and my memory isn't always perfect.

The grip unit snaps into place to prevent it from flying out of position as the pin is inserted or removed. To disengage the grips, you pull them to the rear, then down. To reinstall them, you do the reverse- push up, then forward.

I remember doing this in one movement, but it's really two distinct movements.

I've corrected my initial two posts to prevent future confusion.

Thank y'all for your consideration.

[Mike Irwin]

OK, I think that would be the problem, Chris.

I always thought that they slid straight down, and that's what I was trying to do.

I didn't bother with them last night, I watched the ball game instead.

[4V50 Gary]

Isn't the 645's frame solid? If so, that's one advantage it has over the 4506.

[carguychris]

Isn't the 645's frame solid? If so, that's one advantage it has over the 4506.

AFAIK all S&W TDA pistols have solid frames.

The main frame-related different between the generations is that the 2nd- and 1st-gen guns use a separate metal backstrap to retain the mainspring. It is retained with a crosspin in the same basic location as the 3rd-gen grip retaining pin. The grips on the M645 and other 2nd-gen guns are individual panels like on an M1911.

Other than the beveled mag well, the lack of grip screw holes, and the absence of a separate backstrap on the 3rd-gens, AFAIK the rest of the frame is basically similar.

Fortunately for us, the Google Books preview of the "Gun Digest Book of Tactical Weapons Assembly-Disassembly" includes detailed takedown instructions for the 2nd-gen M459, providing a handy illustration of the difference in the grips and frame:

http://books.google.com/books?id=AAn...sembly&f=false

FWIW the other major design change on the 3rd-gen is the integral barrel bushing.

[ClydeFrog]

The only 2 major points I dislike about the S&W 3rd gen 4506 .45acp is the square type trigger guard & the Walther type ambi safety.
The non-ambi mag release isn't that great either. As a left hander, I like mag releases that are either ambi type or that can be converted.

If I were right handed & wanted a big DA/DA only .45acp the 4506 wouldn't be to shabby; .

Clyde

[carguychris]

[One point] I dislike about the S&W 3rd gen 4506 .45acp is the square type trigger guard...

FWIW the M4506, and S&W full-size TDAs in general, went through 3 variations of trigger guards. The 1st type is the one you dislike- the square one with checkering on the front. The 2nd type is rounded but is still checkered on the front. The 3rd type is smooth and slightly more rounded than the 2nd variation.

The M4506 was produced long enough to make it through all 3 variations, but I don't remember if it was produced with the 3rd trigger guard in non-TSW form. (TSW refers to a late-production lineup with a screwed-on tac rails under the dust covers, black slide stops and safety levers, and a garish "TACTICAL SMITH & WESSON" slide legends.)

As a footnote for other readers, the type of trigger guard on a TDA usually affects holster fitment, particularly with leather holsters. Be wary of holster makers who DON'T ask about the type of trigger guard!