Police Positive Special

[chaim]

I have my Police Positive now (I have for most of this week). I still haven't gotten around to shooting it (probably tomorrow, can't today for religious reasons- actually I shouldn't be online but I make some allowances while coming back to observance ).

The gun seems nice.

In the light of the house instead of the low light of the gunshow and the dealer's shop I do see that it isn't in quite as nice condition cosmetically as I thought. There is more wear to the finish, though still just holster wear. No worse than my old Taurus 82 had, I may reblue it but probably not (if I do does anyone know if any of the reblueing products are any good or should I stick with using the professionals).

While I haven't made it to the range I have been dry firing the heck out of it. The trigger is decent, good to great SA, a little heavy DA (though some may have been from disuse since it seems to be lightening up a little).

This gun is a great size for a .38- the frame seems to be almost halfway between the S&W K and J frames leaning slightly towards the J and with 6 shots. It is also pretty light, this would make a great carry gun (when I move). Put this next to my S&W 65LS (3", K-frame .357) and the 65 looks like a behemoth. A 2" barrel on this frame (like on the Detective Special) would be a perfect backup (almost as small as a J-frame with one more shot). I see a Detective Special in my future soon (probably after the first of the year).

I hate the Pachmayr presentation grips on this but I've ordered some nice Colt Walnut grips.

I'm not sure how old it is. If we have any resident Colt experts the serial # is 667xxx.
BTW- This one is definately a .38spl NOT the .38s&w. Does anyone know if I can safely shoot .38+P out of it? My guess is no but if anyone knows better please let me know.

[Radicalcleric]

If your Colt is chambered for the .38 Special then it is a Police Positive Special and not a Police Positive. They are two different guns and the latter has a shorter frame and cylinder that will not allow the .38 Special.

I make your gun a 1955 model. I have been trying without luck for years to buy a gun made in the year of my birth and you did it without even trying.

On +P ammo, I think it is safe but this is a small frame gun (same as Detective Special, only difference is barrel length) so it would be punishing. Occasional use probably OK but it won't be fun.

If the gun is an investment refinishing ruins its value. If the gun is a shooter who cares if the bluing is worn? Hard to make an argument for rebluing using my logic, isn't it?

[4V50 Gary]

Personally I wouldn't give these older guns a steady diet of +p. If you had to do it in a pinch (self defense) that's one thing. For target practice, stick with more conservative loads. JMHO.

[Radicalcleric]

Not sure what you mean by "older guns." A pistol made in 1955 will not be any weaker than one made today all other things being equal. By the 1930s the steel makers had pretty much refined their product to where it is today. Prior to the 1920s steel quality was erratic and tempering iffy at best. The Triple Locks from 1908-1915 had untempered cylinders and are not safe with anything beyond moderate factory loads. Not true with guns made 10 years or so later. Certainly by WW II metallurgy had progressed to the point where defective steel in firearms was not much a problem.

[chaim]

I shot it for the first time and wow, this thing is sweet. Wow. I haven't had this much fun shooting garden variety .38s out of a gun, well, ever.

There is an old man (probably mid 70s) who works at the shop/range where I went. I first bought a soft gun case for it (since it didn't come with a box), he asked what kind of gun I needed it for and when I told him, well I've never seen someone at a gun store so excited over a gun. When I checked in he made sure to be the one to check me in and spend a lot of time looking over the gun, I should have offered a kleenex to wipe off the drool . I think next time he's there when I'm shooting the gun I'll have to invite him to shoot it (I should have today).

I mostly had 130gr American Eagle and it took me a little while to figure out how to sight it to get the holes where I wanted them, but then this gun wouldn't be regulated for 130gr either. This gun is light enough that you can feel these rounds (though not so small as to be uncomfortable) and it was fun to shoot, accurate (once I found where to sight it), the trigger felt even better when shooting it (I actually like the DA while shooting), and well, it just felt right. I also had about half a box of commercial reload 158gr LSWC that shot to POA (obviously this gun was regulated to 158gr bullets). I can see myself buying some more Colts very soon.

I know I'll have to find some more Colt Police Positives and Police Positive Specials in some of the other calibers they were offered in.

There has only been one or two times that I really had to return to the range multiple times in one day but I think I'll have to go back this afternoon.

If your Colt is chambered for the .38 Special then it is a Police Positive Special and not a Police Positive.

Yup, that's how I billed it in the title to the thread, I must have just gotten a bit lazy when typing the first sentence and I didn't catch it .

I make your gun a 1955 model. I have been trying without luck for years to buy a gun made in the year of my birth and you did it without even trying.

Dumb luck I guess. That does seem like a good idea (and a good excuse to pick up a ton of guns). I think I'll start looking for Colts (esp. the Police Positive Special and I think I want a Trooper MKIII) and S&Ws made in 1970.

Thanks for the info.

[C.R.Sam]

Glad you finally got it in your hands Chaim.
And glad that it likes you.

Sam

[Thirties]

Folks, I just joined this PP Special Club yesterday with a 4" Colt Police Positive special (.38spl) serial no. 247,6xx (gun has black plastic-looking grips).

I shot 12 factory rounds through it yesterday and was able to hit 2 inch wood chips on a sand bank at 25 yards (Winchester 130 gr fmj; Aguilla 158 gr lrn) about half the time.

Light weight, small grip and rear sight took some getting used to, but I like this gun a lot.

I have the feeling she/he is an oldie (not yet learned the gun's personality) and will not be pushing the +p stuff. I also plan on taking up loading my own in .38/.357 (also have a 4" Ruger GP-100). That should give me a lot of enjoyment. Glad to see others who like these guns.

See photo in following message...

[Thirties]

In another topic, Ol' Fuff gave me the date of manufacture: 1922

Here's a photo:

[Gila Jorge]

Used to have the Police Positive (38 S&W Shorts)
and it was a fine gun to shoot. Mine had just sat
in a drawer for years as it had been issued to a bank teller and was actually shot very little. Mine was probably 99%. I sold it years ago and got a 357 which I like better....but for concealment the Colt could not be beat. Small profile and nice holding. Trigger was excellent.

[Thirties]

I'm new to revolvers, and have a question about this gun...

The GP100 Ruger I have has a firing pin and a plate which blocks the hammer from the pin unless the trigger is pulled.

This Colt Police "Positive" is supposed to prevent firing unless the trigger is pulled. But what if you've just thumbed down the hammer on a live round. Is it safe to leave/carry this gun in this condition, or must I always have the top chamber either empty or with a fired shell in there.

As I said, I'm new to revolvers, and could use your help.

Thank you...

[Old Fuff]

Your Colt Police Positive Special has a hammer block that is linked to the trigger. While you are lowering the hammer on a loaded round be sure to let the trigger follow down too. When this is done the block (called the “safety”) will intercept and stop the hammer before it goes far enough for the firing pin to hit the primer. If you hold the trigger back while lowering the hammer this safety won’t work. If it did you wouldn’t be able to fire the revolver. As always, never lower the hammer on a loaded chamber (or an unloaded one for that matter) unless the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.

While it is not necessary, I carry my Police Positive Special with five rounds and the hammer down on an empty chamber unless I am carrying it as a weapon (which usually isn’t the case) and then load all six. In my view, 5 is enough for field carry or the target range.

[Thirties]

Thanks, Fuff. I was thinking along the lines of five in the cylinder, hammer on empty slot for walking around in the woods. You've been very helpful indeed.

A very happy Thanksgiving Day to all . . .

[James K]

I never had any qualms about carrying modern DA revolvers fully loaded. The S&W and Colt hammer blocks are about as fool proof as you can get. Colt was the first with a block that was attached to the trigger and HAD to work, which is why they called it a "positive" safety device. The earlier S&W's (until part way though WWII) had a hammer block, but it was spring loaded and if it was dirty or the spring broke, the block would not come out in front of the hammer.

Until Ruger came up with a better idea, single actions were very prone to firing if dropped since the safety notch and thin trigger would bend or break easily. The advice to always load any SA except the new Rugers with an empty chamber is good, though in fact the old timers dropped the hammer between rounds. Not as safe, but it allowed the gun to be fully loaded.

Jim

[Old Fuff]

Jim,

I don’t have any “qualms” about carrying 6 rounds in older Colt and S&W revolvers. But I shoot a lot if different handguns of varied age. Therefore to be consistent I usually (but not always) carry the hammer down on an empty chamber. Of course on those occasions when I have a handgun in a weapon context I carry a late model loaded to the hilt. The carry “hammer down on an empty chamber” mode may be an overboard safety tactic but I consider it to be a reasonable procedure if my neck isn’t on the line. Old habits die hard …..

[Lone Star]

Thirties-

That Colt Positive Safety Lock dates from 1905. They "got on it" early!

I had a Police Positive Special .38 that was a dead ringer for yours when I was in junior high school. I wouldn't shoot one of those made before the 1930's with Plus P rounds unless I had only Plus P ammo, and HAD to fire the gun, as when a burglar was breaking in. Those made in the 1950's and beyond were rated by Colt as safe for Plus P, but they advised returning the gun to the factory for a check after firing 3,000 rounds of it. Aluminum (Agent and Cobra) framed versions were to be inspected after only 1,000 rounds of Plus P.

Metullurgy certainly improved during the 1920's and even more by the '30's, when Colt's catalogs "listed" .38 Hi Speed (.38/44) ammo as being useable in all their .38 Specials. However, as 1911 fans will know, Colts made after WWII had even better steel and heat treating. Many gunsmiths won't accurize earlier M1911 types, as the softer steel wears sooner, and the effect of their work declines more rapidly than when done on newer guns with harder steel.

It is true that S&W didn't heat treat their guns until about 1919, but Triple Locks used by Elmer Keith and others didn't blow up even when subjected to horribly overloaded handloads. Keith reported this many times in his writing, but loading a Triple Lock or early Second Model much beyond current factory pressure levels is still probably treading on thin ice. For one thing, those guns are now much older than when Elmer shot them, and steel reportedly gets more brittle with great age.

Lone Star

[Thirties]

Interesting comments . . . while cleaning the gun, I thumbed down the hammer whith the cyclinder swung open both with the trigger pulled, and with the trigger released. so I now understand what the positive hammer block is and how it works.

I really like this little gun. Next time I shoot, I'll try wearing a glove. Maybe that way I'll not mind the small grip.

I can see that once you own revolvers, you are on a straight path to loading your own ammo!

[gordo b.]

I decided after my mountain biking friends(younger and more intense than I) bought .357 Scandium Kit guns to make up my own in Colt persuasion. I have a 66 Cobra and a 79 Dick special and a 80s Agent that I bobbed the hammer and teflon finished. Although the Agent is close I wanted the steel frame of the Dick special and a 4 inch barrel. So I found a NEW 4" nickle .38spl barrel with ramp style front sight on EBAY for $25 then lowe and behold I found a complete as new nickle late 80s Cobra on EBAY less frame(!) which I won for $50. I sent the Dick special which had fairly worn finish and substantial rounds thru it, to John Lawson with the Police positive barrell and all the new Cobra parts and told him to make me up a slick kit gun ,possibly with the Ellison sight he took off my Gold Cup. My goal is : 900fps from hard cast 173 grain Keith bullet, you see these guns are to repell the bears we run into on mountain bikes in Sierras. I hope I get it in time for Christmas and I will post pictures!

[Old Fuff]

Thirties:

Numrich Gun Parts Corp. (http://www.e-gunparts.com) used to have some Colt-made oversized walnut grips for the Police Positive. A little inletting would be needed in the bottom-rear and bottom-front corners, but it shouldn’t be difficult. Check out Item No. 261900 @ $23.65. Also Pachmayr grip adapter, Item No. 538650 (Small) and 538660 (Large), @ $6.20 ea. If your are willing to do some work they have J-Scott inletted walnut blanks (semi-shaped) for $5.20. Item No. 546990. Set the original grips aside and save them. They can go back on the gun anytime you want.

[Thirties]

Thanks Fuff, if the gloves don't do it for me, I'll check out the Numrich grip panels.

When I finally got done with my chores today, it had started snowing pretty heavy. So I'll keep the Colt inside for now.

[Paul Fitz Jones]

This old retiree has a few Cherry Wood aftermarket grips made before WW2 for older Colts. Viper, diamondback, police positive special and more contact me at [email protected]

[springer]

Just bought one of these revolvers. Would anyone know when it was manufactured? Its serial number is 1024XX. Thanks!