Search and Rescue in NO - At Gun Point?

[Dead]

On the news in my area regarding the search and rescue of "victims" in NO, they are constantly showing what appears to be SWAT teams going house to house point their machine guns at the windows, and breaking down doors.. At one point there was a guy with many a M16 AIMED into a house, saying "Search & Rescue COME OUT" who in their right mind would think these people are their to rescue them? They are trying to rescue people like they are hunting them in their own homes, not trying to save them.

It comes down to: "Come out or we will shoot you, it is for your own good" :barf:

The FORCED relocation in Israel were carried out by UNARMED police from what I saw, why is it here in America that they need fulled armed police and military to "rescue" people under what appears to be the REAL threat of shooting them if they do not want to leave their own home? geeeezz. These military and police need to be stopped, and their guns taken away, throw them in a cell and weld it shut, if you want to rescue people dont go after them like they are hardened criminals hell bent on killing everyone they see.

[griz]

I saw the same clip. The news guy was saying that "police are going house to house to rescue people" while on the screen the armed and armoured point man kicks the door in.

There's probably a lesson here for serving warrants. If a team of armed men knock your door down and run in to surround you at gunpoint, does it really matter what they scream as they do it? I think the response will be the same if they scream "police, GET DOWN" or "search and rescue, COME OUT" or even "the storm is over, YOU'RE SAFE". The impression will still be these guys are going to shoot me.

[TheeBadOne]

...and if an armed looter is inside?

[Rich Lucibella]

This is absurd.
Would anyone on this board be willing to start searching those houses with their gun holstered, or would you kinda prefer to have your weapon in the ready position, safety on, finger straight?

Shall we send in the Welcome Wagon to start searching homes in neighborhoods where we know there are still pockets of the criminal element?
Let's at least be realistic when we start leveling criticism at LEO's and NG who are doing a phenomenal job down there now that the politicians are distracted by their own damage control and finger pointing.
Rich

[ebd10]

I agree that, if they're commissioned to search for looters, they should use caution. But, the reports coming out of NOLA say that they are going in and enforcing the mandatory evacuation decree from...where ever it came from. With that in mind, what will those appointed to carry out these orders do if they come upon a homeowner that is prepared to stay, to the point of armed resistance? Will they just shrug their shoulders and leave them to their fate? Or will the incident escal;ate until they end up shooting him? "We had to kill him to save him." just doesn't sound like a good strategy to me. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

[Rich Lucibella]

But, the reports coming out of NOLA say that they are going in and enforcing the mandatory evacuation decree from

Early reports and the Mayor stated this. The NG and local cops flatly deny being involved in such activities, except on an exception basis.
Rich

[Zekewolf]

It's not reasonable to think that the Special Forces guys have been successful in hunting down and killing all the gangbangers.

[animal]

Ok .. here's the story I got.
If you are out on the street, you can pretty much bet that you will be challenged and "evacuated". If you are inside your house, you won't be bothered unless your address has posed a "problem". If you are inside, and invite them in, you are in a gray area.
They seem to be using a little common sense at times. For instance, a guy shows up at a base looking for generator fuel (for some sort of life support equipment for a relative). He was challenged, but he remained insistant and non-threatening. They took him into custody, confirmed his story, and sent him on his way with a DRUM of fuel ! ... not by the regs. but real nice.
Another tidbit ... a small group of "civilians" flag down a deuce yelling that they need food/water. The deuce stops to toss out supplies. Weapons come out of the crowd ...
Our good guys have to be real careful and I don't blame them a bit for being loaded for bear.
The good guys in their homes trying to protect their property need to sit tight and stay out of the way.

[molonlabe]

animal, You have a linkk to this story or just hearsay?

[zzirg]

Its a common tactical search i wouldn't expect anything else, after all charles manson and adolf hitler all both lived in houses.

[animal]

Zekewolf …The major gang threat downtown was quieted pretty quickly and legally. No, they didn’t get all of ‘em but the ones that are left are running scared or hiding. Those that actively participated were not military or regular LE. Hint: At the time the operation started, those under the Governor’s control weren’t even allowed to shoot back.
A pretty fair number of BGs were not from N.O. … they were gangbangers. At least some came into town after the levee broke.

[BerettaCougar]

Rich is working for the MAN.



JK

[griz]

I guess we will see if it's "search an rescue" or "search and sieze weapons before eviction". When some of the holdouts decline to be rescued the actions of the S&R teams will indicate intentions more than what they say they are trying to accomplish.

[CobrayCommando]

Could they legally kick down my door and shoot me if I had a gun in my hand if I lived in NO?

[BerettaCougar]

Cobray good point.

Could they kick down your door without a search warrant?

Do they have a city wide pass, allowing them to enter private property without any form of powercap?

What if they knock and the home owner says GO AWAY.
And they knock the door down..

Would this be some sort of rights violation?

[BerettaCougar]

And also, if a home owner takes up arms against such invasion, and defends his property, and he is shot wounded or killed. would he be labeled as a renegade or a citizen who tried to defend his property?

The media will more than likely call him some sort of insurgent or something.

This entire thing is insane.

[Rich Lucibella]

Guys-
Unless someone can demonstrate to me that forced evacuation is actually occuring in NOLA, other than in isolated cases, I'm going to have to close this thread.....there is no "Fantasy Forum" on TFL.

We blame sites like the Brady Center for spreading disinformation. I'm not going to allow the anti's that same ammunition against TFL.
Rich

[BerettaCougar]

Rich, didnt the mayor publicly authorize forced evacs?

http://www.atsnn.com/story/168228.html

Theres also a discussion going on there.

[Wildcard]

The NG and local cops flatly deny being involved in such activities, except on an exception basis.

If it happens once, dont give a hoot if its the exception, its wrong.

[Rich Lucibella]

BC-
In a situation like this, 3 day old news is not news at all: The Governor made it clear that he does not have this authority; The City Attorney made it clear that he does not have this authority; the NG and NOPD have repeatedly stated that they have no time for such actions.

This is tantamount to claiming there are firearms confiscations going on nationwide, based on a wish list reported from Feinstein. We need to be a bit above such knee jerk rumor mongering.

WC-
It might be "wrong"; it might not. If your next door neighbor refused to leave their home despite the fact that it was in danger of falling on yours, would your town have a right to remove that person and stabilize the structure?

Look....IF NOLA was actively removing everyone they find from the city, by dragging them off the streets and from their homes, I'd be right with you in indignation. Fact of the matter is that they are not doing so.....in fact, the NOPD, volunteers and NG are now doing a great job.

I find it interesting that some of the same people who were arguing that NOLA turned into a port are now moaning about the govt treatment of people who "have a right" to stay in their homes despite a Public Health crisis.
Rich

[Rich Lucibella]

The first who claims that I am supporting a forced evac will only be revealing their own lack of reading comprehension.

Again, I'm going to require some REAL reporting that forced evacs are happening to keep this thread open. This is NOT the Y2K Board. It's TFL. Back it up or hold your tongue.
Rich

[Dead]

"Forced Evacuations" might not be the norm but the exception, however LEO's are rather insistent that people leave... In some cases it is a VERY good idea, in others no so good. If they are in a position where they can take care of themselves, and dont want to leave let them be. If they are in a place where they are in danger insistent but do not force them, their life their choice.... That is my belief...

[Rich Lucibella]

Agreed Dead:
But, B-I-G difference between "insistent" and "forced".

All of us who live on barrier islands in hurricane country understand that "mandatory" simply means we're on our own, should we refuse to leave. The Cops come thru and are VERY insistent. That is a good thing.....causes only those who really believe they're prepared to stay.

But, again, there's a big difference between asking me to write my SSN on my arm with a Sharpie and dragging me from my home to the great moaning and knashing of teeth by TFL'rs who seem to be getting too much of their news from internet blogs.

Rich

[CobrayCommando]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.impact/

"These citizens will have to be removed for their own good," Police Superintendent Eddie Compass told CNN.

[Rich Lucibella]

You don't read, Cobray.
That is a well known statement by the NOPD Mayor......from 3 days ago. It's been repeatedly refuted by the news reports, the Governor, the City Attorney and the actions of the NOPD down there.

Thread closed until someone can back-up these claims with on site and current reports. Twinkie factor is just too high.
Rich