Stolen guns?

kiov · January 29, 2007, 01:19 PM

Is there any easy way to tell if a gun is stolen? Buying off the internet makes me nervous for this reason. Also, I have a friend who inherited a large collection of guns from his dad, who was a used car dealer and would take guns as trades. Some have the serial numbers scratched off. I'd avoid those of course, but wonder if the others are OK, or if I can check somehow.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
kiov

Metaloy Industries · January 29, 2007, 01:25 PM

If you buy guns off of the net, by law you must have them shipped to an FFL and fill out form 4473 from there. Buying from a reputable dealer is about the only way.

SOSARMS · January 29, 2007, 01:26 PM

I believe this issue came up just a short time back, so you might want to do a search on this forum. But, I believe that the general attitude was that you need to provide the serial number to law enforcement, and let them run it through the ATF site....

Metaloy Industries · January 29, 2007, 01:28 PM

I believe when he does the 4473 and background check at his dealer, this will be taken care of.

Flame Red · January 29, 2007, 02:27 PM

I live in Florida and have been present a hundred times when the FFL called in the Instant-Check. I never heard them provide the serial number during the call.

I know in Florida there is a web site that can be used to check:

http://www3.fdle.state.fl.us/fdle/guns_search.asp

DBOUNCE1 · January 29, 2007, 04:47 PM

good question i have always wondered this too

Hayley · January 30, 2007, 03:52 AM

BTW for your friend, a defaced serial number makes a firearm contraband and illegal to possess...at least that's my understanding.

blume357 · January 30, 2007, 06:16 AM

removing the serial number from a gun will get you put in prison.... pocessing one is no different.

MPanova · January 30, 2007, 06:46 AM

A friend on mine picked up a used Glock 22 for $350 thats in really good shape. It might have 100 rounds or so through it. He bought it from someone he knows but its not like its one of his best friends. So he asks me if I know how to check to see if the gun is "clean" meaning has it been used in a crime or is it stolen. I have no idea how to do this and personally I have never bought a used gun from an indavidual before. I figured this would be the best place to ask

Seven High · January 30, 2007, 07:33 AM

I have seen many face to face sales at gunshows where pistols were sold. No i.d. was presented by the seller. I have often wondered if stolen weapons were sold in this manner.

9x19 · January 30, 2007, 07:54 AM

If it was known to have been used in a crime, it would be in police custody, wouldn't it? I mean the police would have to have had it for testing to match it to whatever evidence was recovered, cases or fired bullets... so finding that out would be rather tough... finding out if its stolen, locally, contact your nearest police dept and ask if they have a "list" you can check the serial number against.

Capt. Charlie · January 30, 2007, 12:51 PM

The only way to have them checked is to take the make, model, serial number, and caliber to a law enforcement agency and request it be checked through NCIC. Most agencies will do this as a courtesy, but I recommend doing it in person rather than by phone. The process only takes a few minutes.

Guns are NOT checked for stolen during a NICS check. The only thing NICS does is check you for a criminal history.

Most gun shops check used guns with a law enforcement agency when they obtain them, but not all. If you're thinking about purchasing a used gun, be especially careful in dealing with pawn shops, gun shows, Internet transactions, and private purchases.

If you encounter a weapon that appears to have an altered or obscured serial number, run, don't walk, away. (By the way, filing off the serial number doesn't really remove it. The molecular structure of the metal under the stamped area is altered, and using a special thermal imaging technique, we can usually bring the serial number back up.)

Records of stolen guns are kept both in the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database, and in the state's database where the theft occurred. Both databases are linked and a query searches both.

One thing I should mention though is that a "hit" on a stolen gun is based on serial numbers only. So if you check a legal Remington 700 with a serial number of 1234, and 20 years ago someone reported a S&W mod. 19 with the same serial number stolen, it will come back a false "hit". It happens quite frequently. They are supposed to check all hits for make, model, caliber, and serial number, but some overeager or new dispatchers sometimes forget, and that can lead to a few tense moments.

Now all of this assumes that the gun was formally reported stolen in the first place. There are thousands of guns recovered every year that can't be returned to the legal owner because when they were stolen, the owner didn't have the serial number. Without the serial number, a gun can NOT be entered into any database, so folks, make sure you have those numbers tucked away somewhere safe.

kiov · January 31, 2007, 11:48 AM

Capt.
Thanks very much for the info. That was very informative. I am going to tell my friend that he is taking a big risk even keeping any of those guns with altered serial numbers, despite the fact that he inherited them.

kiov

hoytinak · January 31, 2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

BTW for your friend, a defaced serial number makes a firearm contraband and illegal to possess...at least that's my understanding.

Quote:

removing the serial number from a gun will get you put in prison.... pocessing one is no different.

On this note. What about building rifles, ie. AK's from kits and making the recievers yourself? I have a couple that I built and heard the only reason I needed to put a serial number on them is if I was going to sell them, otherwise they are perfectly legal. Is this true?

10 MickeyMouse · January 31, 2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

On this note. What about building rifles, ie. AK's from kits and making the recievers yourself? I have a couple that I built and heard the only reason I needed to put a serial number on them is if I was going to sell them, otherwise they are perfectly legal. Is this true?

Yes, but it's a little more complicated on the selling part. You either need to be a manufacturer or an SOT to apply a serial number and sell the firearm. You cannot simply inscribe some alphanumeric characters and sell the firearm.

But so long as the firearm is for personal use only and qualifies as a title I firearm (No full auto, SBR, etc), yes, you can manufacture it. As far as building parts kits with your own reciever, make sure you're in compliance with 922(r).

hoytinak · January 31, 2007, 10:43 PM

MickeyMouse,
Thanks, that's what I though, just wanted to make sure. Yeah I've kept all my builds with 922 specs.

Maser · February 1, 2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

BTW for your friend, a defaced serial number makes a firearm contraband and illegal to possess...at least that's my understanding.

Just how defaced can the serial number be? I ask because my little brother's shotgun's serial number got scratched up a bit when it was on a wall hanger. The screws on the hanger rubbed up against the number. The number is still very readable, but from the looks of it it looks like the serial number was deliberatly scratched.

UniversalFrost · February 1, 2007, 05:58 AM

As far as the serial number being scratched but still readable, shouldn't be a problem. If it is deep and looks like it was intentional I would take the gun down to a gunsmith and have him restamp, engrave, whatever... the serial number. Make sure it is the same serial being engraved as was on the gun originally though.

As for the guns that have no serial numbers because they were removed. I would destroy them ASAP or at least take them apart and turn in the receivers to the cops and sell or use the spare parts that are left over. Just having possession of these weapons will land you in jail.

dfaugh · February 1, 2007, 10:08 AM

Well, I would think that one of the PRIMARY indications that a guns was stolen, or used in a crime, would be that the serial number was defaced. That would tell you something right there.

Ausserordeutlich · February 1, 2007, 11:04 AM

The fact that the guns were inherited from a used car dealer would be pretty good evidence to me that crimes had been committed.

kiov · February 2, 2007, 01:00 PM

I concur on that.

January 29, 2007, 01:19 PM	#1
kiov Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2004 Posts: 283	Stolen guns? Is there any easy way to tell if a gun is stolen? Buying off the internet makes me nervous for this reason. Also, I have a friend who inherited a large collection of guns from his dad, who was a used car dealer and would take guns as trades. Some have the serial numbers scratched off. I'd avoid those of course, but wonder if the others are OK, or if I can check somehow. Thanks in advance for any advice. kiov

January 29, 2007, 01:25 PM	#2
Metaloy Industries Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 179	If you buy guns off of the net, by law you must have them shipped to an FFL and fill out form 4473 from there. Buying from a reputable dealer is about the only way. __________________ Chris Peters Metaloy Industries, Inc. www.originalmetaloy.com The 'Original' Hard Chrome finish TactiKote finish Visit the Metaloy Blog http://metaloyindustries.typepad.com/

January 29, 2007, 01:28 PM	#4
Metaloy Industries Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 179	I believe when he does the 4473 and background check at his dealer, this will be taken care of. __________________ Chris Peters Metaloy Industries, Inc. www.originalmetaloy.com The 'Original' Hard Chrome finish TactiKote finish Visit the Metaloy Blog http://metaloyindustries.typepad.com/

January 29, 2007, 04:47 PM	#6
DBOUNCE1 Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: OMAHA Posts: 189	good question i have always wondered this too __________________ KICK THE TIRES AND LIGHT THE FIRES

January 30, 2007, 06:16 AM	#8
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	Hayleys Right removing the serial number from a gun will get you put in prison.... pocessing one is no different.

January 29, 2007, 01:26 PM	#3
SOSARMS Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2006 Location: The great Buckeye state...where nuts are not just for eating Posts: 623	I believe this issue came up just a short time back, so you might want to do a search on this forum. But, I believe that the general attitude was that you need to provide the serial number to law enforcement, and let them run it through the ATF site....

January 29, 2007, 02:27 PM	#5
Flame Red Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Posts: 77	I live in Florida and have been present a hundred times when the FFL called in the Instant-Check. I never heard them provide the serial number during the call. I know in Florida there is a web site that can be used to check: http://www3.fdle.state.fl.us/fdle/guns_search.asp

January 30, 2007, 03:52 AM	#7
Hayley Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2004 Posts: 295	BTW for your friend, a defaced serial number makes a firearm contraband and illegal to possess...at least that's my understanding.

January 30, 2007, 06:46 AM	#9
MPanova Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Location: Houston TX Posts: 681	How to find out if a used gun is "clean" A friend on mine picked up a used Glock 22 for $350 thats in really good shape. It might have 100 rounds or so through it. He bought it from someone he knows but its not like its one of his best friends. So he asks me if I know how to check to see if the gun is "clean" meaning has it been used in a crime or is it stolen. I have no idea how to do this and personally I have never bought a used gun from an indavidual before. I figured this would be the best place to ask __________________ .45 CALIBER FANATIC!!! "WALK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG GUN!"

January 30, 2007, 07:33 AM	#10
Seven High Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Posts: 650	I have seen many face to face sales at gunshows where pistols were sold. No i.d. was presented by the seller. I have often wondered if stolen weapons were sold in this manner.

January 30, 2007, 07:54 AM	#11
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,751	If it was known to have been used in a crime, it would be in police custody, wouldn't it? I mean the police would have to have had it for testing to match it to whatever evidence was recovered, cases or fired bullets... so finding that out would be rather tough... finding out if its stolen, locally, contact your nearest police dept and ask if they have a "list" you can check the serial number against. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

January 30, 2007, 12:51 PM	#12
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	The only way to have them checked is to take the make, model, serial number, and caliber to a law enforcement agency and request it be checked through NCIC. Most agencies will do this as a courtesy, but I recommend doing it in person rather than by phone. The process only takes a few minutes. Guns are NOT checked for stolen during a NICS check. The only thing NICS does is check you for a criminal history. Most gun shops check used guns with a law enforcement agency when they obtain them, but not all. If you're thinking about purchasing a used gun, be especially careful in dealing with pawn shops, gun shows, Internet transactions, and private purchases. If you encounter a weapon that appears to have an altered or obscured serial number, run, don't walk, away. (By the way, filing off the serial number doesn't really remove it. The molecular structure of the metal under the stamped area is altered, and using a special thermal imaging technique, we can usually bring the serial number back up.) Records of stolen guns are kept both in the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database, and in the state's database where the theft occurred. Both databases are linked and a query searches both. One thing I should mention though is that a "hit" on a stolen gun is based on serial numbers only. So if you check a legal Remington 700 with a serial number of 1234, and 20 years ago someone reported a S&W mod. 19 with the same serial number stolen, it will come back a false "hit". It happens quite frequently. They are supposed to check all hits for make, model, caliber, and serial number, but some overeager or new dispatchers sometimes forget, and that can lead to a few tense moments. Now all of this assumes that the gun was formally reported stolen in the first place. There are thousands of guns recovered every year that can't be returned to the legal owner because when they were stolen, the owner didn't have the serial number. Without the serial number, a gun can NOT be entered into any database, so folks, make sure you have those numbers tucked away somewhere safe. __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

January 31, 2007, 11:48 AM	#13
kiov Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2004 Posts: 283	Capt. Thanks very much for the info. That was very informative. I am going to tell my friend that he is taking a big risk even keeping any of those guns with altered serial numbers, despite the fact that he inherited them. kiov

January 31, 2007, 10:43 PM	#16
hoytinak Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,721	MickeyMouse, Thanks, that's what I though, just wanted to make sure. Yeah I've kept all my builds with 922 specs.

February 1, 2007, 05:58 AM	#18
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	As far as the serial number being scratched but still readable, shouldn't be a problem. If it is deep and looks like it was intentional I would take the gun down to a gunsmith and have him restamp, engrave, whatever... the serial number. Make sure it is the same serial being engraved as was on the gun originally though. As for the guns that have no serial numbers because they were removed. I would destroy them ASAP or at least take them apart and turn in the receivers to the cops and sell or use the spare parts that are left over. Just having possession of these weapons will land you in jail. __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green Last edited by UniversalFrost; February 1, 2007 at 11:08 AM. Reason: spelling

February 1, 2007, 10:08 AM	#19
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	Well, I would think that one of the PRIMARY indications that a guns was stolen, or used in a crime, would be that the serial number was defaced. That would tell you something right there. __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

February 1, 2007, 11:04 AM	#20
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	The fact that the guns were inherited from a used car dealer would be pretty good evidence to me that crimes had been committed.

February 2, 2007, 01:00 PM	#21
kiov Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2004 Posts: 283	I concur on that.