Springfield XD Poorly Designed?

[Zekewolf]

Handy's right about the frame having absolutely nothing to do with a pistol's propensity towards KBing. However, both the locking block pin and trigger pin are steel on Glocks, not nylon. The trigger housing pin (rear of frame) is polymer.

I'll take Andrew's word that his marine-friend is an expert; however, nothing that he's quoted his friend as saying, so far, makes any sense or is relevant to Glock's safety or design.

I've never fired an XD, but did look at them when they were still HS2000's. Didn't do anything for me, but some folks like 'em.

As to a consumer not detail stripping a pistol, particularly a pistol as simple as a Glock, then I just don't agree with that. I can't imagine ever needing the services of a gunsmith or armorer for anything that a Glock might require.

Oh, the reason the third pin was added to the 9mm frames was simply a decision regarding manufacturing uniformity; had nothing to do with safety. However, three-pin 9mm Glocks will now easily handle .357 Sig uppers and conversion barrels.

[CHM]

On a positive note: Springfield Armory customer service is excellent and they back-up their products. One could just send the gun to them if there are issues and they'll make it right. I have never had a need to do more to my XD40 than field strip, which is very straightforward. I agree that parts should not fit backwards and such and, if this is true, can understand why law enforcement/military won't adopt this pistol. Currently, the M9s in service have to be diassembled regularly in a desert environment, armorer or not.

[Handy]

Actually, SA has good customer service for its products that it still carries. But try getting an Omega, SAR-8, P9 or SAR-4800 worked on.

The XD will be the same way after they stop being the importer.

[dolanp]

I will say this: It may be true that some parts could be reversed but over at the HS2000/XD forum there have been complete newbies who have followed instructions there on complete disassembly and they were able to do it successfully. Granted, it is better if the parts cannot go in backwards, but if a newbie can do it then an armorer who can't is incompetent.

[billtheshrink]

I have an XD 9109 and just purchased an XD 40 subcompact. I have squirted thousands of rounds through it without a single failure. Once i reassembled the weapon failing to include the spring. I felt like a dimmy, but was able to rectify the problem with patience. For me the XD and people at SA are great. I only wish +P ammo was ok in the short slide weapons.

[kgpcr]

People have also had a major problem with Q-Tips over the years. They have inserted all the way into thier ear and have done some real damage. if you are not smart enough to use aQ-Tip then leave them alone. I love my XD's and do not own one Glock right now and dont plan on it anytime in the future. The XD is so simple to field strip and clean if you cant do it then you will not be able to clean any other pistol out there right now

[progunner1957]

Sounds to me like all this hoopla is a great endorsement of the 1911...

[joecad]

the ruger p345 has a recoil spring that can be put in backwards and cause problems. however it is noted in bold print in the manual. i read the manual, am always careful to put it back in correctly and there is no problem.
my dad was a mechanic and he told me to pay attention to detail and put it back the same way i got it out...it has always worked for me.

[Handy]

I just don't understand that. How hard is it to make two ends of a recoil spring different and exclusive in size?


A gun like that should be able to be assembled in the dark.

[Andrew LB]

Hmm.... Looks like a firestorm has begun over the KaBoom issue....

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=178799
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

I'd have to say that THIS ia serious issue. Not some stupid user error such as getting the recoil spring stuck when not having the disassembly lever put all the way down.

[Handy]

I'm considering buying an FN. Neither problem on those guns.

[Hello123]

One will not regret the purchase of the XD.

[mylesd]

I have also seen a ruger lock up the slide because the recoil spring was in backwards. As for the xd I have the hs2000 version. I have completely stripped the slide a couple of times and have replaced parts in the frame also. No problems putting it back together and it runs and runs. Mark

[Foxy]

As for the military using glocks.... my friend who is special forces and all of his buddies use them.

After many years of hanging out on gun forums, I've learned that if someone is making a claim and backs it up with, "My special forces buddy sez so!" you can usually safely discount the claim.

[lcjones]

I'm a gunsmith and have had a couple in the shop for trigger jobs. Unfortunately, Springfield and the Coriation design has made it so that it is almost impossible to lighten the trigger pull. Springfield will do trigger jobs for $90.00 plus, depending on what you want. Their service is good but expensive and you don't have you pistol for a while.

On the other side of your concern, I do not see how any competent gunsmith would get parts in wrong. especially a pin that had to be drilled out. I have an XD9 apart about 20 times and it is just not that complicated on assembly. It really does have a unique trigger/firing pin release. When the slide comes back, the weapon is fully cocked, not like the Glock which is about half cocked. I think they are solid but maybe a little top heavy.

Good luck.
lcjones

[seed]

I don't think anyone has said it yet, however I am sure that at least Zekewolf knows (but forgot to mention) that the the third pin (which is steel, as Zekewolf pointed out) was put there because early proto-type .40 Glocks which did not have this pin developed cracks in the frame. After the pistol was designed with the third support pin, the problem went away. The third pin is not necessary for the 9mm, however as Zekewolf pointed out, it was put there for simplicity in manufacuturing of all pistol frames when the Third Gens were introduced.

On another note, one of the very best features of Glocks is how simple they are to detail strip and re-assemble. They are virtually idiot-proof. No gun comes close in that department. Any other gun will require more expertise to detail-strip and re-assemble, than the Glock. That said, criticising XD's for not being as idiot-proof as Glocks is unfair if you don't equally criticise other pistol designs. They too, have their idiosyncracies to which must be paid attention.

XD's are outstanding pistols, which have strengths and weaknesses...just like all pistol designs. The two things which honestly bug me about them are the possible breakage of unnecessary parts (i.e. loaded-chamber indicator and cocked-indicator) and the finish. Being that the breakage of these parts will not stop the gun from functioning when being used and being that I had my XD refinished by Mac, I no longer have these concerns.

With Glocks, there are also many concerns. One big one to me is that if I were to carry a Glock as a primary for a gun-carrying job, I would just about always want a back-up. The reason is that if that trigger-reset spring breaks, the gun is useless until it is replaced. This spring situation has just never set right with me. I don't like the NY triggers at all. So my only option is to replace the reset spring on a regular basis. Easy enough, however I don't like having to do it.

And that is just one imperfection in the design. Don't get me wrong: I really like Glocks and own five of them. But they are far from perfect.

So the "standards" Glocks have set to which XD's allegedly fail to live up to is BS. There are many more shortcomings in Glocks, where XD's shine and vice-versa (did I say that right?). Both designs are excellent, however neither is perfect. Just get the one you like and stop torturing those who chose differently. Or do what I did and get both.

[silverandgold]

Whether or not you decide to go buy an FN, or a Glock, XD, Beretta... It doesn't matter. Anyone who owns a different gun brand will find something wrong with yours.
I have an XD 9, and I can go find design flaws in berettas, Glocks, HKs, etc, etc...
I can put any gun together incorrectly and chances are, it won't work that way. Solution: Guns need to be assembled correctly to function correctly.
People who make this re-assembly issue a PROBLEM, are the people that should have it sent to a smith for internal work.
I can't take apart and re-assemble my computer from scratch. It must be a bad computer.

My XD 9 shoots every time I pull the trigger and it's extremely accurate.

[shooter429]

Does anyone believe that quality modern firearms (Polymer or steel) in good condition, using factory loaded ammo are likely to blow apart in one's face without cause? Cummon! What a load of :barf:

I can tell you that I have seen it happen once in my lifetime. And it was not polymer at all, but was actually a new 1911. I heard an awful explosion come from down the firing line a ways. When I got there, the guy was a mess. He was shaking like a leaf and asking for help. He actually went into shock. Mostly his hands and face were torn up and burned badly. Luckily he had safety glasses on at the time. We could see white skin in the shape of the goggles contrasted with all the blood around the cheeks, nose, forhead etc. He went away to the hospital. A tragedy to be sure.

What was the cause you ask. Well, it was not Colt's fault. When the RM asked what ammo he was using he said that it was some stuff a stranger had given him. Told him it was his own handloads. Anyway, I have no idea what kind of pressure it took to turn a steel 1911 into a grenade, but I bet it was at least a triple charge.

I actually made a mistake with .40 smith rounds once myself, though not my fault. The manual actually listed 10mm loading data on the line labeled .40. As always I load conservatively and started with the lowest listed charge. After loading some of these "light, lead practice loads" for my buddy, I sent him to the range and said "tell me how ya like em."

My buddy came back a couple hours later and said, "thought those were light practice loads." I said "yeah" Then he commented that those were awesome, and inquired how I got his .40 to shoot like a 10mm. I looked at the cases and they were all intact, but showing obvious signs ove pressure (at the primer). I rechecked the load data and it was fine. He invited me along to shoot his new Smith .40. I capped one off and it sure did feel and sound like a 10. I stopped him right there, took the ammo, and back at my lab I checked another book. Then I said something like "oh @#$%!" It felt like a 10mm load because it was! That was a starting load for a 10mm. I took them all apart and made a fresh batch using actual .40 data.

The gun never KBd or even missed a beat. As I recall that was a 30% overcharge. Yet no damage done. Though I quit using that loading data chart. Point is: Guns do not explode without a helluva lot of pressure.

I also saw a .22 rifle fire a squibb and then fire a round right behind it. It ruined the barrel-put a slight bulge in it. No KB though.

I think these stories are rare events caused by operator error, not by Springfield Armory or Glock or any other quality manufactered product. It makes for some good story telling though.

Don't buy into this BS. If you buy a Springfield or Glock, use standard pressure ammo and common sense, and your gun will not KB. I promise!

Now go have some fun at the range.

PS If anybody has firsthand experience with a KB please reply and tell me what you found to be true.

Shooter429

[Sarge]

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...2&postcount=15

[Aces]

Holy crap!! If I ever need a life as bad as some of you guys, I think I'll take one of my Glocks and use it on myself. Not the 23 though, I don't want it blowing up in my hand.
The FBI, and and a whole buttload of PD's around the country use the 40 glock, I've never heard anything about this problem. Nowhere but on the internet have I ever heard of this. Even the Glock haters I've talked to at the range or IDPA matches look at me as if I'm from outer space if I mention unsupported chambers or any such nonsense.
Yeah, I know kool aid drinker, blah, blah, blah. I actually like 1911's as well or better than Glocks. If I could actually find one that was at all reliable, I'd probably put the Glocks away.
My advice, buy what gun you like and go to the range, stay away from the internet. Or at least learn to filter out the pompous fools that need to impress with their "knowledge" of all things gun related.

[seed]

You know what Aces? You're probably right...

[orian3182]

I accidently put the slide back on with the disassembly lever not in the upward position and it caught the spring on the disassembly levar and wouldn't come back foward. After calling Springfield the gunsmith i spoke with copied what i did while he was on the phone with me and told me to give it a small hit on the back of the slide with a rubber mallet.

I did the same thing today. The only problem I'm having is the rubber mallett isn't getting the slide off. Im pounding the crap out of it too. I love my XD 45 GAP. I put at least 2000 rounds through it. Its my favorite gun to shoot and carry off duty. Any other suggestions?

[Hallucinator]

I've never heard this about an XD. I've got the .45 tactical and it is a fantastic gun. Sounds like a rumor some Glock extremist might circulate.

[seed]

Wow! I thought about how I hadn't seen this thread since August and then I looked again. It's been almost 2 1/2 years! I guess you took that "do a search" pet peave a lot of people have seriously.

It's been a while and maybe I'll look for it later, but rest assured there are threads detailing exactly how to deal with the problem. XDtalk is probably your best bet. Anyway, I have to go to bed, otherwise I would help you locate the threads. Good luck.

[Colt Delta Elite]

I've been considering buying one of these. Yesterday I read on John Farnham's site of a collegue of his who attended the XD Armorer's School. He said there were internal parts that can be put in backward, and there is no sign that anything is wrong until you go to fire it. Then, nothing works.

Exactly why I don't tear engine blocks apart -- but I still buy cars.

I agree it would be nice if parts would only fit 1 way. But to require a gun to be 'idiot-proof' is not a concern of mine, because I do not fall into that category and I don't allow my firearms to be handled by those that do.