357 vs 38 snubs?

[Conrad Miller]

Is it worth it to go up from 38+p snubbie to a 357 snubbie?

[ellsworthtoohey]

Doubtful, except the .357 snubs are stronger, making them better .38s.

[AC]

It just depends how badly you want the power and what you think of the blast. Snubbies are some of my favorite guns, but after having shot a couple of different .357 J frames I have no desire to own one. The blast is pretty ferocious and the recoil with heavier bullets is severe.

To me a 6 shot Detective Special makes more sense if one wants to move up from a 5 shot J frame.

One can't deny that the .357 strikes a substantially harder blow than Plus P .38 rounds from even the short barrels, though.

Another thing to look at is weight. An aluminum .38 S&W M642 weighs 16 oz. An exposed hammer all-steel Chiefs Special .38 weighs 19 oz. The .357s all tend to be heavier, even when built on the same frame, and you are glad they are when you touch one off, but the .38s drag your pocket less.

Along these same lines the .357 barrels are longer, hindering pocket carry slightly. I am speaking specifically about two inch J frames now. The 2" .38s from S&W always had 1 & 7/8 inch barrels. The two inch .357s are a tad over an actual two inches. This makes a difference in concealability in a pocket holster, depending on you pocket depth.

S&W recently standardized on one length J frame cylinder, long. This isn't much difference, but the guns are now all about one tenth to one eighth inch longer than the .38 versions used to be. This makes them slightly harder to hide in a pocket. I am nit picking a bit, but compare a short cylinder with 1 & 7/8" barrel to a long cylinder with a 2 & 1/8 (or whatever the actual .357 Smith barrels measure) and you will see it makes a difference in carryability.

[Conrad Miller]

Well, after seeing some of the numbers on 38+p and 357 125 gr. loads out of a Ruger Sp101 2", I'm not convinced it's worth 100 fps.

[AC]

Conrad,
It is a lot more than 100 fps. Most 125 gr Plus P .38 loads won't hit or barely break 900 fps from a 2". Full power .357s should reach at least 1200 fps from the same barrel length. Maybe the data you are referencing is for a "medium velocity" load that a couple of companies offer.

[longbow]

I carry on occasion a Rossi 2.5" .357 mod. 971. Bought it when they first came out. Granted most of the time I am carrying my CCO but for the times I carry the Rossi, I don't feel debilated by it one bit. It ain't a pocket gun but then again I don't like pocket
guns. I have yet to see a pocket gun that didn't print when walking no matter what the holster it is in. Seems to me it would be hard to draw too. Anyways I like the 125 grain Federal or Remington's too. I personally don't find the recoil or flash all that bad. I figure in a panic situation where you are actually gonna use it you won't notice it either. I have mine sighted in at 25 yds. so it shoots about 4". It is heavy though so a good iwb with an equally good belt or good belt slide with a belt is a must. One thing I have learned and that is not to skimp on quality carry gear. I also think that with a little practice and a high grip that the recoil will be very controllable. So I would say yes go up to the .357 but get a gun with a bit of weight to it or one of the new Taurus's in titanium.These are ported. Checked them out and they are nice! Keep'em sharp

[tackdriver]

I've been told that ported .357 snubbies are dangerous due to the blast if the gun is anywhere near a body part. Is this true?

[EchoFiveMike]

Well I guess it depends if you like getting sandblasted or not. Burns and jacket material are gonna hurt. Probably not too much pain against clothing but it's gonna tear up that clothing. Your call. Semper Fi...

[ellsworthtoohey]

I've done alot of shooting with both. My 640-1 has become a .38 spl. Shot placement and adequate penetration are the two most important factors in winning a gunfight. With a full powered .357 fired from a 25 oz. gun, accuracy is very poor out past about five yards. Caliber doesn't matter if you can't hit a vital organ, or if the projectile doesn't penetrate deeply enough to reach them, which is a real danger with 110 gr. JHPs when they actually expand.

I'll take a 158 gr. SWC which I can keep within the nine ring at 15 yards v. a 110 or 125 that I can barely keep within the torso at the same range.

[This message has been edited by ellsworthtoohey (edited February 26, 2000).]

[TEX'N]

I agree with ellsworthtoohey. I think most people, including me, have their hands full controlling a 2" J frame with 38 +P loads--especially in rapid fire follow-up shots, which is what you're going to have to be able to do if your use of the gun is going to be effective. I want as much power as I can get, especially if I only have 5 rounds, but a 357 in a 2 1/2" K frame is as small as I trust myself to use competently. Everybody I know who is carrying a 2" J 357 loads it with 38 +P's. Just my opinion. Tex'n.

[Gunslinger]

It depends on the context of the question as well. If comtemplating a new purchase then if you can find the .357 for about the same money than by all means invest in the .357 and simply shoot .38 loads if that suits you.
Personally, as I've mentioned in other threads to the chagrin of other members it seems , I prefer to use the "heaviest" caliber I can competently use. However as others had said, and accurately so, nothing will substitute for good shot placement.
Regarding the porting I find the "muzzle flash" distracting and frankly do not see that the porting assist in reducing the perceived recoil appreciatetively.

------------------
Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.

[ellsworthtoohey]

I'm with ya on the porting. A couple of years ago I spent a day on the range with a friend who had a S&W Performance Center Model 19 with a 3 inch ported barrel. I brought a late 1980s S&W Model 19 with a 4 inch barrel.

Both guns wore Uncle Mike's grips, mine, a square butt with boot grips, his a round butt with the covered backstrap. We shot each others guns using a variety of .38 & .357 loads, both reloads and factory.

I honestly could tell no difference in recoil between the two guns. The only difference I noticed was that the ported gun sounded different. Another big difference was that my factory gun had a much smoother action than his "custom" gun which cost three times more. But that's another story!

[dvc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ellsworthtoohey:
With a full powered .357 fired from a 25 oz. gun, accuracy is very poor out past about five yards.[/quote]


Then why does my Ruger SP101 .357 with 2 1/4inch barrel print 3 1/2inch groups at 25 yards with full power Federal 125gr. JHP?

[ellsworthtoohey]

Are you sure that its not 3 1/2 feet? I suggest that you use a standard ruler when measuring your groups.

[Oleg Volk]

Folks, play nice.

[ellsworthtoohey]

DVC really, PPC shooters used to sink small fortunes into 6 inch bullbarreled, tricked out S&W Model 10s in an effort to shoot groups that small at that range with a revolver. Your Ruger may very well be capable of that kind of accracy; if you clamp it down in a Ransome Rest. I will guarantee you that you will not be shooting 3 1/5 inch groups at FIVE yards, with any gun including a .22 when, your life is in danger and you are shooting to live.

[denfoote]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tackdriver:
I've been told that ported .357 snubbies are dangerous due to the blast if the gun is anywhere near a body part. Is this true?[/quote]

I had my Taurus M605 .357 snub factory ported due to the fact that the damn thing BIT me!!!!! Shooting full house .357 loads, (why else would you want a .357)the recoil chewed up the webbing of my shooting hand so bad that I had to end the session, to go home to get patched up!!! Now that it is ported, I have been shooting it safely with absolutely no problems for some time now. I have no problem with carrying it, or using it.

------------------
Just as there is no such thing as too much fun,
there is no such thing as owning just one gun!!!

Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!

[This message has been edited by denfoote (edited February 28, 2000).]

[dvc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ellsworthtoohey:
Your Ruger may very well be capable of that kind of accracy; if you clamp it down in a Ransome Rest. I will guarantee you that you will not be shooting 3 1/5 inch groups at FIVE yards, with any gun including a .22 when, your life is in danger and you are shooting to live. [/quote]

Sounds like you're one of those old farts that loves to tell old wives tales about guns. "you cant hit the side of a barn with one of them there snub nosed three fifty seven revolvers."

Maybe you should try benchresting a snub nosed .357 at 25 yards. Do you even own
a .357 snub?

Doubt their combat accuracy? Guess you've never heard of Jim Cirillo...

[Oleg Volk]

How about empirical testing? Try ranson-rested groups and off-hand groups and report results...and skip the insults, eh? ;-)

[ellsworthtoohey]

Okay darlin, you win. A Ruger SP 101 will shoot 31/2 inch groups at 25 yards with 125 gr. magnum loads. Great shooting. Keep up the good work!

[jeffelkins]

I can't speak for 25 yard distances. But today my wife was getting consistent three inch groups with her Ruger SP101 at seven yards. I'd think the gun would be up to the task, if the pistolero is...