Bored with 1911's and Plastic Guns...

[Skans]

Originally Posted by BillM

Laugo Alien is a fairly "new" 9mm design.

Yes, I agree, the Alien is a good new design. Expensive, but at least not another over-priced 1911.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

Yes, Glock thinks mighty highly of itself. Self proclaimed titles/mottos/ad slogans are exactly that.

Where can you go from perfect? Ask Glock. They keep changing their 'perfect' guns, indicating that maybe they weren't perfect after all.

“Perfection” is pretty strong. But it’s not uncommon for companies to have similar slogans:

HK - No Compromise
SIG Sauer - To Hell and Back, When it Counts
Daniel Defense - Lighter. Stronger. Better.
Staccato - Built for Heroes

I own a Staccato and even I cringe at their slogan.

[Skans]

Originally Posted by Nathan

What are you wanting? I think the problem is there isn’t major ground left to cover in mechanical fire based projectile launchers.

How about....
S&W all stainless double-stack 10mm
Blued Steel version of the HK USP Expert
CZ 75B 10mm
American made version of the HK P7's

I don't know beyond that - I know these are just "variations". If I were a brilliant gun designer, people would be paying $2K for the SKAn S Pro 2Q 11mm handgun.

[Skans]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

I take it your not a fan of the EAA witness?

Actually, I am. I have a Witness Stock 10mm (original Stock). I love this gun, and while I don't shoot it as much as my X-Five 9mm, its my #2 for trigger time.

[wild cat mccane]

I think CZ has price going for them for parts. Patriot Defense seems to be as responsive as Canjun Gun Works.

Tanfoglio has going for it a drop safety block that the CZs don't have.

While the trigger is better on the CZ, absolutely no difference to me in accuracy in my Shadow 2s and my Stock Master (a Stock III frame, updated slide).

Shadow frame is rounded more.

Tanfoglio trigger is super curved. I hated it in dry fire, but on live it's great.

Hello set screw in the Tanfoglio (stock):

The Tanfoglio frame is way more comfortable at then tang. I have small hands, so I know others know what I mean that the Shadow frame is too narrow right at the tang and your web doesn't actually contact the frame at the undercut.

CZ moved their new Tactical Sport 2 Orange to a bull barrel, something that is stock on all the Tanfoglio Defiant frames.

Tanfoglio comes chromed, a $500 job Cajun or Fords on a full Shadow. I think hard chrome is the best finish a gun can have.

You can not like it, but I think the internet talk is way over stated on quality differences. Different, but on target, I can't tell a difference. I agree the Shadow is kinda better, but on target, I don't see it.





That said, the Tanfoglio and CZ are just similar. Like the OP is saying, there aren't many terribly "new."

If you can hold first, an interesting one is the pardini GT9. I think hold it first though. It's boxy. Mag prices are just stupid insanity.

[wild cat mccane]

I don't love everything about it, but Sig does call it the most accurate 9mm gun made. I think they probably aren't overly dramatic, even if they are wrong.

I have thought over and over to move mine, but I think it's like the S&W 41 in 22lr. It's got some downsides and is pricey, but generally it's regarded as on the shelf for best 22lr. I think the P210 is that for 9mm.

There are 9mm 1911s that are nice, there is the CZ Tactical Sport, there are the X-Fives...but the P210 is uniquely "different" for consideration if you're looking for target shooting.

[wild cat mccane]

I think the Shadow 2 Single Action Only is probably the best deal on the market right now for a 9mm. It recently went up, but was also super wicked cheaper for months a while ago. Got mine for $800 at normal pricing at the time. What a deal.

Mine has significantly less pull weight than my S2 SA/DA. Trigger is metal unlike the CZ Tactical Sport 2 Blue, trigger has grip unlike the S2 SA/DA. Updated frame of the S2 unlike the TS2. The S2 Orange while claimed nice, the Single Action Only doesn't have the DA guts to content with.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I think the Shadow 2 Single Action Only is probably the best deal on the market right now for a 9mm. It recently went up, but was also super wicked cheaper for months a while ago. Got mine for $800 at normal pricing at the time. What a deal.

Mine has significantly less pull weight than my S2 SA/DA. Trigger is metal unlike the CZ Tactical Sport 2 Blue, trigger has grip unlike the S2 SA/DA. Updated frame of the S2 unlike the TS2. The S2 Orange while claimed nice, the Single Action Only doesn't have the DA guts to content with.

You mention having smaller hands. I do too, and I find the safety on the Shadow 2 SAO less than ideal. How does it work for you?

[wild cat mccane]

I don't care for single actions. I don't care for them because of the safety.

I don't like the Shadow 2 safety. It doesn't click all that great, it's not intuitively there for my hand.

Not a deal breaker, because I frankly don't like any safety. Not for the purpose but bc of placement.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I don't care for single actions. I don't care for them because of the safety.

I don't like the Shadow 2 safety. It doesn't click all that great, it's not intuitively there for my hand.

Not a deal breaker, because I frankly don't like any safety. Not for the purpose but bc of placement.

So when you shoot the Shadow 2 SAO do you not use the safety, or do you just rotate the grip in your hand to get to it?

[wild cat mccane]

I'm a frequent range shooter but never have done a competition and I don't like doing fast movements with guns. Just not my enjoyment to fiddle.

So I haven't thought about it! Just pulled it out. I don't know. It's not my favorite movement. I don't break the grip, but the grip pressure does change?

It's not super comfy, but I don't like any safety for that. I don't like the P210 shelf either, but I can see why someone would.

Another thing for small hands. I've read trigger reach is long, though the S2 I've read improves the reach? With my short hands, it's not bad on my S2 or S2 SAO. It's on maximum side for the S2. But I think the bigger problem is the S2 trigger is too thin and smooth. The serrations on the S2 SAO are infinity better than the chrome polish smooth S2 trigger--for me. I notice that way more than the placement. Something I don't often see mentioned ever, but it's like a huge difference for me. It's not the shape, it's the serrations.

[wild cat mccane]

No. I take it back. I don't like it at all. It's pretty uncomfy to flip straight from drawn to fire.

Since I don't do comps, I've never even thought about it until now.

[TunnelRat]

I don’t know that you have to shoot competitively in order to regularly use the safety on a SAO pistol, but I think I get your point. Sounds like you just generally don’t bother with engaging the safety when you are shooting. Fair enough.

For me how much I do or don’t like the safety on a SAO pistol plays a big part in whether I like that pistol on the whole. The safety placement on the CZ 75 style pistols doesn’t work that well for me. The Shadow 2 frame and its thinner grips do generally work better for me than the standard 75.

[wild cat mccane]

Yes. Exactly.

I meant to say since I don't actively train for competition with the S2, the safety is an after thought, not an important part under pressure.

[jar]

[wild cat mccane]

If I liked 10mm (I don't) and didn't want a cheap 10mm 1911 or a polymer, I don't know why this wouldn't scratch my itch:

https://gun.deals/product/tanfoglio-...-sights-143998

13rnd version:
https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_.../8051770134305

But again, same remix of old CZ design.

[bac1023]

IFG BRNO?

CZ 75 design

[Nick_C_S]

Might I suggest revolvers. Seriously. More fun (and challenging) to shoot; and, if you load your own ammo - more fun (and choices) there too.

That said, I'd like to see a large steel framed 10mm - something Desert Eagle kinda hefty.

[JustJake]

PLEASE someone come up with a new metal-frame 9mm or 10mm design!

Well, S&W’s 3rd Gen 10mm 10XX-series guns were a thing once. Maybe for you the old can be *new* again?

Off GB, I just scored a minty model 1066 (4.25”, DA/SA, single-stack 9+1 capacity). Came with two 9-rd mags with white followers. It has the default 3-dot Novak ski-jumps, but those will be replaced with Trijicon’s tritium sights. Will also upgrade the various factory springs with Wolff XPs.

Once I’ve vetted it over 500-rds with real 10mm ammo, it’ll go into the carry rotation.

So a “Commander”-size, all-steel, 10mm blaster with a 10-rd load-out = happy me.

[The Happy kaboomer]

Single actions in multitudes of shape/size/caliber and barrel lengths.

[FITASC]

PLEASE someone come up with a new metal-frame 9mm or 10mm design!

There's always going backwards a tad to the HK P7; that squeeze cocker is unique among semis and it is very accurate with its fixed barrel

[44 AMP]

There's always going backwards a tad to the HK P7; that squeeze cocker is unique among semis and it is very accurate with its fixed barrel

From what I heard, they got quite hot, pretty quick.

There are lots of old designs that are no longer in production, and the reason why isn't that they didn't work, but because they didn't keep selling well enough.

PLEASE someone come up with a new metal-frame 9mm or 10mm design!

A completely new design with a metal frame faces a struggle to be commercially successful these days. Few buyers want the "best" designed and made gun, they want good enough at the cheapest price.

There's a fellow out there that will make you a metal frame Luger in 10mm. I believe his asking price is about $8000, for the base model.

would that scratch your itch??

[wild cat mccane]

I think there is a market for all the manufacturers to have a Shadow 2 competitor.

Current competitions CZ cites for the Shadow build purpose don't allow for half hammer CZ reset (has to be full down), and the Shadow 2 doesn't have a firing pin block. Yet, a lighter weight Shadow 2 compact seems to be enjoying popularity. It makes almost no sense because it's the worst of all worlds. It's light, but still very big. It's not drop/decocking safe. It's still not competition hammer down safe. Perfect combination of everything wrong for competition and for carry. Proves people want something in this group.

So I think there is a market for a return of more P226 ss X-Five, Six, Short, a Walther hammer steel, an HK steel Expert, a return of a Champion S&W...not just metal versions of their polymers. True new designs.

It wouldn't sell like the polymers, but everyone seems to me to be conceding money on the table with the Shadow which doesn't have everything perfect.

I think the OP is right. There's demand for something new.

[orionengnr]

Smith & Wesson revolvers are an entirely different and fascinating genre of handguns.

I love 1911s, always have and always will. I have owned 1911s in different chamberings, but really, only .45acp satisfies. And of the different frame and slide sizes, I'm pretty much set on alloy-framed Commander sized 1911s. (Just me, YMMV.)

When it comes to S&W revolvers, there is such a variety of frame sizes, barrel lengths, calibers and chamberings...I will probably never experience all of them.

So at this point, I'm happy with just a handful of 1911s, but am still finding S&W revolvers that I am interested in.

Have a look.

[Skans]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I think CZ has price going for them for parts. Patriot Defense seems to be as responsive as Canjun Gun Works.

Tanfoglio has going for it a drop safety block that the CZs don't have.

While the trigger is better on the CZ, absolutely no difference to me in accuracy in my Shadow 2s and my Stock Master (a Stock III frame, updated slide).

Shadow frame is rounded more.

Tanfoglio trigger is super curved. I hated it in dry fire, but on live it's great.

Hello set screw in the Tanfoglio (stock):

The Tanfoglio frame is way more comfortable at then tang. I have small hands, so I know others know what I mean that the Shadow frame is too narrow right at the tang and your web doesn't actually contact the frame at the undercut.

CZ moved their new Tactical Sport 2 Orange to a bull barrel, something that is stock on all the Tanfoglio Defiant frames.

Tanfoglio comes chromed, a $500 job Cajun or Fords on a full Shadow. I think hard chrome is the best finish a gun can have.

You can not like it, but I think the internet talk is way over stated on quality differences. Different, but on target, I can't tell a difference. I agree the Shadow is kinda better, but on target, I don't see it.





That said, the Tanfoglio and CZ are just similar. Like the OP is saying, there aren't many terribly "new."

If you can hold first, an interesting one is the pardini GT9. I think hold it first though. It's boxy. Mag prices are just stupid insanity.

The upper end Tanfoglio Witness guns are some of my favorite. Yes, the hard chrome finish on it is much more scratch resistant than stainless steel, and I think it looks great. My Stock 10mm has an excellent trigger. Compared to my CZ 75B, the Tanfoglio trigger is much better - mainly because it doesn't "cam" the hammer like the stock CZ does. Both CZ and Tanfoglio triggers can be improved, but I've never found a need to modify the Tanfoglio. Also, love the fiber-optic sight on the Stock.