Trijicon or Ashley?

Sisco · October 24, 2001, 11:18 PM

I'd like some opinions from users of these sights. I'll be mounting it on a Ruger SP101 (fixed rear) that will be used for home defense and as a trail gun.

jnixp · October 25, 2001, 12:39 AM

I tried a set of Ashley's on my Kahr 40.I hated them.So did about a dozen shooters who tried my gun.The main thing we didn't like is the way the Ashley uses a "V-Notch" which we found very hard to provide a repeatable sight picture.When I shot it slow and carefully,the gun shot great.But when I tried it shooting fast,it was hard to shoot accurately past about 10 yards.In order to shoot the Ashley's accurately,you have to "stack" the dot over the bar,like a lolipop.It sounds easy,but its very difficult if you are trying to shoot both fast,and accurately.I finally installed a set of Novacks, and my Kahr shoots like a totally different gun.For me,it turned out to be an expensive mistake,(appox. $150.00 for the tritium bar/dot sights/installation).I'd reccomend the Trijicons,unless you get the chance to shoot a gun with Ashleys on them and decide for yourself if you like them.:barf:

AndABeer · October 25, 2001, 12:40 AM

I just put a set of Ashley's on my SA Ultra Compact tonight. I already had a set on my Kimber Gold Match. They took some getting used to but I like them. Trijis may be better for slow fire target work as it will be easier to get the three dots to align or the rear and the front post flush but Ashleys will work with practice. Mostly it is personal preference as to whether you want a traditional three dot or if you wanna "dot the i".

Sisco · October 25, 2001, 12:48 AM

You guys using the Big Dot or the standard? I've never even seen one, but the Big Dot has ben described as being like a golf ball at the end of the muzzle.
I have read other posts that said the Ashley was better in daylight due to the white ring around the tritium center.
The rear sight on the SP101 is a notch in the topstrap so sight alingnment will be different that with the traditional two-dot rear.

AndABeer · October 25, 2001, 01:05 AM

I got a standard on my Kimber and the Big Dot on my Springfield. The Big Dot is an attention grabber but that is the whole point. The standard catches the eye just fine though. You probably already know that the tritium part of the sight is the same size on both versions it is only the white plastic outer ring that is larger.

blades67 · October 25, 2001, 02:13 AM

You need to try them for your self.

jnixp wasn't able to use them with any speed after using them a few times and decided the sights were the problem.

All of my SIG Sauer pistols have the von Stavenhagen (bar/dot) sights and I find them to be faster than three dot sights.

Only you can find that which works best for you.

Sisco · October 25, 2001, 03:15 AM

Trying before buying would be ideal, except there are no stocking dealers in my area, I'll have to mail order them.

WESHOOT2 · October 25, 2001, 05:53 AM

Like the Ashley front (but I'd use a ghost ring or notch rear).

CWL · October 25, 2001, 06:08 PM

I'm going to get some Ashleys for a new Kahr K9 simply because I've never used them before and think that the Big Dots would work fine for 10-15 yard quick defensive shooting.

Jim March · October 25, 2001, 10:50 PM

First off, he's ONLY changing the front sight so if you don't like the Express rear, that's not an issue here. We're only discussing fronts.

I would go with the Ashley small dot tritium, at least on an SP101. You want something fairly low-slung, so it'll fit into the smallish rear notch - the factory front is quite short. And because the sight radius isn't going to be very long, I don't think you want the front to totally overwhelm the rear the way the big dot might..

I'd also paint the rear notch outline in orange or red, but otherwise leave it unmodified.

dawg23 · October 25, 2001, 10:51 PM

15 yard defensive shooting ?? That could get you into court and/or prison around here.

jnixp · October 25, 2001, 10:57 PM

I didn't try the Ashley sites a "few times" I ran about 600 rounds through it.I've taken enough classes (gunsite,etc.) To know what works for me.All I can say is after I removed the Ashley's,mine and about 3 other shooters accuracy during speed drills (El Presidente, failure drills,timed head shots at 10+ yards) improved by leaps and bounds.I thought I made it clear that a person needs to try something as different as the Ashley's in order to know for sure,but I based my opinion on hundreds of rounds of shooting.And if it sounds like" scapegoating", so be it.

Jim March · October 26, 2001, 12:21 AM

Jnixp: are you complaining about the front dot, or the rear shallow "V" express sight?

Ranting without mentioning that isn't helping.

jnixp · October 26, 2001, 01:01 AM

It was both the V notch and the dot.Unlike almost any other type of sights,whether its a 3-dot,bar-dot,or a standard target type,you always have a referance when you align the front blade with the rear blade,that being the alignment of the front sight blade as it "sits" in the rear notch.You always have the relative heights of both the rear blade and the front blade to tell you your elevation is right.The problem I and several other shooters had is that since it has a "V" notch,your elevation will vary according to how you stack that dot.When you have the time to get a good sight picture,it works as good as anything.My problem is with trying to shoot it as fast as I shot my Heinie's,Novacks,or MMC's.If I didn't stack that dot perfectly,my elevation would always be off.I found the Kahr to be super accurate,and for me,It was much harder to utilize that accuracy with the Ashley's.

Sisco · October 26, 2001, 02:12 AM

Thanks for the input, lots of opinions on the Ashleys, no one uses the Trijicons?
Any suggested web sites to buy the Ashley sites (besides AshleyOutdoors)?

AndABeer · October 26, 2001, 03:40 PM

Just back from the range with the new Ashleys on my Springfield. It shot way way low. Called Ashley. Smith told me what to do at the range so that he would know which sight to send me as a swap out. Apparently Springfield was full of it when they said the 9mm took the same sight as the .45. Great customer service for a problem that was not their fault.

cma g21 · October 26, 2001, 04:09 PM

I have Trijicons on my G21 and AO Big Dot Tritiums on my G27.

I find the Trijicons more precise (especially past 25'), but the AO Big Dots faster.

FWIW, I'll be putting AO Big Dot Tritiums on my G23.

Hellequin · October 26, 2001, 07:30 PM

TRIJICON RULES!!

Bill Daniel · October 26, 2001, 09:30 PM

I have Ashley Pro Express standard dot sights on my Kimber Compact they are fast to acquire but not a target sight. Great at 15 yards but not at 25 for me.
All the best,
Bill Daniel
Life Member NRA

Sisco · October 26, 2001, 10:31 PM

Hellequin, can you elaborate?

brionic · November 4, 2001, 12:07 AM

Well I'm not satisfied with my Trijicons. I realized today that the the dots are misaligned to the heights of the front and rear sights.

When aligning the dots, the top front sight is lower than the rear. No wonder I was shooting low. (At least my PP shooting is not ALL due to crappy marksmanship!) I'll take the pistol in to King's, but I'm concerned that the any heat used in "building" up the front sight will burst the dot capsule.

How could a "matched" set, specific to my weapon, be so poorly matched?

Blacked out the dots to finish the course today, and I'll check into my options next week. I'm intrigued by the Ashley system.

OF · November 4, 2001, 01:14 AM

My experience with the Ashley sights is the opposite of jnixp's.

I'm using the normal dot tritium front with the non-tritium rear on a Glock M29. A friend (with an identical gun) shot an El Presidente with his gun, then mine immediately after and his groups tightened on a faster time. With the 29, I can pick clays off a dirt bank at 30 yards without any trouble...so the long-range accuracy as a defensive pistol sight does not seem to be a practical issue for me.

They are not for everyone, but I'm very pleased and I find the Ashley's superior to standard notch sights in theory and practice (again, for me).

So, YMMV. Try 'em out if you can!

- Gabe

Onslaught · November 4, 2001, 04:20 AM

If you're just going to replace the front sight, I'd use Trij or Mepros.

I have a Kahr P40, and have recently put a Mepro front, while keeping the rear "VonStavenhagen-whosits" rear type. Wish somebody made THAT type of sight for other pistols. Best of both worlds (for me). Dot the i type sight, but with the standard notch for accuracy work.

November 5, 2001, 03:34 AM

Quote:

That could get you into court and/or prison around here.

"Where I live, if you shoot someone out past 15 yards and you're going to prision, pal. Can't tell you where I live, though."

Come on, where is this awful place, California?

It's 15 yards from one end of my front hall to the other by the front door. Can't tell you the address of the house though.

October 24, 2001, 11:18 PM	#1
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	Trijicon or Ashley? I'd like some opinions from users of these sights. I'll be mounting it on a Ruger SP101 (fixed rear) that will be used for home defense and as a trail gun. __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

October 25, 2001, 12:40 AM	#3
AndABeer Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2000 Location: Lakeland, TN Posts: 1,622	I just put a set of Ashley's on my SA Ultra Compact tonight. I already had a set on my Kimber Gold Match. They took some getting used to but I like them. Trijis may be better for slow fire target work as it will be easier to get the three dots to align or the rear and the front post flush but Ashleys will work with practice. Mostly it is personal preference as to whether you want a traditional three dot or if you wanna "dot the i". __________________ "The key is to not pull the trigger but to squeeze it." Evil Emporer Zurg "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." Unknown

October 25, 2001, 12:48 AM	#4
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	You guys using the Big Dot or the standard? I've never even seen one, but the Big Dot has ben described as being like a golf ball at the end of the muzzle. I have read other posts that said the Ashley was better in daylight due to the white ring around the tritium center. The rear sight on the SP101 is a notch in the topstrap so sight alingnment will be different that with the traditional two-dot rear. __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

October 25, 2001, 01:05 AM	#5
AndABeer Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2000 Location: Lakeland, TN Posts: 1,622	I got a standard on my Kimber and the Big Dot on my Springfield. The Big Dot is an attention grabber but that is the whole point. The standard catches the eye just fine though. You probably already know that the tritium part of the sight is the same size on both versions it is only the white plastic outer ring that is larger. __________________ "The key is to not pull the trigger but to squeeze it." Evil Emporer Zurg "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." Unknown

October 25, 2001, 02:13 AM	#6
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,014	You need to try them for your self. jnixp wasn't able to use them with any speed after using them a few times and decided the sights were the problem. All of my SIG Sauer pistols have the von Stavenhagen (bar/dot) sights and I find them to be faster than three dot sights. Only you can find that which works best for you. __________________ Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat! I hunt, therefore I am.

October 25, 2001, 12:39 AM	#2
jnixp Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: san francisco,ca. us Posts: 34	I tried a set of Ashley's on my Kahr 40.I hated them.So did about a dozen shooters who tried my gun.The main thing we didn't like is the way the Ashley uses a "V-Notch" which we found very hard to provide a repeatable sight picture.When I shot it slow and carefully,the gun shot great.But when I tried it shooting fast,it was hard to shoot accurately past about 10 yards.In order to shoot the Ashley's accurately,you have to "stack" the dot over the bar,like a lolipop.It sounds easy,but its very difficult if you are trying to shoot both fast,and accurately.I finally installed a set of Novacks, and my Kahr shoots like a totally different gun.For me,it turned out to be an expensive mistake,(appox. $150.00 for the tritium bar/dot sights/installation).I'd reccomend the Trijicons,unless you get the chance to shoot a gun with Ashleys on them and decide for yourself if you like them.:barf:

October 25, 2001, 03:15 AM	#7
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	Trying before buying would be ideal, except there are no stocking dealers in my area, I'll have to mail order them. __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

October 25, 2001, 05:53 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Like the Ashley front (but I'd use a ghost ring or notch rear). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

October 25, 2001, 06:08 PM	#9
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	I'm going to get some Ashleys for a new Kahr K9 simply because I've never used them before and think that the Big Dots would work fine for 10-15 yard quick defensive shooting.

October 25, 2001, 10:50 PM	#10
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	First off, he's ONLY changing the front sight so if you don't like the Express rear, that's not an issue here. We're only discussing fronts. I would go with the Ashley small dot tritium, at least on an SP101. You want something fairly low-slung, so it'll fit into the smallish rear notch - the factory front is quite short. And because the sight radius isn't going to be very long, I don't think you want the front to totally overwhelm the rear the way the big dot might.. I'd also paint the rear notch outline in orange or red, but otherwise leave it unmodified. __________________ Jim March

October 25, 2001, 10:51 PM	#11
dawg23 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2001 Location: Louisiana Posts: 403	15 yard defensive shooting ?? That could get you into court and/or prison around here.

October 25, 2001, 10:57 PM	#12
jnixp Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: san francisco,ca. us Posts: 34	I didn't try the Ashley sites a "few times" I ran about 600 rounds through it.I've taken enough classes (gunsite,etc.) To know what works for me.All I can say is after I removed the Ashley's,mine and about 3 other shooters accuracy during speed drills (El Presidente, failure drills,timed head shots at 10+ yards) improved by leaps and bounds.I thought I made it clear that a person needs to try something as different as the Ashley's in order to know for sure,but I based my opinion on hundreds of rounds of shooting.And if it sounds like" scapegoating", so be it.

October 26, 2001, 12:21 AM	#13
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Jnixp: are you complaining about the front dot, or the rear shallow "V" express sight? Ranting without mentioning that isn't helping. __________________ Jim March

October 26, 2001, 01:01 AM	#14
jnixp Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: san francisco,ca. us Posts: 34	It was both the V notch and the dot.Unlike almost any other type of sights,whether its a 3-dot,bar-dot,or a standard target type,you always have a referance when you align the front blade with the rear blade,that being the alignment of the front sight blade as it "sits" in the rear notch.You always have the relative heights of both the rear blade and the front blade to tell you your elevation is right.The problem I and several other shooters had is that since it has a "V" notch,your elevation will vary according to how you stack that dot.When you have the time to get a good sight picture,it works as good as anything.My problem is with trying to shoot it as fast as I shot my Heinie's,Novacks,or MMC's.If I didn't stack that dot perfectly,my elevation would always be off.I found the Kahr to be super accurate,and for me,It was much harder to utilize that accuracy with the Ashley's.

October 26, 2001, 02:12 AM	#15
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	Thanks for the input, lots of opinions on the Ashleys, no one uses the Trijicons? Any suggested web sites to buy the Ashley sites (besides AshleyOutdoors)? __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

October 26, 2001, 03:40 PM	#16
AndABeer Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2000 Location: Lakeland, TN Posts: 1,622	Just back from the range with the new Ashleys on my Springfield. It shot way way low. Called Ashley. Smith told me what to do at the range so that he would know which sight to send me as a swap out. Apparently Springfield was full of it when they said the 9mm took the same sight as the .45. Great customer service for a problem that was not their fault. __________________ "The key is to not pull the trigger but to squeeze it." Evil Emporer Zurg "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." Unknown

October 26, 2001, 04:09 PM	#17
cma g21 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 134	I have Trijicons on my G21 and AO Big Dot Tritiums on my G27. I find the Trijicons more precise (especially past 25'), but the AO Big Dots faster. FWIW, I'll be putting AO Big Dot Tritiums on my G23.

October 26, 2001, 07:30 PM	#18
Hellequin Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2001 Location: Caracas Posts: 137	TRIJICON RULES!! __________________ - Stay safe -

October 26, 2001, 09:30 PM	#19
Bill Daniel Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Location: Bowling Green, KY. Posts: 518	I have Ashley Pro Express standard dot sights on my Kimber Compact they are fast to acquire but not a target sight. Great at 15 yards but not at 25 for me. All the best, Bill Daniel Life Member NRA __________________ Prosecute criminals to the fullest extent of the law and their weapons will become harmless. "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt 1903

October 26, 2001, 10:31 PM	#20
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	Hellequin, can you elaborate? __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

November 4, 2001, 12:07 AM	#21
brionic Member Join Date: July 14, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 87	Well I'm not satisfied with my Trijicons. I realized today that the the dots are misaligned to the heights of the front and rear sights. When aligning the dots, the top front sight is lower than the rear. No wonder I was shooting low. (At least my PP shooting is not ALL due to crappy marksmanship!) I'll take the pistol in to King's, but I'm concerned that the any heat used in "building" up the front sight will burst the dot capsule. How could a "matched" set, specific to my weapon, be so poorly matched? Blacked out the dots to finish the course today, and I'll check into my options next week. I'm intrigued by the Ashley system.

November 4, 2001, 01:14 AM	#22
OF Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2000 Posts: 2,239	My experience with the Ashley sights is the opposite of jnixp's. I'm using the normal dot tritium front with the non-tritium rear on a Glock M29. A friend (with an identical gun) shot an El Presidente with his gun, then mine immediately after and his groups tightened on a faster time. With the 29, I can pick clays off a dirt bank at 30 yards without any trouble...so the long-range accuracy as a defensive pistol sight does not seem to be a practical issue for me. They are not for everyone, but I'm very pleased and I find the Ashley's superior to standard notch sights in theory and practice (again, for me). So, YMMV. Try 'em out if you can! - Gabe

November 4, 2001, 04:20 AM	#23
Onslaught Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,749	If you're just going to replace the front sight, I'd use Trij or Mepros. I have a Kahr P40, and have recently put a Mepro front, while keeping the rear "VonStavenhagen-whosits" rear type. Wish somebody made THAT type of sight for other pistols. Best of both worlds (for me). Dot the i type sight, but with the standard notch for accuracy work. __________________ Yes Rico... KaBOOM!