Stupid to die or go to prison over pieces of metal and plastic and wood - Page 4

Any .45 · October 1, 2004, 04:35 PM

I respect what all of you say and how you feel about this. But wars are not fought by men without families and all though this is not a war, something like this can happen, all it takes is that one man or woman with that will not release they're arms to the Gov't gets arrested or worse and boom it starts, there goes everyones freedom.

One can not say what they will do when push comes to shove, but I do know this, one man alone can not win the battle, muchless win the war, but one man can start a revolution. So the day that they do take our arms thats the day we lost our freedom, because we can't fight wars with sticks and stones. This is why we do what we all do, and that is take part in wonderful forums like this speek our minds and stick together.

With all respect,

Any .45

Powderman · October 1, 2004, 04:56 PM

lilysdad, I think you are mistaken.

For the reasons you wrote--indeed, for the devotion you demonstrate for your daughter--I believe that you and others like you (and me) will be some of the FIRST to take up arms to defend this Nation. For, in defending our country, you ARE defending your family and the people you love.

And, God forbid, if the time comes, people like us will do so with a flame and intensity that has not been seen in this country since the days of the Revolutionary War.

Oh, and for the rest of the folks: I also want to let you know that if the call comes to go door-to-door, I will be there. But, I won't be confiscating guns.

I will be one of the people waiting for the confiscators. As will a LOT of other cops I know.

And, I will be in uniform. But, it won't be a police uniform. In a garment bag in my closet, there's an old set of BDU's, with Staff Sergeant's stripes on the collar. They still fit.

These words come to mind....

"I...do solemnly swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic....

LET FREEDOM RING!

45 Long Colt · October 1, 2004, 08:27 PM

Flames? You told the simple truth. So did Dennis. And no man can know with absolute certainty how he will meet any particular test until he's been there.

No flames here. And you're too thoughtful to call yourself rookie.

readyfire · October 1, 2004, 09:59 PM

Dennis,you are a true patriot.I will keep your words close.And if the day ever comes id stand with any of you gents any day!I wont hand my freedom over without a fight,kids or not,it would be a fight to be part of as our kids need to grow up in a free America.I would gladly fight or even die securing freedom for our children and the freedom of future americans.Dennis i hope you dont mind but i printed out your metal and wood speech and will show it to friends,for it is by far the most beautifully written patriotic statement ive seen in a long time.Youve brought hope back to me in these times when i feel so alone in my patriotism.God bless you sir!!!!!

Quartus · October 2, 2004, 09:37 AM

Quote:

I will be one of the people waiting for the confiscators. As will a LOT of other cops I know.

STANDING OVATION, SIR!

We need more like you!

FirstFreedom · October 4, 2004, 02:37 PM

Thank you Dennis - outstanding, sir!

ghillieman · October 4, 2004, 09:27 PM

dennis will you run for president? ghillieman.......

Don Gwinn · October 7, 2004, 02:15 PM

Well, I don't get there much anymore (and by "there," I mean of course, the Year of Our Lord 2002) but I'll keep that in mind, Sandy.

Brick · October 7, 2004, 09:47 PM

Dennis,

Excellent. Bullseye. Couldn't be explained better.

Too bad I can't express and write that way!

Quote:

And, I will be in uniform. But, it won't be a police uniform. In a garment bag in my closet, there's an old set of BDU's, with Staff Sergeant's stripes on the collar. They still fit.

We need a "patriot uniform"!

Ironbarr · October 8, 2004, 09:02 AM

No 3-cornered hat, please.....

.

My head is a cube

glock19xdsc · January 2, 2007, 08:07 PM

Time for a resurrection.

Great thread!

Ruger4570 · January 3, 2007, 01:32 AM

I totally agree, we all need to read this again and...... think about it

Al Norris · January 3, 2007, 01:43 AM

Yes it is.

Back in the first Iraq war, a young man from Rupert was killed. He died, fully believing in what he was doing.

To honor his memory, a couple that knew him well, started the Andrew Moeller Tournament. It is a basketball tourney held each year here in Rupert. Any Catholic parish youth in the Diocese of Boise is eligible to come and play. As well, a scholarship was setup from the proceeds of this tourney.

At the Tenth anniversary of the Tournament, in 2002, our Bishop presided at the opening ceremony in the newly built Kings Fine Arts Theater in Burley (the tournament had grown too large to be played in just Rupert. It now occupies every basketball court in 2 counties for the weekend it is held).

At that assembly, dignitaries ranging from Andrew's Commanding Officer, His Commanding General, Our Governor and several others from DC, were there to commemorate both SP4 Moeller and the tournament itself. At that time, the couple that started this whole thing got up and read Metal and Wood to the entire audience.

When it was done, there was not a dry eye in the theater. The Military stood at attention and saluted the reader.

I relate this tale now, because in the 2007 tournament in February, the 15th anniversary, Metal and Wood will be read again.

Dennis, that salute was yours.

Mikeyboy · January 3, 2007, 12:23 PM

I’m another odd man out here. I believe in the 2nd amendment has purpose and tradition and I will resist any attempt from the government to confiscate all firearms from it citizens, but I am not willing to risk my life and the life of my family for a piece of metal and wood. I own firearms for the shooting sports and primarily to protect my family. If firearms become illegal granted I will try to hide a few and maybe risk imprisonment, but I'm not going to make a stand and try to fight off the authorities as they approach my home. That will go against the main reasons for owning a firearm, protecting me, and my family.

The antis feed off of the gun owner who proclaim Molon Labe, and “Pry it from my cold dead hands.” If firearms became illegal thru the democratic process and not from some invasion or coup (in that case I would fight to the death), you’re basically advocating killing cops, US soldiers, and rebelling again a democratic US government and it’s laws. What would your maker or your forefathers say when you explain to them that after the majority voted and law was passed you killed a few cops that came to confiscate an inanimate object in your home, before being killed yourself? You will find your place in hell next to the bootleggers and drug dealers that also killed cops.

Maybe it is because I'm not a rabid gun fanatic. I don't spend hours playing with my guns, staring at them and thinking about them like others do. They sit until they are used and then they are put away. They are objects, like a golf club, a toaster, or a pair of shoes, some I like more than others, and some may have a sentimental meaning for me but all of them are just objects. A gun is a tool that can be used to kill. Without my guns I am not powerless. Take away my hammers, and I will find something else to drive a nail with. My mind and body is the only weapon I need. Take away my guns and I will find other ways to kill to defend my life, my family, and my country. These are the only three things I will defend to the death, not some piece of wood, plastic and metal.

Ironbarr · January 3, 2007, 04:43 PM

First published here June 8, 1999, long before the events of September 11, 2001 and those since, Dennis Bateman's heart-felt words of Metal and Wood ring true even more so today as the threat of "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" resonates within the very core of the American patriot. There can't be a man, woman, boy or girl in this nation who has a bit of intelligence and feel of history who hasn't felt a bit of fear for what the future brings - left to those who, seemingly with their heads in the sand, see not the evil without nor the ambivilence - or worse - within.

Metal and Wood, since ensconced in the Essays section of The Firing Line's Library, could very well have been written by a Patrick Henry of yesteryear, the words saying much to the ardent patriot heart; and, I believe, words that touch even the reluctant warrior within us today.

Dennis, seven years and counting... your words stand the test of time.

Thank you, sir.
.

Bogie · January 4, 2007, 11:32 AM

Ahh... And the Cornered Rat... Such an interesting and naive young fellow... I wonder if he ever achieved his dream of mastering digital photography...

(I know, I know...)

Dave R · January 6, 2007, 06:53 PM

Several years ago, there was a thread nominating the best posts on TFL. Dennis' "Metal and Wood" was the walk-away winner. If the contest was held again today, I'm sure it would easily win again. Its timeless. And it explains so well what we all feel, and have been unable to say as clearly.

tlm225 · January 6, 2007, 11:02 PM

Thanks for bringing this back

Those are very eloquent and powerful words that I haven't had the opportunity to read until now.

Oldphart · January 7, 2007, 02:59 PM

Ah Mikeyboy, I can only say that I'm glad the founders didn't feel as you do.

Powderman · May 31, 2012, 03:37 AM

I believe that this thread needs to be brought back to the top once more. The words written my Mr. Bateman are indeed timeless, and should be read again.

It is especially vital because of the times in which we live. To all--please read the entire thread....and reflect upon it.

Respectfully,

Powderman

Al Norris · May 31, 2012, 10:23 AM

Dennis Bateman's essay, "Metal And Wood," has been a part of TFL since 1999. It was properly formatted and placed in our Library, http://thefiringline.com/Misc/librar..._and_Wood.html, that same year.

Every so often, someone "discovers" this old thread and brings it back to the top. It is always a good read. It is always a reminder of what our RKBA actually stands for.

Damn good to see it back again!

Chettt · May 31, 2012, 10:25 AM

That is so special Dennis. Thank you.

robmkivseries70 · May 31, 2012, 10:44 AM

A first for me, thanks for the "bump" Rob

PigFarmer · May 31, 2012, 01:55 PM

It isn't often that we encounter greatness in the written word anymore.

Is Dennis still part of the TFL community? I did a quick search and didn't see anything posted by him since 2009. I would like to know his thoughts now on how well his essay has stood the test of time.

TailGator · May 31, 2012, 04:14 PM

Priceless, timeless, and masterful, reflecting a fine mind dedicated to a just cause. Thank you, Powderman, for bringing this to our attention.

October 1, 2004, 04:35 PM	#76
Any .45 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2004 Location: SW FLORIDA, USA Posts: 604	I respect what all of you say and how you feel about this. But wars are not fought by men without families and all though this is not a war, something like this can happen, all it takes is that one man or woman with that will not release they're arms to the Gov't gets arrested or worse and boom it starts, there goes everyones freedom. One can not say what they will do when push comes to shove, but I do know this, one man alone can not win the battle, muchless win the war, but one man can start a revolution. So the day that they do take our arms thats the day we lost our freedom, because we can't fight wars with sticks and stones. This is why we do what we all do, and that is take part in wonderful forums like this speek our minds and stick together. With all respect, Any .45 __________________ Foster and polish The warior spirit While serving in the world; Illuminate the path According to your inner light" "Spring forth from the Great Earth; Billow like Great Waves; Stand like a tree, sit like a rock; Use One to strike All. Learn and forget! " "At the instant A warrior Confronts a foe, All things Come into focus" Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) Founder of Aikido

October 1, 2004, 04:56 PM	#77
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	lilysdad, I think you are mistaken. For the reasons you wrote--indeed, for the devotion you demonstrate for your daughter--I believe that you and others like you (and me) will be some of the FIRST to take up arms to defend this Nation. For, in defending our country, you ARE defending your family and the people you love. And, God forbid, if the time comes, people like us will do so with a flame and intensity that has not been seen in this country since the days of the Revolutionary War. Oh, and for the rest of the folks: I also want to let you know that if the call comes to go door-to-door, I will be there. But, I won't be confiscating guns. I will be one of the people waiting for the confiscators. As will a LOT of other cops I know. And, I will be in uniform. But, it won't be a police uniform. In a garment bag in my closet, there's an old set of BDU's, with Staff Sergeant's stripes on the collar. They still fit. These words come to mind.... "I...do solemnly swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.... LET FREEDOM RING! __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

October 1, 2004, 08:27 PM	#78
45 Long Colt Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2002 Location: Rural and Western. Posts: 143	Flames? You told the simple truth. So did Dennis. And no man can know with absolute certainty how he will meet any particular test until he's been there. No flames here. And you're too thoughtful to call yourself rookie. __________________ . "The unarmed man is not merely defenseless - he is also contemptible." -Machiavelli ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

October 4, 2004, 09:27 PM	#82
ghillieman Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2001 Posts: 110	dennis for prez dennis will you run for president? ghillieman.......

October 7, 2004, 02:15 PM	#83
Don Gwinn Staff Emeritus Join Date: March 9, 2000 Location: Virden, IL Posts: 5,917	Well, I don't get there much anymore (and by "there," I mean of course, the Year of Our Lord 2002) but I'll keep that in mind, Sandy. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner

October 1, 2004, 09:59 PM	#79
readyfire Member Join Date: May 20, 2004 Location: Glen burnie MD Posts: 84	Dennis,you are a true patriot.I will keep your words close.And if the day ever comes id stand with any of you gents any day!I wont hand my freedom over without a fight,kids or not,it would be a fight to be part of as our kids need to grow up in a free America.I would gladly fight or even die securing freedom for our children and the freedom of future americans.Dennis i hope you dont mind but i printed out your metal and wood speech and will show it to friends,for it is by far the most beautifully written patriotic statement ive seen in a long time.Youve brought hope back to me in these times when i feel so alone in my patriotism.God bless you sir!!!!!

October 4, 2004, 02:37 PM	#81
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Thank you Dennis - outstanding, sir!

October 8, 2004, 09:02 AM	#85
Ironbarr Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2000 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,188	Brick... No 3-cornered hat, please..... . My head is a cube __________________ -AndyB FWTV - For Whatever The Value ...When seconds count, most help is just minutes away.

January 2, 2007, 08:07 PM	#86
glock19xdsc Member Join Date: July 2, 2005 Posts: 83	Time for a resurrection. Great thread! __________________ "There is no retreat, but in submission and slavery. Our chains are forged. Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come!" - Patrick Henry, 1775

January 3, 2007, 01:32 AM	#87
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	I totally agree, we all need to read this again and...... think about it

January 3, 2007, 01:43 AM	#88
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Yes it is. Back in the first Iraq war, a young man from Rupert was killed. He died, fully believing in what he was doing. To honor his memory, a couple that knew him well, started the Andrew Moeller Tournament. It is a basketball tourney held each year here in Rupert. Any Catholic parish youth in the Diocese of Boise is eligible to come and play. As well, a scholarship was setup from the proceeds of this tourney. At the Tenth anniversary of the Tournament, in 2002, our Bishop presided at the opening ceremony in the newly built Kings Fine Arts Theater in Burley (the tournament had grown too large to be played in just Rupert. It now occupies every basketball court in 2 counties for the weekend it is held). At that assembly, dignitaries ranging from Andrew's Commanding Officer, His Commanding General, Our Governor and several others from DC, were there to commemorate both SP4 Moeller and the tournament itself. At that time, the couple that started this whole thing got up and read Metal and Wood to the entire audience. When it was done, there was not a dry eye in the theater. The Military stood at attention and saluted the reader. I relate this tale now, because in the 2007 tournament in February, the 15th anniversary, Metal and Wood will be read again. Dennis, that salute was yours.

January 3, 2007, 12:23 PM	#89
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	I’m another odd man out here. I believe in the 2nd amendment has purpose and tradition and I will resist any attempt from the government to confiscate all firearms from it citizens, but I am not willing to risk my life and the life of my family for a piece of metal and wood. I own firearms for the shooting sports and primarily to protect my family. If firearms become illegal granted I will try to hide a few and maybe risk imprisonment, but I'm not going to make a stand and try to fight off the authorities as they approach my home. That will go against the main reasons for owning a firearm, protecting me, and my family. The antis feed off of the gun owner who proclaim Molon Labe, and “Pry it from my cold dead hands.” If firearms became illegal thru the democratic process and not from some invasion or coup (in that case I would fight to the death), you’re basically advocating killing cops, US soldiers, and rebelling again a democratic US government and it’s laws. What would your maker or your forefathers say when you explain to them that after the majority voted and law was passed you killed a few cops that came to confiscate an inanimate object in your home, before being killed yourself? You will find your place in hell next to the bootleggers and drug dealers that also killed cops. Maybe it is because I'm not a rabid gun fanatic. I don't spend hours playing with my guns, staring at them and thinking about them like others do. They sit until they are used and then they are put away. They are objects, like a golf club, a toaster, or a pair of shoes, some I like more than others, and some may have a sentimental meaning for me but all of them are just objects. A gun is a tool that can be used to kill. Without my guns I am not powerless. Take away my hammers, and I will find something else to drive a nail with. My mind and body is the only weapon I need. Take away my guns and I will find other ways to kill to defend my life, my family, and my country. These are the only three things I will defend to the death, not some piece of wood, plastic and metal.

January 3, 2007, 04:43 PM	#90
Ironbarr Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2000 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,188	Time-tested. First published here June 8, 1999, long before the events of September 11, 2001 and those since, Dennis Bateman's heart-felt words of Metal and Wood ring true even more so today as the threat of "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" resonates within the very core of the American patriot. There can't be a man, woman, boy or girl in this nation who has a bit of intelligence and feel of history who hasn't felt a bit of fear for what the future brings - left to those who, seemingly with their heads in the sand, see not the evil without nor the ambivilence - or worse - within. Metal and Wood, since ensconced in the Essays section of The Firing Line's Library, could very well have been written by a Patrick Henry of yesteryear, the words saying much to the ardent patriot heart; and, I believe, words that touch even the reluctant warrior within us today. Dennis, seven years and counting... your words stand the test of time. Thank you, sir. . __________________ -AndyB FWTV - For Whatever The Value ...When seconds count, most help is just minutes away.

January 4, 2007, 11:32 AM	#91
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Ahh... And the Cornered Rat... Such an interesting and naive young fellow... I wonder if he ever achieved his dream of mastering digital photography... (I know, I know...) __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

January 6, 2007, 06:53 PM	#92
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Several years ago, there was a thread nominating the best posts on TFL. Dennis' "Metal and Wood" was the walk-away winner. If the contest was held again today, I'm sure it would easily win again. Its timeless. And it explains so well what we all feel, and have been unable to say as clearly. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 6, 2007, 11:02 PM	#93
tlm225 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 963	Thanks for bringing this back Those are very eloquent and powerful words that I haven't had the opportunity to read until now. __________________ All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

January 7, 2007, 02:59 PM	#94
Oldphart Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Posts: 375	Ah Mikeyboy, I can only say that I'm glad the founders didn't feel as you do. __________________ There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous people, and the most dangerous person of all is the one with nothing left to lose.

May 31, 2012, 03:37 AM	#95
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	I believe that this thread needs to be brought back to the top once more. The words written my Mr. Bateman are indeed timeless, and should be read again. It is especially vital because of the times in which we live. To all--please read the entire thread....and reflect upon it. Respectfully, Powderman __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

May 31, 2012, 10:23 AM	#96
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Dennis Bateman's essay, "Metal And Wood," has been a part of TFL since 1999. It was properly formatted and placed in our Library, http://thefiringline.com/Misc/librar..._and_Wood.html, that same year. Every so often, someone "discovers" this old thread and brings it back to the top. It is always a good read. It is always a reminder of what our RKBA actually stands for. Damn good to see it back again!

May 31, 2012, 10:25 AM	#97
Chettt Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Posts: 238	That is so special Dennis. Thank you.

May 31, 2012, 10:44 AM	#98
robmkivseries70 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: free territory Posts: 203	A first for me, thanks for the "bump" Rob

May 31, 2012, 01:55 PM	#99
PigFarmer Member Join Date: August 24, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 97	Greatness It isn't often that we encounter greatness in the written word anymore. Is Dennis still part of the TFL community? I did a quick search and didn't see anything posted by him since 2009. I would like to know his thoughts now on how well his essay has stood the test of time. __________________ I don't like when government decides to legislate good ideas -- Brian Pfleuger

May 31, 2012, 04:14 PM	#100
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	Priceless, timeless, and masterful, reflecting a fine mind dedicated to a just cause. Thank you, Powderman, for bringing this to our attention.