Don't really want an AR, but may buy one anyhow

[Smaug]

Looks funny, just to read it. But if Obama wins, there will be zero chance of getting one for 4-8 years.

I had an M16 in the army. It was a good combat rifle. Pretty accurate too.

I don't really have a need or want for one, but it would be nice to have the option. Who knows, it could turn out that the only way I'd have the option is if I bought one now. Of course, could be considered a Rainy Day gun. Like if we are invaded by Russia, and have already been disarmed by our politicians, it would be nice to have an AR and a few mags.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'd shoot it occasionally at the range. Maybe join up with some competition shooting league just for fun.

The guns I want now are a Marlin lever action in 44 Mag, a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Mag, and a Ruger SP-101 in 357. But I think those will be available post-election, so I'm thinking of putting them on hold in favor of this gun I don't really want and which costs too much.

What are your thoughts? What would you do?

[RockyMtnTactical]

Get one. You will like it more than you think you will. Everyone does...

[Rant Casey]

Purchase one while you can. Buy high quality if you're only planning to own one, LMT, NOVESKE etc. Stag arms also make a great product. What kind of features are you looking for in the rifle? Carbine length?

[Caeser2001]

I will definitely be getting one asap, and a couple stripped lowers.

[Caeser2001]

not trying to hijack but what's the difference in twist rates 1/7 vs 1/9 out of a 16"? after my first m4 clone the next will be a tackdriver build so would it really matter?

[Rant Casey]

All depends on what size bullets you plan on shooting. Generally, 1:7 for bullets 75gr and up.

[BusGunner007]

Buy now.
Smile later.

[jhgreasemonkey]

The guns I want now are a Marlin lever action in 44 Mag, a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Mag, and a Ruger SP-101 in 357.

I would rather have a marlin lever action .44 mag than an AR 15. It's got less maintanence, better stopping power at close to medium range, and is just plain fun

[44 AMP]

First of all, Obama hasn't won the election yet, no matter what his supporters in the press would like us to think. And second, He has to get a bill through Congress banning them, and that also takes time. And third, I don't see any new AWB (assuming it got passed) that would eliminate ownership of existing AR style rifles, and there quite a few of them around today, and will be for a while.

Whoever wins this next election won't be sworn in to office until Jan 20, and even if they have their pet bills primed and ready to go that day, it will still take time (and media attention) to get them through both houses of Congress. They can push them as hard as they can, but they cannot sneak them past us without our knowing about them.

Also, one other thing to consider, is that both the shooting public AND politicians remember things that hurt them. And the 94 AWB hurt the Democrats, costing them the control of Congress that they had held for 40 years. Republicans dropped the ball, and Dems regained their power later, but they did lose it for some time. Even though the leftist media tried to tell everyone that it was the "Contract with America" that gave the Republicans their control, the truth is that it was outraged gun owners voting as a block for the first time in decades that cost the Dems so many Congressional seats. Pres. Clinton admitted it in a speech to the Washington Press Club (which was covered in the gun press, but not the mainstream media). They know, and they will remember. So should we. Party leaders can claim they want a new AWB, to make their members happy, but they will be cautious about actually putting it to a vote. One thing I am pretty sure they will not do is vote in an AWB the summer before an elelction, like they did last time.

They will probably push it as soon as they can, hoping to get it through long enough before the next election so that we, the people, will forget about it, and be distracted by fresher, more current issues closer to the next (2010) election, no matter who wins this one. But there is no certainty that they will succeed.

[nra_guns_winner]

Just buy a few forged lowers. Its an investment, Parts will always be arund to finish a build up. Or you could sell them in a few years and make money!!

[tplumeri]

+1 on buying lowers if you dont want to tie up alot of your gun money.
i have a colt AR but bought a couple lowers for future builds.

[Sixer]

I just bought my first AR a couple weeks ago... I absolutely love it!
Buy it now or buy it later, but eventually you will buy one, so why not buy it now?

PS Why buy additional lowers? Just curious. Im not very educated in the AR 15 department yet.

[RockyMtnTactical]

First of all, Obama hasn't won the election yet, no matter what his supporters in the press would like us to think. And second, He has to get a bill through Congress banning them, and that also takes time. And third, I don't see any new AWB (assuming it got passed) that would eliminate ownership of existing AR style rifles, and there quite a few of them around today, and will be for a while.

I like your optimism.

Just make sure it doesn't lead to complacency. Never give up the fight, the second we let our guard down, the gun grabbers will swoop in and take what they can.

Liberty is always unfinished business.

Also, about buying forged lowers. I have a couple laying around too, but according to the last ban in '94, it was technically illegal to grandfather an AR15 after the AWB began (despite the fact that they would likely have never known the difference).

That said, we cannot be sure that the next legislation will not require upper parts to be serialized as well. I am fairly optimistic about the future of gunowners, but I am not going to get complacent.

Osama is a scary candidate, and hopefully he will lose, but it's also likely that the GOP will lose seats in Congress this time around too.

Vote for pro-gun candidates and no matter who represents you, call, mail, and email the living tar out of them encouraging them to vote for pro-gun legislation and against anti-gun legislation!!

[spyderdude]

I have no real use for an AR-15 rifle either, but I like military style weapons, and with the upcoming elections, it only makes sense to grab one while I can. I called dibs on a S&W M&P15 at my FFL dealer, and should have it in my possession the Friday after next. My AK rifle will serve me well for years to come, but it simply does not have the accuracy that an AR does.

There's always a chance that the "Assault Weapons" ban will never come to pass, but better safe than sorry. I know if it does pass, the prices of banned guns will skyrocket, and high cap mags will be 4 times their pre-ban cost.

[Caeser2001]

PS Why buy additional lowers? Just curious. Im not very educated in the AR 15 department yet.

the lower is the only part that is serialized, everything else on the rifle is fair game. for example if you had a "ONLY" stripped lower before the 94 awb went into effect, you could still add all of those features that make it more "dangerous" than the post ban rifles b/c you know how a flash hider, collapsible stock, bayonet lug make make the bullets that much more deadly than a post ban rifle b/c the rifle was owned before the ban went into affect.

so stock up on stripped lowers, they go on bunbroker between $100-$150, couldn't tell ya how much they go for at a gun show. I plan to buy atleast two ar lowers, an ar 10 lower, fal and ak receivers. why take a chance and wait until there's real talk of a ban, prices will skyrocket then, buy them now while they still cheap.

[blgoode]

Do it Do it Do it. I have a 16" but just snagged this TRUE Mil Spec AR. LMT is a long producer of firearms to the military. You get what your happy with. If I were to get another brand it would be STAG. I believe LMT makes some of there parts as well

[Smaug]

Wow, thanks for the response fellas. I mostly post in existing threads, but when I'm in need of advice and post my own, I am always amazed. (OK, usually )

That is a beautiful weapon, blgoode.

Sadly, I don't know much about ARs. There seem to be dozens of brands, options... I have a buddy here at work who talks about building them, but I don't know if I want to get into that.

Let's try to keep the political parts to a minimum, so Mr./Mrs. Moderator doesn't come by and put the lock-down on this excellent thread.

What I'm looking for is either a 16" or 20" barrel AR. I want the finish to be good & durable, but not fancy. I want reliability above accuracy; military-type accuracy is fine. Of course, I want a fair price, hopefully in the $600-800 range. I'm leaning toward a 20" barrel, as that will give slightly more velocity and more long range accuracy with open sights. Should I consider a 16", in case I have to use it indoors? I don't think that is likely though. I liked the pocket in the stock we had on our issued M16A2s; that was quite handy. I have no use for a skeletonized, "tactical" stock or folding stock.

We could regularly hit human silhouettes at 300m with open sights with regular old bulk ball ammo! But that won't be a surprise to AR owners. I don't think that is possible with an SKS or AK, and I believe for my purposes, an AR will be every bit as reliable as an AK.

What kind of maintenance is necessary on an AR? If I shoot a few hundred rounds, then put it away without cleaning it, will I have problems next time out? My coworker mentioned that ARs use "dirty" gas to operate the action, rather than clean gas like an AK. I thought it was all dirty...

I don't think I will need any fancy sighting systems, lights, or any of that jazz, but it might be nice to have the option if I change my mind in the future. Reading back, it looks like I am influenced that it "should be" just like the military ones.

[spyderdude]

I personally favor the carbine sized AR rifle over the full size ones, so I guess it's personal preference. If you want a rifle that you can add optics to later if you wish, I suggest a flat top AR with a removable carry handle, or just a flat top with flip up sights. I don't think the quality varies greatly between the different manufacturers, but given your budget, maybe a used Bushmaster or DPMS would fit the bill. Good luck with your search!

As for cleaning, I would clean it after every use, or after every few hundred rounds, depending on the ammo you use.

[Tuckahoe]

I would buy these items without a paper trail or not at all.

[Willie D]

the lower is the only part that is serialized, everything else on the rifle is fair game. for example if you had a "ONLY" stripped lower before the 94 awb went into effect, you could still add all of those features that make it more "dangerous" than the post ban rifles b/c you know how a flash hider, collapsible stock, bayonet lug make make the bullets that much more deadly than a post ban rifle b/c the rifle was owned before the ban went into affect.

Are we sure about this? I'm just curious. Could you manufacture bayonet lugs, flash hiders, etc. during the last ban? Or were you stuck with what had already been made?

[Caeser2001]

Are we sure about this? I'm just curious. Could you manufacture bayonet lugs, flash hiders, etc. during the last ban? Or were you stuck with what had already been made?

I'm not talking about manufacturing, I'm talking about using existing parts you would find at a gun show or off the net.

[44 AMP]

On a couple of points....

Lower recievers are legally rifles. Stripped or not, they are rifles with serial numbers. If you bought one before the 94AWB then it was a "pre-ban" rifle, no matter when you added the other parts to it. Since it was a pre-ban rifle, you could use any and all of the pre-ban parts.

If you bought it AFTER the effective date of the 94 AWB, it was a "post-ban" rifle, and you could not legally add on the banned parts. You could buy them and own them, but you could not put them on a post ban rifle.

As to "dirty gas" vs "Clean gas", there is no clean gas, all powder gas is dirty. What your friend was referring to is the gas system design. The AR uses direct impingment, where the gas is routed back into the action to work the bolt carrier. The AK (and many others) uses a gas piston system, where the gas is routed into a gas cylinder (mounted on the barrel) where it pushes on a piston which moves the operating rod to move the bolt carrier, and no gas enters the action except residue from the chamber when the case is estracted.

Also remember that the 94 AWB (which banned NO real assault rifles, only certain semi autos that it called assault WEAPONS) was only passed by a single vote.

[RT]

If you want a complete rifle check out some of these...
http://www.stagarms.com/index.php
http://www.lewismachine.net/catalog.php
http://www.sabredefence.com/
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...category=15701

Remember that once you have a nice lower with the stock you like and a good trigger, it is easy to switch uppers. Just push 2 pins. There are a lot of companies that will sell you an assembled lower and then you can order whatever upper you desire off the web. The lower has to go through an FFL but everything else can come right to your mailbox.

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/index
http://www.pkfirearms.com/store/start.aspx
http://colemantyler.com/index.php?PH...6deae80d9e4858

[Jermtheory]

All depends on what size bullets you plan on shooting. Generally, 1:7 for bullets 75gr and up.

my 1:7 likes everything from 55gr to 77gr....probably meant "up to" 75gr+?

the 75gr TAP is the best stuff going in .223 or 5.56 imo and you'll need a 1:7(or 1:8?) to shoot it.i hear some 1:9's will,but theres no way to be sure until you try it.

the 77gr Sierra is supposed to be really good stuff as well(same story with twists rate).

if you want a 16"-20" barrel i'd look at something with a mid-length gas system(although a 16" LMT is a fine weapon in the carbine length system).

in your price range?...maybe a Sabre upper...or CMMG...with separately bought lower and/or some luck.

What kind of maintenance is necessary on an AR? If I shoot a few hundred rounds, then put it away without cleaning it, will I have problems next time out?

no.

its far more important to keep them wet(lubed) than it is to keep them clean.ive personally shot up to 600 rounds between lube/cleaning without issue.i know others that have went thousands of rounds without cleaning,the carbon build-up wont hurt anything as long as its lubed.i wouldnt go more than 600 rounds or so without lube though...and thats range shooting,the dirtier your enviroment the more often you'll want to lube.

cleaning is good(i never go more than 600 rounds or so without a good cleaning),but lube will keep it running.

[Rant Casey]

The 1:7 can stabilize a heavier bullet better than a 1:9

my 1:7 likes everything from 55gr to 77gr....probably meant "up to" 75gr+?