Trying to Decide: Glock 19 or Walther P99 - Page 2

Hard Ball · January 23, 2007, 11:43 AM

Walther P99 AS. It does not have th serious problems inherent in the basic Glock design.

The Body Bagger · January 23, 2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Even as dense as he was I don't think he would have pulled the trigger with enough force to overcome a DA trigger pull..

So how is this different than the Walther with the striker system? How is this any different than a 1911 SA? Your opinion while it is your own, is flawed. The mistake happened when the agent inserted a loaded magazine and released the slide on it, forgetting that while previously empty, he now loaded it. Blaming faults of the operator onto the weapons design is faulty.

Laserlips · January 23, 2007, 12:33 PM

The Body Bagger:

Releasing the slide did not cause the ND.. Pulling the trigger on the Glock is what caused the discharge..

What is the "always" trigger pull of the Glock, 5lbs, or 3.5lbs. ?

The DA trigger pull on the Walther P99 is 8.8lbs.... You would have to pull the trigger twice as hard (more or less) on a Walther P99 to cause the same ND as with the Glock.

By the same token if your firearm had a 45lb DA trigger pull it would be even safer from a potential nd/ad... But of course that isn't practical, is it?

In the neglient discharge the operator was certainly at fault. IMO if the pistol had a heavier DA trigger pull, such as the Walther P99 the possibility of that nd happening would have been lessened... Not removed.

Lighter trigger pulls are by their very nature less forgiving of stupid operators who shouldn't have their fingers in the triggerguards until ready to fire anyway.

If you are just looking for a discussion, keep it up.. I'm retired and more than willing to spend all the time you feel interested in spending discussing what should be common sense to most folks... Heavier trigger pull is obviously better when we are talking pontential for nd/ad..

Have a great day.

J. Pomeroy

The Body Bagger · January 23, 2007, 12:45 PM

Glock trigger pull is 5.5lbs standard. If you recall the video the handling of the firearm and the callousness of pulling the trigger was quite apparent, I highly doubt a 3lb increase in the trigger would have done anything but required the agent to pull that much harder.

Mishandling the firearm and failing to remember that when you release the slide on a loaded magazine, it chambers a round; is completely the fault of the operator. I just can't see how an 8.8lb trigger would have been any safer. I'm almost positive that the agent giving the speach was so enamoured with himself in trying to impress the children, that he would have pulled the trigger on an 11lb Sigma, and recieved the same desired effect.

9mmjj · January 23, 2007, 12:46 PM

Wow, great replies everyone, thanks! I wish I had the opportunity to fire both guns before purchasing, but don't. I have held the glock, but don't have the ability to fondle the p99. I am fairly set on the P99 now and (based on what I've read here) am also leaning towards the AS trigger over the QA. Sounds like the AS might have a little more margin of safety over the QA which, as a novice, appeals to me. Feel free to keep the QA vs AS comments coming though.

Thanks again

shield20 · January 23, 2007, 12:48 PM

I think anyone who relies on a trigger pull for safety, whether it is 4#s or 8#s, is an ND looking to happen.
In that view, it is much more important to me to have a lighter consistent trigger - for accuracy, then a heavy one - for safety. (7.5# Walther is just fine, 5# would be Ok too)

If there is a large enough difference between 4 or 5# and 8#, or even 12#, when purposely pulling the trigger thinking the gun was empty, getting startled, jamming your gun into its holster with an object in the guard, etc. to call a DA safer - I don't see it.

jj,

I am definitely overruled in the AS vs QA choice, but I still like the QA for its consistency. EVERY pull will be the same when the gun is cocked. The reason I went to a DOA over a DA/SA is to avoid 2 different trigger pulls on the same gun, the AS adds a 3rd. Also, the decocker on the AS will NOT render the trigger unoperable - it will just require a harder pull. The QA needs the slide to be partially cycled (less the 1/2" - doable with 1 hand) to re-cock the striker. This MAY be an issue to you as a novice.

Check them out for yourself - and see whats what!

Ausserordeutlich · January 23, 2007, 02:45 PM

Hard Ball: I know you'll probably find this taxing, but would you mind providing a little illumination regarding Glocks's serious problems? You mean their problem of trying to produce enough Glocks to keep up with demand? Or perhaps the "problem" that there are over 4,000,000 Glocks in service now?

ckd · January 23, 2007, 02:49 PM

A lot of good opinions and considerations.

The two that have always been deal breakers for me:
1) Does shooting feel natural/intuitive or awkward?
2) If it is a SD HG, is it considered highly reliable and used by a large number of American police and/or military agencies.

Both are fine guns, but for self-defense I would chose a Glock over a Walther.

Accidents unfortunately do happen, but discharge issues are operator caused; if not, the liberals are correct, guns cause crime.

STAGE 2 · January 23, 2007, 04:21 PM

Walther. Think of it as a glock with much better ergos and accurate. It will probably hold its resale value better to if you change your mind.

Zippy06 · January 23, 2007, 09:01 PM

IMHO. Consistent trigger pull. Is important.
On the GLOCK, trigger pull is the same, every time.

cdsdss · January 23, 2007, 09:24 PM

The pros of the AS system, in my opinion:

1) The heavier DA pull is the gun's safety system.
2) The SA pull is extremely short
3) The AS system has an amazingly fast trigger reset. You can practically pull it to fire the second shot before the first has left the barrel (well, not really, but it feels that way)

The QA is okay, too. I don't like it because it is a consistent trigger pull (which messes up my muscle memory for my duty Sig), and it doesn't have the advantages listed above.

ShipWreck · January 23, 2007, 09:59 PM

givo08 · January 25, 2007, 01:17 PM

FYI, glock factory trigger connector is 5.5lbs but the actual pull is more like 6.5-7lbs. The 3.5lb glock connector (not stock on anything but the G34 and G35) gives you about a 5lb actual pull.

How does the full size P99 compare to the G19 in overall dimensions and concealability? It seems like the slides are about the same length but how does the grip length and width (glocks are fairly slim, although they look thick/blocky because they are square) compare? Are there any good comparison pictures of the two posted anywhere? I'm interested in trying a P99 because i've heard great things about the AS trigger.

givo08 · January 25, 2007, 01:22 PM

Also is the size of the P99 in .40 the same as the 9mm? How do you rate the gun in .40 compared to the 9 as far as recoil, reliability, accuracy, etc?

ShipWreck · January 25, 2007, 03:46 PM

Its the same side - the front of the slide is a tiny bit higher - because the barrel is bigger. Other than that, everything is the same...

Most people claims the 40 version is too snappy. Honestly, the gun was designed around the 9mm platform. That's what its perfect for.

givo08 · January 25, 2007, 04:32 PM

Shipwreck,

I've browsed the Walther forum listed in your signature and it seems you recommend hard chroming the P99's a lot. Is there something wrong with the factory finish?

TK6411 · January 25, 2007, 04:44 PM

Between the two choices I would go with the Walther P99. I hate the crappy looks and feel of the Glocks and prefer the look and feel of the Walther P99. For some reason Glocks just look like the ugliest handgun on the planet to me. Hands down the Walther is the best between the two in terms of looks and feel IMHO. I've seriously thought about getting the P99, and may someday, but I just had to get a 1911 as I was bitten by the 1911 bug. You got to love .45 ACP...btw S&W makes a Walther P99 variant in .45ACP which is very tempting.

Jim

ShipWreck · January 25, 2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

I've browsed the Walther forum listed in your signature and it seems you recommend hard chroming the P99's a lot. Is there something wrong with the factory finish?

1 - I just like the look - the 2 tone look. Makes the gun look 200% better - IMHO.

2. The black outter coating OVER the tennifer does develop holster wear quicker than a Glock will. But, remember, the black surface is not the tennifer.

So, I hard chromed my compact - now its holster wear proof for good pretty much. I liked it so much that I did my 2 fullsized 99s, even though I don't even carry or holster those.

It just looks kewl

brj · January 25, 2007, 04:56 PM

Heck get 'em both. It's only money...

Rugged · January 25, 2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

What's better about the 17 than the 19?

BETTER is a subjective term. Let's go with different.

17 has a longer sight radius. This lends to accuracy. It's a tiny bit longer. TINY.

in original configuration, the 17 holds a couple of extra cartridges in the magazine.
----

The 19 is B E T T E R, because the 19 has a smaller grip and is easier to conceal, again only SLIGHTLY.

-----

19 is the BEST all round 9mm ever.

hpg · January 25, 2007, 06:52 PM

GLOCK

Evolution · January 26, 2007, 01:35 PM

I tested P99's when our department was looking to change sidearms. Decent gun, but I ended up recommending the Glock. I just didn't like it that much. Not very user friendly to me. To me the Glock is very functional, very easy to use.

625 · January 26, 2007, 02:01 PM

Yep, best to shoot them both and pick what you shoot best. I actually prefer the Glock. Both of these guns seem to have mostly good things said about them, so you can't make a bad decision. Good luck!

viesczy · January 27, 2007, 09:08 PM

I have a G19 and a P99 QPQ .40 S&W before the DAO change by S&W. If I was forced to have just one, I think I'd go with my P99 because it has better ergonomics, better trigger and points better in my hands. For some reason the smaller Glocks (G19/23/32 & G26/27/33) all don't point as well as their larger brothers (G17/22/31 & G20/21).

Both have proven to be as reliable as the Sun rising in the East and water being wet. Recoil is neglible in either pistol in either caliber.

Derek

minsonngo · January 27, 2007, 09:27 PM

Glock 19 is the way to go.

January 23, 2007, 11:43 AM	#26
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Walther P99 AS. It does not have th serious problems inherent in the basic Glock design. __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

January 23, 2007, 12:33 PM	#28
Laserlips Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 627	The Body Bagger: Releasing the slide did not cause the ND.. Pulling the trigger on the Glock is what caused the discharge.. What is the "always" trigger pull of the Glock, 5lbs, or 3.5lbs. ? The DA trigger pull on the Walther P99 is 8.8lbs.... You would have to pull the trigger twice as hard (more or less) on a Walther P99 to cause the same ND as with the Glock. By the same token if your firearm had a 45lb DA trigger pull it would be even safer from a potential nd/ad... But of course that isn't practical, is it? In the neglient discharge the operator was certainly at fault. IMO if the pistol had a heavier DA trigger pull, such as the Walther P99 the possibility of that nd happening would have been lessened... Not removed. Lighter trigger pulls are by their very nature less forgiving of stupid operators who shouldn't have their fingers in the triggerguards until ready to fire anyway. If you are just looking for a discussion, keep it up.. I'm retired and more than willing to spend all the time you feel interested in spending discussing what should be common sense to most folks... Heavier trigger pull is obviously better when we are talking pontential for nd/ad.. Have a great day. J. Pomeroy __________________ "Laus Deo"

January 23, 2007, 12:45 PM	#29
The Body Bagger Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2004 Posts: 818	Glock trigger pull is 5.5lbs standard. If you recall the video the handling of the firearm and the callousness of pulling the trigger was quite apparent, I highly doubt a 3lb increase in the trigger would have done anything but required the agent to pull that much harder. Mishandling the firearm and failing to remember that when you release the slide on a loaded magazine, it chambers a round; is completely the fault of the operator. I just can't see how an 8.8lb trigger would have been any safer. I'm almost positive that the agent giving the speach was so enamoured with himself in trying to impress the children, that he would have pulled the trigger on an 11lb Sigma, and recieved the same desired effect. __________________ Rock Out With Your Glock Out

January 23, 2007, 09:01 PM	#35
Zippy06 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: S.E. MI Posts: 117	IMHO. Consistent trigger pull. Is important. On the GLOCK, trigger pull is the same, every time. __________________ Zippy06. U.S.N. Vet. NRA. Lee Turret(circa 1986). 9mm, .357 Mag., .40 S&W, .223 Rem., .30-30 Win., .308 Win. G17, S&W 686, G22C, Colt H-Bar, Marlin, Savage 10FP. Be safe. Be happy

January 23, 2007, 09:24 PM	#36
cdsdss Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Location: Wash. DC Posts: 147	AS trigger The pros of the AS system, in my opinion: 1) The heavier DA pull is the gun's safety system. 2) The SA pull is extremely short 3) The AS system has an amazingly fast trigger reset. You can practically pull it to fire the second shot before the first has left the barrel (well, not really, but it feels that way) The QA is okay, too. I don't like it because it is a consistent trigger pull (which messes up my muscle memory for my duty Sig), and it doesn't have the advantages listed above.

January 23, 2007, 12:46 PM	#30
9mmjj Junior Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Posts: 2	Wow, great replies everyone, thanks! I wish I had the opportunity to fire both guns before purchasing, but don't. I have held the glock, but don't have the ability to fondle the p99. I am fairly set on the P99 now and (based on what I've read here) am also leaning towards the AS trigger over the QA. Sounds like the AS might have a little more margin of safety over the QA which, as a novice, appeals to me. Feel free to keep the QA vs AS comments coming though. Thanks again

January 23, 2007, 12:48 PM	#31
shield20 Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2005 Location: Hudson Valley, New York Posts: 1,371	I think anyone who relies on a trigger pull for safety, whether it is 4#s or 8#s, is an ND looking to happen. In that view, it is much more important to me to have a lighter consistent trigger - for accuracy, then a heavy one - for safety. (7.5# Walther is just fine, 5# would be Ok too) If there is a large enough difference between 4 or 5# and 8#, or even 12#, when purposely pulling the trigger thinking the gun was empty, getting startled, jamming your gun into its holster with an object in the guard, etc. to call a DA safer - I don't see it. jj, I am definitely overruled in the AS vs QA choice, but I still like the QA for its consistency. EVERY pull will be the same when the gun is cocked. The reason I went to a DOA over a DA/SA is to avoid 2 different trigger pulls on the same gun, the AS adds a 3rd. Also, the decocker on the AS will NOT render the trigger unoperable - it will just require a harder pull. The QA needs the slide to be partially cycled (less the 1/2" - doable with 1 hand) to re-cock the striker. This MAY be an issue to you as a novice. Check them out for yourself - and see whats what!

January 23, 2007, 02:45 PM	#32
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	Hard Ball: I know you'll probably find this taxing, but would you mind providing a little illumination regarding Glocks's serious problems? You mean their problem of trying to produce enough Glocks to keep up with demand? Or perhaps the "problem" that there are over 4,000,000 Glocks in service now?

January 23, 2007, 02:49 PM	#33
ckd Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2007 Posts: 249	A lot of good opinions and considerations. The two that have always been deal breakers for me: 1) Does shooting feel natural/intuitive or awkward? 2) If it is a SD HG, is it considered highly reliable and used by a large number of American police and/or military agencies. Both are fine guns, but for self-defense I would chose a Glock over a Walther. Accidents unfortunately do happen, but discharge issues are operator caused; if not, the liberals are correct, guns cause crime.

January 23, 2007, 04:21 PM	#34
STAGE 2 Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2002 Posts: 2,676	Walther. Think of it as a glock with much better ergos and accurate. It will probably hold its resale value better to if you change your mind.

January 23, 2007, 09:59 PM	#37
ShipWreck Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 1,744

January 25, 2007, 01:17 PM	#38
givo08 Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2006 Posts: 234	FYI, glock factory trigger connector is 5.5lbs but the actual pull is more like 6.5-7lbs. The 3.5lb glock connector (not stock on anything but the G34 and G35) gives you about a 5lb actual pull. How does the full size P99 compare to the G19 in overall dimensions and concealability? It seems like the slides are about the same length but how does the grip length and width (glocks are fairly slim, although they look thick/blocky because they are square) compare? Are there any good comparison pictures of the two posted anywhere? I'm interested in trying a P99 because i've heard great things about the AS trigger.

January 25, 2007, 01:22 PM	#39
givo08 Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2006 Posts: 234	Also is the size of the P99 in .40 the same as the 9mm? How do you rate the gun in .40 compared to the 9 as far as recoil, reliability, accuracy, etc?

January 25, 2007, 03:46 PM	#40
ShipWreck Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 1,744	Its the same side - the front of the slide is a tiny bit higher - because the barrel is bigger. Other than that, everything is the same... Most people claims the 40 version is too snappy. Honestly, the gun was designed around the 9mm platform. That's what its perfect for.

January 25, 2007, 04:32 PM	#41
givo08 Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2006 Posts: 234	Shipwreck, I've browsed the Walther forum listed in your signature and it seems you recommend hard chroming the P99's a lot. Is there something wrong with the factory finish?

January 25, 2007, 04:44 PM	#42
TK6411 Member Join Date: January 17, 2007 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 18	Between the two choices I would go with the Walther P99. I hate the crappy looks and feel of the Glocks and prefer the look and feel of the Walther P99. For some reason Glocks just look like the ugliest handgun on the planet to me. Hands down the Walther is the best between the two in terms of looks and feel IMHO. I've seriously thought about getting the P99, and may someday, but I just had to get a 1911 as I was bitten by the 1911 bug. You got to love .45 ACP...btw S&W makes a Walther P99 variant in .45ACP which is very tempting. Jim

January 25, 2007, 04:56 PM	#44
brj Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2004 Location: WV Posts: 113	Heck get 'em both. It's only money... __________________ NRA WV Citizens Defense League

January 25, 2007, 06:52 PM	#46
hpg Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2002 Location: in the Bluegrass State Posts: 1,610	GLOCK __________________ NRA member Semper Paratus

January 26, 2007, 01:35 PM	#47
Evolution Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: Holly Springs N.C. Posts: 1	I tested P99's when our department was looking to change sidearms. Decent gun, but I ended up recommending the Glock. I just didn't like it that much. Not very user friendly to me. To me the Glock is very functional, very easy to use.

January 26, 2007, 02:01 PM	#48
625 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 858	Yep, best to shoot them both and pick what you shoot best. I actually prefer the Glock. Both of these guns seem to have mostly good things said about them, so you can't make a bad decision. Good luck! __________________ I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves. Ronald Reagan

January 27, 2007, 09:08 PM	#49
viesczy Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2000 Posts: 265	I have a G19 and a P99 QPQ .40 S&W before the DAO change by S&W. If I was forced to have just one, I think I'd go with my P99 because it has better ergonomics, better trigger and points better in my hands. For some reason the smaller Glocks (G19/23/32 & G26/27/33) all don't point as well as their larger brothers (G17/22/31 & G20/21). Both have proven to be as reliable as the Sun rising in the East and water being wet. Recoil is neglible in either pistol in either caliber. Derek

January 27, 2007, 09:27 PM	#50
minsonngo Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Behind my Glock 34. Posts: 100	Glock 19 is the way to go.