221 fireball

wch · December 9, 2009, 04:59 AM

[B]What bolt action would you suggest for a custom 221 fireball?
Or, is there a factory rifle that is so chambered that isn't too expensive?

SeekHer · December 9, 2009, 05:12 AM

I doubt there has been chambered in 30+ years...They came out for the single shot bolt action pistols for silhouette and varmints...

It's a great little cartridge and is a great killer to 250 yds...

Cooper Arms makes their Model 38 action/rifle in it but they aren't cheap starting at around $1,500...

Magnum Wheel Man · December 9, 2009, 07:25 AM

I was just thinking the same thing the other day... er... well actually I was looking at the newer 17 Fireball ( same case necked down to 17 caliber )

I don't think Remington has discontinued all these rifles... while they no longer chamber the 221, any of those listed for the 17 Fireball could easily be rebarreled...

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...y_calibers.asp

omega · December 9, 2009, 07:59 AM

I'm not a rifle guy and can't talk specifically to the thread, but I've always been fascinated by the .17 caliber cartridge. Used to have a Remington XP100 single-shot bolt action pistol chambered in the old .17 Mach IV. Used it for road hunting.

Sending 25 grains of jacketed lead downrange at 4,000 FPS can lead to remarkable ballistics with a pistol, so I imagine doing it with a long gun could be a lot of fun.

Magnum Wheel Man · December 9, 2009, 08:16 AM

My father in law ( whose collection we manage ) had several 17 Remingtons, & I just couldn't get into the cartridge myself... but he also collected Contenders, & several years after he died, I found a nice unshot 10" octogon 17 K Hornet barrel, & finally this last year got dies for it, & began loading for it... I'm really liking it, however, there are a lot of steps to loading it, if I were starting over, I'd probably do the 17 Fireball, as the brass is sturdier, & there is already formed brass available...

I'm just completing a rifle I'm dubbing my "red pine squirrel sniper rifle", which is an old Marlin model 788 relined to 17 Mach 2, & fitted with a BSA "sweet 17" scope

BTW... to the O.P... I also have a 10" 221 Fireball Contender barrel ( though I haven't had any time to play with it yet ) there may be carbine length barrels available, & that could be your cheapest "in" to the 221...

However, a quick G.B. search turned up this new in box Remington 221 Fireball for what I consider a "reasonable" price... check it out...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=149403272

also here is the page searching 221 Fireball, & you'll see there are several options... ( note the 24" Contender barrel )

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx

Hmmm... can't get the search to link... just type in 221 Fireball into the search box at the top of the page to get the results

Locoweed · December 9, 2009, 09:44 AM

A few years back Remington made a limited run of their model 700 in .221 FB. I'd get a rifle length Contender or G-2 in that caliber if I wanted a rifle. I use the XP-100 pistol myself. Factory loaded ammo is quite scarce so plan on reloading.

jglsprings · December 9, 2009, 10:01 AM

Cooper made one within the last five years that I know about.... but pricey.

Magnum Wheel Man · December 9, 2009, 10:10 AM

This CZ would be really nice...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=149655385

wch · December 9, 2009, 10:18 AM

Ummm, saw a new Rem lvssf in .221; anybody with an opinion?

wch · December 9, 2009, 10:20 AM

That should be Rem. LVSF

Magnum Wheel Man · December 9, 2009, 10:26 AM

if stainless ( like in my 1st link ), that looks like something I'd buy myself

jglsprings · December 9, 2009, 11:11 AM

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh I WANT that CZ!!

Scorch · December 9, 2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

What bolt action would you suggest for a custom 221 fireball?

Many years ago, I built several custom rifles on small Sako actions, and that would be just about perfect if you can lay your hands on one. If not, I would choose a Remington Model 7, 799, or a CZ action for the build, in that order.

As others have said, there are factory rifles available. Remington made the XR-100 single-shot, 700 LS, 700 LVSF, and possibly others in 221 Fireball, but they have apparently dropped the chambering again. Since you asked about custom rifles, I assume you have already looked into those.

Quote:

I doubt there has been chambered in 30+ years...

Quote:

Cooper Arms makes their Model 38 action/rifle in it but they aren't cheap starting at around $1,500.

Cooper Arms makes single-shot bolt actions in just about any chambering you could ask for. Yes, they are expensive, but worth every penny.

**44 AMP** · December 9, 2009, 01:21 PM

I have to wonder ...why?

I do understand a love of an oddball/uncommon cartridge, I have several I'm in love with myself. But, the .221 Fireball is a true specialty round, designed for one single purpose, to maximize efficiency in a 10" barrel. Thats why the XP-100 was in .221 insterad of .222Rem. The .222 Rem just has a little more powder capacity than can be utilized by a 10" barrel. SO, Remington shortened the case body a little bit, to "waste" less. Of course, it also had the benefit of creating another Remington product to buy!

If you are going to use a rifle length barrel, the .221 Fireball will gain a fair bit of speed, but not as much as can be had with the .222 Remington. IF you are going to do it because of a love of the .221, enjoy yourself, thats what its all about, right? But if you are going to do it to get the most from a light varminter, go with a larger case, for more fps. .222 or even (and I hate to say this,

) .223 with give you more, with the same bullets.

SeekHer · December 9, 2009, 09:13 PM

Scorch -- the gun club I belong to is populated with lots of old fogies like myself who remember and maintain the old cartridges...221 Fireball, .222 Rem, .224 Weatherby, .225 Win, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .22 Hornet, .220 Swift, .218 Mashburn Bee, .218 Donaldson Wasp, .22 Squirrel, .22 Snipe, .220 & .240 Coyote, .256 Newton, .280 Ross, 7x35 Waters and about 50 more...

Most of us are avid sub caliber centerfire shooters from .14, .15, .17, .19 and .20 wildcats and the few commercials loadings...

We also are trying to preserve the old rifles like Martini Henry, Winchester 1885 Hi & Low and of course Model 70s (pre 64 all), Ballard, Stevens, Wesson, Borchardt, Hepburn, Newton, Ross and Farquharson and especially the old exterior adjusted long target/varmint scopes by Unertl, Remington, Lyman etc...

The CZ is a lovely action and I have a .19 Badger built on it and the two other .19s, .19/223 and .19 Calhoun on Anschutz actions...

Those old Sako small actions have built a lot of guns around here as have P14/17s, Tikka and Mannlicher...Lots of BAT, Stolle, Nesika Bay, Borden as well...

We have about 153 members left, 70% over 50 yrs old, ten moved for work and seven died this year alone and there is probably 70+ Cooper rifles amongst us and a number of the guys have gotten heavy into the new Dakota Predators and the Millers they bought out...

Who other then Remington made .221 Fireballs? Of commercial not semi or full custom makers and excluding the X pistol and its clones how many rifles has Remington chambered in it since the 1980s...few and damn far between and then only for a limited time or a special run of a very limited number of rifles! Okay, then in that case it would be 20+ years not 30+...

omega · December 10, 2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

I do understand a love of an oddball/uncommon cartridge, I have several I'm in love with myself. But, the .221 Fireball is a true specialty round, designed for one single purpose, to maximize efficiency in a 10" barrel. Thats why the XP-100 was in .221 insterad of .222Rem. The .222 Rem just has a little more powder capacity than can be utilized by a 10" barrel. SO, Remington shortened the case body a little bit, to "waste" less. Of course, it also had the benefit of creating another Remington product to buy!

If you are going to use a rifle length barrel, the .221 Fireball will gain a fair bit of speed, but not as much as can be had with the .222 Remington. IF you are going to do it because of a love of the .221, enjoy yourself, thats what its all about, right? But if you are going to do it to get the most from a light varminter, go with a larger case, for more fps. .222 or even (and I hate to say this, ) .223 with give you more, with the same bullets.

You seem well versed, 44 AMP, in the pragmatics of caliber selection. What would be your opinion, say, of the 22-250 thru a 14" barrel?

I am considering an XP100R in this configuration and would value your opinion. Which barrel length would make the most sense in a .17 XP?

Thanks.

tjh · December 10, 2009, 09:56 AM

C-Z USA is the way to go ,thier model 527 American is sweet . Some don't like the exposed magazine , but they are very accurate. 221 fireball is a great little cartrigde .

Inspector3711 · December 10, 2009, 10:57 AM

Someone asked about the Rem 700 LVSF... I have one in .223. My opinion is that it's a great little rifle with a pretty light barrel profile. It's intended as a predator rifle to be carried in the field. Mine shoots 3/4 MOA with hand loads and 1 MOA with factory ammunition.

It's a great setup (especially with the new trigger if you can get it) but it isn't meant for hard core varminting. The barrel is too slim for high volume shooting.

jglsprings · December 10, 2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

C-Z USA is the way to go ,thier model 527 American is sweet . Some don't like the exposed magazine , but they are very accurate. 221 fireball is a great little cartrigde .

Is the 527 still offered by CZ in 221? I couldn't find it on their web site. But their web site leaves little to be desired for searching....

tjh · December 10, 2009, 11:24 PM

Its listed in my 2009 catalog , SKU #03023 . Gun shop next town over had one a few weeks ago , they may have sold it by now . Would like to have one someday when $ improves .

Relentless Pursuit · December 13, 2009, 03:28 PM

Buildja a 223AI and live a little. 700 based,of course.

Or punch out the new Kimber Montana 1-9" 223 to 223AI,they are splendid rifles.............

December 9, 2009, 04:59 AM	#1
wch Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 69	221 fireball [B]What bolt action would you suggest for a custom 221 fireball? Or, is there a factory rifle that is so chambered that isn't too expensive?

December 9, 2009, 05:12 AM	#2
SeekHer Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 295	I doubt there has been chambered in 30+ years...They came out for the single shot bolt action pistols for silhouette and varmints... It's a great little cartridge and is a great killer to 250 yds... Cooper Arms makes their Model 38 action/rifle in it but they aren't cheap starting at around $1,500... __________________ There is a certain type of mentality that thinks if you make certain inanimate objects illegal their criminal misuse will disappear! When the human race dies out, it will be because it was brainwashed to be so totally, completely, utterly safe that it no longer dared to keep on living

December 9, 2009, 07:25 AM	#3
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I was just thinking the same thing the other day... er... well actually I was looking at the newer 17 Fireball ( same case necked down to 17 caliber ) I don't think Remington has discontinued all these rifles... while they no longer chamber the 221, any of those listed for the 17 Fireball could easily be rebarreled... http://www.remington.com/products/fi...y_calibers.asp __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

December 9, 2009, 07:59 AM	#4
omega Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2009 Location: homeless Posts: 140	I'm not a rifle guy and can't talk specifically to the thread, but I've always been fascinated by the .17 caliber cartridge. Used to have a Remington XP100 single-shot bolt action pistol chambered in the old .17 Mach IV. Used it for road hunting. Sending 25 grains of jacketed lead downrange at 4,000 FPS can lead to remarkable ballistics with a pistol, so I imagine doing it with a long gun could be a lot of fun. __________________ end up with the right regrets

December 9, 2009, 08:16 AM	#5
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	My father in law ( whose collection we manage ) had several 17 Remingtons, & I just couldn't get into the cartridge myself... but he also collected Contenders, & several years after he died, I found a nice unshot 10" octogon 17 K Hornet barrel, & finally this last year got dies for it, & began loading for it... I'm really liking it, however, there are a lot of steps to loading it, if I were starting over, I'd probably do the 17 Fireball, as the brass is sturdier, & there is already formed brass available... I'm just completing a rifle I'm dubbing my "red pine squirrel sniper rifle", which is an old Marlin model 788 relined to 17 Mach 2, & fitted with a BSA "sweet 17" scope BTW... to the O.P... I also have a 10" 221 Fireball Contender barrel ( though I haven't had any time to play with it yet ) there may be carbine length barrels available, & that could be your cheapest "in" to the 221... However, a quick G.B. search turned up this new in box Remington 221 Fireball for what I consider a "reasonable" price... check it out... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=149403272 also here is the page searching 221 Fireball, & you'll see there are several options... ( note the 24" Contender barrel ) http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx Hmmm... can't get the search to link... just type in 221 Fireball into the search box at the top of the page to get the results __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

December 9, 2009, 09:44 AM	#6
Locoweed Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 661	A few years back Remington made a limited run of their model 700 in .221 FB. I'd get a rifle length Contender or G-2 in that caliber if I wanted a rifle. I use the XP-100 pistol myself. Factory loaded ammo is quite scarce so plan on reloading.

December 9, 2009, 10:01 AM	#7
jglsprings Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2009 Posts: 1,827	Cooper made one within the last five years that I know about.... but pricey. __________________ Let's eat Grandma. Let's eat, Grandma. Commas save lives...

December 9, 2009, 10:10 AM	#8
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	This CZ would be really nice... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=149655385 __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

December 9, 2009, 10:18 AM	#9
wch Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 69	Rem LVSF Ummm, saw a new Rem lvssf in .221; anybody with an opinion?

December 9, 2009, 10:20 AM	#10
wch Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 69	LVSF That should be Rem. LVSF

December 9, 2009, 10:26 AM	#11
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	if stainless ( like in my 1st link ), that looks like something I'd buy myself __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

December 9, 2009, 11:11 AM	#12
jglsprings Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2009 Posts: 1,827	Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh I WANT that CZ!! __________________ Let's eat Grandma. Let's eat, Grandma. Commas save lives...

December 9, 2009, 01:21 PM	#14
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,894	Other than a love of an oddball cartridge.... I have to wonder ...why? I do understand a love of an oddball/uncommon cartridge, I have several I'm in love with myself. But, the .221 Fireball is a true specialty round, designed for one single purpose, to maximize efficiency in a 10" barrel. Thats why the XP-100 was in .221 insterad of .222Rem. The .222 Rem just has a little more powder capacity than can be utilized by a 10" barrel. SO, Remington shortened the case body a little bit, to "waste" less. Of course, it also had the benefit of creating another Remington product to buy! If you are going to use a rifle length barrel, the .221 Fireball will gain a fair bit of speed, but not as much as can be had with the .222 Remington. IF you are going to do it because of a love of the .221, enjoy yourself, thats what its all about, right? But if you are going to do it to get the most from a light varminter, go with a larger case, for more fps. .222 or even (and I hate to say this, ) .223 with give you more, with the same bullets. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 9, 2009, 09:13 PM	#15
SeekHer Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 295	Scorch -- the gun club I belong to is populated with lots of old fogies like myself who remember and maintain the old cartridges...221 Fireball, .222 Rem, .224 Weatherby, .225 Win, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .22 Hornet, .220 Swift, .218 Mashburn Bee, .218 Donaldson Wasp, .22 Squirrel, .22 Snipe, .220 & .240 Coyote, .256 Newton, .280 Ross, 7x35 Waters and about 50 more... Most of us are avid sub caliber centerfire shooters from .14, .15, .17, .19 and .20 wildcats and the few commercials loadings... We also are trying to preserve the old rifles like Martini Henry, Winchester 1885 Hi & Low and of course Model 70s (pre 64 all), Ballard, Stevens, Wesson, Borchardt, Hepburn, Newton, Ross and Farquharson and especially the old exterior adjusted long target/varmint scopes by Unertl, Remington, Lyman etc... The CZ is a lovely action and I have a .19 Badger built on it and the two other .19s, .19/223 and .19 Calhoun on Anschutz actions... Those old Sako small actions have built a lot of guns around here as have P14/17s, Tikka and Mannlicher...Lots of BAT, Stolle, Nesika Bay, Borden as well... We have about 153 members left, 70% over 50 yrs old, ten moved for work and seven died this year alone and there is probably 70+ Cooper rifles amongst us and a number of the guys have gotten heavy into the new Dakota Predators and the Millers they bought out... Who other then Remington made .221 Fireballs? Of commercial not semi or full custom makers and excluding the X pistol and its clones how many rifles has Remington chambered in it since the 1980s...few and damn far between and then only for a limited time or a special run of a very limited number of rifles! Okay, then in that case it would be 20+ years not 30+... __________________ There is a certain type of mentality that thinks if you make certain inanimate objects illegal their criminal misuse will disappear! When the human race dies out, it will be because it was brainwashed to be so totally, completely, utterly safe that it no longer dared to keep on living

December 10, 2009, 09:56 AM	#17
tjh Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Location: North Central Ohio Posts: 171	C-Z USA is the way to go ,thier model 527 American is sweet . Some don't like the exposed magazine , but they are very accurate. 221 fireball is a great little cartrigde .

December 10, 2009, 10:57 AM	#18
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	Someone asked about the Rem 700 LVSF... I have one in .223. My opinion is that it's a great little rifle with a pretty light barrel profile. It's intended as a predator rifle to be carried in the field. Mine shoots 3/4 MOA with hand loads and 1 MOA with factory ammunition. It's a great setup (especially with the new trigger if you can get it) but it isn't meant for hard core varminting. The barrel is too slim for high volume shooting. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

December 10, 2009, 11:24 PM	#20
tjh Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Location: North Central Ohio Posts: 171	Its listed in my 2009 catalog , SKU #03023 . Gun shop next town over had one a few weeks ago , they may have sold it by now . Would like to have one someday when $ improves .

December 13, 2009, 03:28 PM	#21
Relentless Pursuit Junior member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Posts: 116	Buildja a 223AI and live a little. 700 based,of course. Or punch out the new Kimber Montana 1-9" 223 to 223AI,they are splendid rifles.............