Loose Federal Cartridge primer pockets.

[mrawesome22]

I loaded some once fired F/C 30-06Springfield brass the other day and the primers went in very easily. I was using Win primers. The brass came from a 180gr Power-Shok factory loading.

Has anyone had this experience with Federal brass? Hell, after the second loading, they probably won't even hold a primer.

[fourrobert13]

I will not load federal brass at all any more. Every piece of brass I have delt with besides pistol brass has loose primer pockets. If I find it I toss it. Just my opinion, but I am pretty sure a few people will agree with me.

[SL1]

I have loaded some (older) .270 Winchester FC brass for years without having found the primers getting loose. But, I recently shot some Speer Lawman .357 Sig loads that had primers seat very easily on the first reload. Comparison of the case heads before and after firing showed 0.0006" expansion. That is a LOT of head expansion for a cartridge that is supposed to generate only 40,000 psi! I concluded that the brass was softer than normal. That would allow a normal-sized primer pocket to expand on first firing and get loose. But, to be sure, I should probably pull a bullet from an unfired factory round, deprime it, then check the fit of my usual reloading primer in an unfired case.

The good news is that the case heads will not expand again if fired at the same or less pressure. The brass work-hardens with the first firing (or any firing that causes permanent shape changes).

SL1

[stovepipe699]

MRAWSOME22, I had exactly the same thing happen to me with F-C brass in my 30-06. I have never had a problem in R-P brass. I also noticed the necks to be thicker on one side than the other(concentricity? I think?). The Remington cases are much better, and Winchester cases appear to be really even. I haven't yet used the W-W cases so I can't speak for the primer pockets. I plan to trade my Federal brass if I can find anyone that wants it. On the bright side, 30-06 brass is easy to come by. Good Luck
Rob

[The Tourist]

If you're sure that safety is not an issue, you might try CCI primers.

I've always found them a bit too big.

[Scorch]

I just reloaded some Federal 7X57 brass before hunting season, and the primers were very easy to seat, too easy in fact. Also found several with cracked necks. This brass has been relaoded 3 times now. After I fire this batch, the brass will wind up in the scrap bin. No more Federal brass for me, thank you.

[mrawesome22]

Sounds like the end of Federal brass for me as well. Thanks all.

[Ozzieman]

When it comes to pistol brass I will take Federal over any other any day. It’s because the primers go in much smother and they dont deform the primers by taking so much pressure to insert them.
I also have a large number of 6mm Federal that I have never used because the 100 rounds that I have been using over the past 10 years just seem to go on forever.
The question I have for those having problems is.
Are the primers backing out or just go in too easily?
If they go in easily I don’t find that a problem, but it there backing out that is a totally different thing
I have used mostly Federal primers and load 6mm Rem, 223 and 7mm mag and both the 6 and 7mm are mostly Federal brass and I have never had a primer back out and I have also used other primers.

[stovepipe699]

Mine were only fired once(bought ammo I fired myself) and the primers went in too easy. Very little resistance, and it's only going to get worse. The primers were Rem 9 1/2.

[steelbuster]

What's 'to easy' ??? Barring any other problems, I disagree that it's a bad thing. I to have found primer seating force to be easy in Fed brass but I have never had any problems with the loaded rounds. I find the seating force preferable over other brass brands

[joneb]

What's 'to easy' ???

This is a very good question, I have reloaded Federal Brass for pistol and rifle without any issues. I wonder if using a hard to seat primer like CCI or Win. would compound the (problem ?) when switching back to Federal primers

I also noticed the necks to be thicker on one side than the other(concentricity? I think?).

Out of a 100 Fed. .308 cases I kept only 60 for this reason.

[Thesenator]

Loose pockets are almost the norm with fired Federal rifle brass. Any I run across gets put away for potential use in a bolt gun if it looks any good(very few in that pile) and (if I run out of choices) or it gets scrapped on the spot. The brass is also soft and usually stretched above the web as well as loose pockets. Just not worth the headaches for me.

I won't buy any lot of once fired brass that contains any significant number of Federals and only pick it up on the range mostly to add to the scrap.

[Slamfire]

Yup, has happened to me.

I was given some once fired Federal Gold Medal Match in 308. I think we all agree that free brass is the best brass. Around the fifth reload I had to toss the stuff, pockets had gotten too large. You could tap the case and the primer would fall out. Shot some excellent long range scores with the stuff but it was not as durable as W/W or R-P.

I also picked up hundreds of .223 Federal Gold Medal Match from the service rifle teams at Camp Perry. They shoot factory out to 300 yards. Then home brews at 600 yards. If you are squadded with an AMU or Marine Corp guy, well they pick up their brass and trash, and if you want the brass, your shooting bud for the day will give it to you. God save and protect them, Great guys, all around.

That stuff is getting loose on the third reload.

I will use free federal, but I have had such excellent luck with W/W, that stuff is my preferred rifle brass. And I have shot up many ammo cans worth of LC. LC in 308 or .223 has consistently been excellent, with excellent durability. The early 60's LC Match 30-06 was excellent brass, you just don't see much of it anymore.

[JBriggs]

Had the same problem. Now use on Win. brass.

[stovepipe699]

Steelbuster, when I said the primers went in too easy, I mean I had to discard some cases because the primers were coming loose after priming. When I tried to place them in the shell holder for bullet seating, they didn't want to slide in b/c the primer was backing out. Maybe A CCI primer would fit nicely, since they are supposed to be larger. Most of the cases were OK, but seated so easily(hand priming tool) that I wonder if they will hold the primer after a few more firings. The factory rounds appeared to have the primers glued in place. I load b/c I want the best ammo I can have, so this bothers me and I would rather not use it.

[velocette]

I too have experienced primers seating very easily with Federal brass. By the third reloading, the primer seating is quite easy. I also have found loose expended primers in my tumbler after cleaning my .308 brass. The brass that the expended primer has fallen out of I discard. However, if the primer seats and will not come out during normal handling, is that adequate for use?

Roger

[bigautomatic]

Same story here with FC brass. Now I use Win. for general usage, and Lapua for the more serious stuff.

[Alleykat]

I 86 rifle Federal brass, when I find it in my brass supply.

[steelbuster]

Wow.. Fed brass hasn't fared well out there in reloader land I guess. As I said, I have had very good long term results with the Fed brass I use. I recall throwing very few away for any reason, but it's all used in Single shot or Bolt guns and only neck sized. Maybe thats why I haven't had the problems.
Based on what has been said here, I don't think I'll be recommending it to anyone anymore though.

[Alleykat]

I neck size for my bolt rifles. Still find the Federal brass to be crappy.

[steelbuster]

OK.... This is what I'm loading right now.
200 cases of .30/.30 that I use for IHMSA. These are heavy bullet, max loads that have been loaded 16 times. They have been trimmed once at the 9th reload and are neck sized only. The primer pockets are still 'correct', and the only other thing I've had to do was anneal the necks at the 10th loading.
The other set of 100 I'm doing now is 7mmMag. They are on there 7th reload. They are loaded with 62grs IMR4631 and 140 gr Noslers. These are also necksized .I had to trimmed the cases to minimum after the 3rd reload and I threw 2 case away so far with split necks.
Thats it.
For such crappy brass it seems to be doing OK for the way I'm loading it.

[halfempty]

I was on my third reload with a box 270 FC brass when a primer blew. The mod 70 win handled it very well. I guess I was very lucky. Seating the primers just didnt feel right but for some stupid reason I continued to reload them. That was the first mistake. The second mistake was working the loads up to fast. I was approaching max loads and increase the seating depth to far. The high pressure were flattening the cci200 primers. The first three shots I couldnt believe my eyes. You would have to mic the hole to see that it got bigger. I was going to quit and head for home to seat the bullets deaper to allieve the pressure and try them again. It was at this moment I decided continue. The next round ended it. The bullet exited the barrel, and with some powder burn to the eyes and a blacken bolt face the rifle and I survided. My point here is if they feel loose get rid of them and by all means never load them hot. I had bought several boxes of this stuff and threw most of it away. I did manage to salvage two boxes which I continue to reload for without the problem of loose fitting primers.

[steelbuster]

I saw a load workup series once where the person was using a test barrel with pressure transducer. By the time he noted any significant flattening of the primers, the load was SERIOUSLY overpressure. He felt that primer flattening was a signal to immediately reduce the load.
This may have had some bearing on the primer blowing out of your load.

[velocette]

As I had noted in this thread earlier, I too have experienced loose primers in Fed brass after two or more reloads. Yesterday, I took it upon myself to weigh a batch of my .308 brass.
I'd always read that GI brass is heavier, having less capacity than commercial brass, thus requiring roughly a 10% decrease in powder charge to avoid excessive pressures.

Well; I weighed a batch of Fed brass (with primer in) and the weights ran between 183 grains up to 187 grains with the majority running around 185 grains.
I then weighed some LC brass; Their weight ran 178 ~ 184 grains. Most running around 182 grains
Finally, I weighed some RP brass. The RP weights ran 169 ~ 174 grains, most at 171.

From this admittedly small sample, it would appear that the Federal brass being heavier than the GI, LC brass, would have even less capacity than the LC. Thus requiring an even larger reduction in charge weight to avoid excessive pressures.

Perhaps many people, (myself included) have been reloading Federal brass using powder charges suitable for most commercial brass. Thus unknowingly have been creating reloads that are in the upper range of pressures with the resultant short brass life and enlarged primer pockets caused by excessive pressure.

Any opinions out there??

Roger

[steelbuster]

That mirrors my experience. Most of my Fed brass is 6 to 8 years old so I can't speak for current stuff, but the cases were always heavier than any other brass I have.