First Handgun

Crudders32 · June 15, 2004, 07:33 AM

I am looking to buy my first handgun and was looking at spending between $300 and $500. I don't plan on carrying the gun too much, mostly using it for target shooting and home defense. I was looking at two guns specifically, the Ruger KP94 and the Sig Prosig 2009 both in 9mm. They were both pretty comprable in price, so I was looking for some input on which was a better gun. Thanks

FirstFreedom · June 15, 2004, 11:15 AM

I'd do a search here on "first handgun" or "first gun" or some such, and you should get a lot of threads on the very subject. But of those choices, I'd get the SigPro for sure. There is a very recent thread on this subject, either in Semi-auto, or the general handgun forum, which I can't seem to spot at the moment, but find it, and you'll see my recommendation for the CZ pistols, and others recommendations for various guns as well.

Hard Ball · June 15, 2004, 01:16 PM

Get the SIG. It is a far better pistol than the Ruger.

Majic · June 15, 2004, 05:15 PM

As this is your first handgun, then the logical question would be are you new to handguns?
Have you held both models you are looking at to see if they fit and feel good in the hand? One of the most important factors in shooting handguns is that the better they fit you, the better the chance you will shoot it accurately. Both of your choices are from quality makers, but the final decision should come from your hand.

gunrunner · June 15, 2004, 05:20 PM

i dont know of to many good guns for 300.00 maybe a used revolver. try and stick with 400-500 and you should have a very nice gun. Sig is very nice but more like the 500 dollar class, you can get any of the s&W or used browing which are very well built and will last.

croyance · June 16, 2004, 02:24 AM

For the price range, my personal first choise would be a CZ-75, as a new gun. In the used Beretta and Glock are good choices.

The SigPro is an under-rated gun. With the high bore-axis, recoil can be sharper than other guns. I have fired the 2040 and found the grip to be comfortable, if large. I think the main objection is that it is not a P-series Sig, which it is in fact not intended to be.

While I personally have no affinity for the Ruger, many swear by them. They are very solidly built and reliable. For me, they just don't feel as good in the hand. I have not been as accurate with them, though it seems to be all in my head. Others have great success with them.

It does come down to you. Which feels better in your hand? Pick a (safe) point and aim from a ready position. Which was easier to get on target?

IanS · June 16, 2004, 02:32 AM

Although the Rugers are solid guns I think the SIGPro is a better gun. I honestly have never shot a Ruger automatic but have owned a few of their revolvers. Their QC can be spotty I noticed while SIG's QC is almost beyond reproach. Not "perfection", there is no such thing, but its as good as anybody can ask for. For a first gun I think its better to have a good purchasing experience.

The SIGPro's are going for @ $400 these days and its an incredible value. I've shot the .40 version (SP2340) many times and would say they are as good or better than any other polymer pistol from Glocks to H&K USP's. And as far as felt recoil goes it is one of the easier .40 calibers to shoot. I can only imagine how easier it would be in 9mm. There are quite a few Federal agencies and police deparments that issue the SIGPro and seem to be happy with them so they have been "proven" to a degree.

Although most SIG pistols are good to go out of the box I have heard the SIGPro models do need a "break in" period of @ 500 rounds before reliable operation. There may be a few jams during that period. So during that period stay away from 115 grain Winchester White Box and UMC and the like. Find some ammo by Fiocchi they usually run a bit hotter. That way all the parts are more quickly "worn in" for reliable operation. After that its all gravy.

Visit www.sigforum.com for more info. They're a good group and you'll be welcomed into the wonderful world of SIG pistols.

Crudders32 · June 16, 2004, 09:45 AM

Before this posting I was leaning toward the ruger, but after getting some responses and talking to some people at a local gun shop I think that I am leaning towards the Sig. Both feel very similar in my hand and are basically the same size. I also found a used CZ-85 that I have begun to consider. The one person I talked to at the gun shop told me that the sig was on a whole nother level than the Ruger or the CZ and if I liked the Sig then i should definately get it. Any additional input/advise would be much appreciated. Thanks alot.

Texcowboy9 · June 16, 2004, 04:52 PM

Crudders32, Beware of clerks at gun shops! You are right to go thru the differant forums and get opinions from those of us who have nothing to gain from your purchase of a handgun. A SIG is a good gun, my choice would be the CZ. I like that way a CZ feels and the slide within the frame (instead of the slide riding over the rails of the frame) in my opinion make it stronger. I feel in general, that CZ is a lot of gun for the money.

Hammerhead · June 16, 2004, 06:45 PM

The Sig pros are nice. Rugers are just too ugly for a first gun.
A used Sig P226 in 9mm would be even better. The P226 will never wear out so a used one would be fine. A used one probably would have a better trigger. CZ is definatly worth a look. My first 9mm was a Glock 34 and the Glock triggers are not the easiest to learn.
All my 9mm now are HKs and they are great as well if you can find a used one in your price range.
Best accuracy and best triggers would be a CZ, Sig or HK.
I've gone through a lot of pistols and money. It took me a long time to learn that the one that fits your hand best is the one you will probably shoot the best. Proper hand fit makes trigger controll easier.
Good luck and shoot safely.

Patrick Murphy · June 16, 2004, 09:22 PM

My advice is to take a look here:

http://www.czusa.com/product.pistols.php

Then here for perhaps the lowest price:

http://www.sportingarms.com/

jekla · June 16, 2004, 10:27 PM

crudders 32,

if you are fixed on those two guns then the sig would be a better choice but thats my opinion. i myself just recently got me a new plastic gun. i did was consider the sigpro, glock 19, hk usp, and walther p99. the sigpro and usp are a bit on the thick side in the grips. the glock and p99 had better ergonomics i.e. they fit my hand better. down the line i went with the p99 in 9mm. the usp i admit would have been a good choice but it was a bit out of my price range and it didnt fit right.

croyance · June 17, 2004, 02:41 AM

The clerk was partially right. I believe that the Sig P-series is one of the best production handguns. The SigPro is not meant to be on quite the same level. Would I trust it? Yes. Is it the best? No.

The CZ-75 is a better deal for $400, imho. It is a very solid and well made gun. I think it is as good as many guns in the $600-$700 range. The Czechs have a tradition of quality firearms and it shows. The CZ was designed for military/police work, a rugged design. Triggers are good for a DA/SA design, though the first DA pull is long.
The CZ-85 is a 75 with ambidextrous controls.

Check and see which feels best in your hands. See which points more naturally for you.

croyance · June 17, 2004, 02:45 AM

Forgot to say, if you are not comfortable with a gun that has no decocker, but is made for cocked and locked carry (or manual decocking) then do not get the CZ-85 or the CZ-75B. Rather, you would be looking for the CD-75BD, the "D" meaning decocker.

denfoote · June 17, 2004, 03:05 AM

My view is that you can't go wrong with the Ruger!!
Gun shop critters don't like it because they don't get as much commission on Rugers as opposed to the higher priced guns. My second semi auto was the Ruger P95, which is a solid gun that I still have. The P95 is the polymer framed version of the P94.

I suppose you could go with the Sig, but they just are not my cup of tea.

My experience with Rugers is that they will digest anything, including Wolf, a particularly nasty steel cased round, without so much as a hiccup. No, I lie!! My P95 finally coughed after eating about 350 continuously fired wolves!! The chamber became mucked up from the lacquer finish that was on the cases!! A boresnake through the chamber and it was ready to rock again!!
Oh, did I mention that they go bang every time you pull the trigger??
The accuracy ain't bad either!! I shot a quarter size hole with 15 rounds from a distance of about 15 yards.

FirstFreedom · June 17, 2004, 10:27 AM

"The one person I talked to at the gun shop told me that the sig was on a whole nother level than the Ruger or the CZ and if I liked the Sig then i should definately get it."

That person is wrong. Nothing is better than the CZ. Some may be as good, but not better. This Sig is as good, fit and finish and QC-wise, but it's polymer. If you're gonna get a .40, then I'd get a CZ, cuz in the event of a KB (gawd forbid), the CZ will just lose a mag, maybe some other parts. A KB in a polymer gun, you will lose the entire frame in all likelihood, and maybe a chunk of one of your fingers as well.

Crudders32 · June 18, 2004, 07:26 AM

I went and picked my my new Sig Pro 2009 9mm last night, but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I got what I thought was such a good deal on it that I couldn't pass it up. I got prices on them at three different places and they were $497, $440, and $399. I heard about the one for $399 on the Sig forum and it just so happened that the store was about 10 mins. away from where I work. It is also the one with the manual safey and short trigger, which I liked, but I know the supply was limited on them so I didn't think that I was going to be able to get one. I took it home and field stripped it so I could become familiar with it. I am happy with it so far, now all I have to do is see how it shoots. Thanks for all your input, in the end I figured that the Sig was a better gun for the same price. Only time will tell if I feel I made the right decision.

June 15, 2004, 07:33 AM	#1
Crudders32 Junior Member Join Date: June 15, 2004 Location: PA Posts: 7	First Handgun I am looking to buy my first handgun and was looking at spending between $300 and $500. I don't plan on carrying the gun too much, mostly using it for target shooting and home defense. I was looking at two guns specifically, the Ruger KP94 and the Sig Prosig 2009 both in 9mm. They were both pretty comprable in price, so I was looking for some input on which was a better gun. Thanks

June 15, 2004, 01:16 PM	#3
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Get the SIG. It is a far better pistol than the Ruger. __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

June 16, 2004, 09:45 AM	#8
Crudders32 Junior Member Join Date: June 15, 2004 Location: PA Posts: 7	Status Update Before this posting I was leaning toward the ruger, but after getting some responses and talking to some people at a local gun shop I think that I am leaning towards the Sig. Both feel very similar in my hand and are basically the same size. I also found a used CZ-85 that I have begun to consider. The one person I talked to at the gun shop told me that the sig was on a whole nother level than the Ruger or the CZ and if I liked the Sig then i should definately get it. Any additional input/advise would be much appreciated. Thanks alot.

June 16, 2004, 04:52 PM	#9
Texcowboy9 Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 36	Crudders32, Beware of clerks at gun shops! You are right to go thru the differant forums and get opinions from those of us who have nothing to gain from your purchase of a handgun. A SIG is a good gun, my choice would be the CZ. I like that way a CZ feels and the slide within the frame (instead of the slide riding over the rails of the frame) in my opinion make it stronger. I feel in general, that CZ is a lot of gun for the money. __________________ Send Whiskey, Lawyers, Guns and Money, the S--t has hit the fan!

June 16, 2004, 09:22 PM	#11
Patrick Murphy Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Posts: 96	My advice is to take a look here: http://www.czusa.com/product.pistols.php Then here for perhaps the lowest price: http://www.sportingarms.com/ __________________ Murph

June 15, 2004, 11:15 AM	#2
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	I'd do a search here on "first handgun" or "first gun" or some such, and you should get a lot of threads on the very subject. But of those choices, I'd get the SigPro for sure. There is a very recent thread on this subject, either in Semi-auto, or the general handgun forum, which I can't seem to spot at the moment, but find it, and you'll see my recommendation for the CZ pistols, and others recommendations for various guns as well.

June 15, 2004, 05:15 PM	#4
Majic Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3,888	As this is your first handgun, then the logical question would be are you new to handguns? Have you held both models you are looking at to see if they fit and feel good in the hand? One of the most important factors in shooting handguns is that the better they fit you, the better the chance you will shoot it accurately. Both of your choices are from quality makers, but the final decision should come from your hand.

June 15, 2004, 05:20 PM	#5
gunrunner Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 1999 Posts: 236	i dont know of to many good guns for 300.00 maybe a used revolver. try and stick with 400-500 and you should have a very nice gun. Sig is very nice but more like the 500 dollar class, you can get any of the s&W or used browing which are very well built and will last.

June 16, 2004, 02:24 AM	#6
croyance Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2001 Posts: 3,604	For the price range, my personal first choise would be a CZ-75, as a new gun. In the used Beretta and Glock are good choices. The SigPro is an under-rated gun. With the high bore-axis, recoil can be sharper than other guns. I have fired the 2040 and found the grip to be comfortable, if large. I think the main objection is that it is not a P-series Sig, which it is in fact not intended to be. While I personally have no affinity for the Ruger, many swear by them. They are very solidly built and reliable. For me, they just don't feel as good in the hand. I have not been as accurate with them, though it seems to be all in my head. Others have great success with them. It does come down to you. Which feels better in your hand? Pick a (safe) point and aim from a ready position. Which was easier to get on target?

June 16, 2004, 02:32 AM	#7
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	Although the Rugers are solid guns I think the SIGPro is a better gun. I honestly have never shot a Ruger automatic but have owned a few of their revolvers. Their QC can be spotty I noticed while SIG's QC is almost beyond reproach. Not "perfection", there is no such thing, but its as good as anybody can ask for. For a first gun I think its better to have a good purchasing experience. The SIGPro's are going for @ $400 these days and its an incredible value. I've shot the .40 version (SP2340) many times and would say they are as good or better than any other polymer pistol from Glocks to H&K USP's. And as far as felt recoil goes it is one of the easier .40 calibers to shoot. I can only imagine how easier it would be in 9mm. There are quite a few Federal agencies and police deparments that issue the SIGPro and seem to be happy with them so they have been "proven" to a degree. Although most SIG pistols are good to go out of the box I have heard the SIGPro models do need a "break in" period of @ 500 rounds before reliable operation. There may be a few jams during that period. So during that period stay away from 115 grain Winchester White Box and UMC and the like. Find some ammo by Fiocchi they usually run a bit hotter. That way all the parts are more quickly "worn in" for reliable operation. After that its all gravy. Visit www.sigforum.com for more info. They're a good group and you'll be welcomed into the wonderful world of SIG pistols.

June 16, 2004, 06:45 PM	#10
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	The Sig pros are nice. Rugers are just too ugly for a first gun. A used Sig P226 in 9mm would be even better. The P226 will never wear out so a used one would be fine. A used one probably would have a better trigger. CZ is definatly worth a look. My first 9mm was a Glock 34 and the Glock triggers are not the easiest to learn. All my 9mm now are HKs and they are great as well if you can find a used one in your price range. Best accuracy and best triggers would be a CZ, Sig or HK. I've gone through a lot of pistols and money. It took me a long time to learn that the one that fits your hand best is the one you will probably shoot the best. Proper hand fit makes trigger controll easier. Good luck and shoot safely.

June 16, 2004, 10:27 PM	#12
jekla Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 136	crudders 32, if you are fixed on those two guns then the sig would be a better choice but thats my opinion. i myself just recently got me a new plastic gun. i did was consider the sigpro, glock 19, hk usp, and walther p99. the sigpro and usp are a bit on the thick side in the grips. the glock and p99 had better ergonomics i.e. they fit my hand better. down the line i went with the p99 in 9mm. the usp i admit would have been a good choice but it was a bit out of my price range and it didnt fit right.

June 17, 2004, 02:41 AM	#13
croyance Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2001 Posts: 3,604	The clerk was partially right. I believe that the Sig P-series is one of the best production handguns. The SigPro is not meant to be on quite the same level. Would I trust it? Yes. Is it the best? No. The CZ-75 is a better deal for $400, imho. It is a very solid and well made gun. I think it is as good as many guns in the $600-$700 range. The Czechs have a tradition of quality firearms and it shows. The CZ was designed for military/police work, a rugged design. Triggers are good for a DA/SA design, though the first DA pull is long. The CZ-85 is a 75 with ambidextrous controls. Check and see which feels best in your hands. See which points more naturally for you.

June 17, 2004, 02:45 AM	#14
croyance Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2001 Posts: 3,604	Forgot to say, if you are not comfortable with a gun that has no decocker, but is made for cocked and locked carry (or manual decocking) then do not get the CZ-85 or the CZ-75B. Rather, you would be looking for the CD-75BD, the "D" meaning decocker.

June 17, 2004, 03:05 AM	#15
denfoote Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Location: Buckeye Arizona Posts: 5,526	My view is that you can't go wrong with the Ruger!! Gun shop critters don't like it because they don't get as much commission on Rugers as opposed to the higher priced guns. My second semi auto was the Ruger P95, which is a solid gun that I still have. The P95 is the polymer framed version of the P94. I suppose you could go with the Sig, but they just are not my cup of tea. My experience with Rugers is that they will digest anything, including Wolf, a particularly nasty steel cased round, without so much as a hiccup. No, I lie!! My P95 finally coughed after eating about 350 continuously fired wolves!! The chamber became mucked up from the lacquer finish that was on the cases!! A boresnake through the chamber and it was ready to rock again!! Oh, did I mention that they go bang every time you pull the trigger?? The accuracy ain't bad either!! I shot a quarter size hole with 15 rounds from a distance of about 15 yards. __________________ Ich bin kein Nationalsozialist!!!!!! Ich bin Republikaner!!!!!!!! Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset. Arizona: Flush the Johns!!!

June 17, 2004, 10:27 AM	#16
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	"The one person I talked to at the gun shop told me that the sig was on a whole nother level than the Ruger or the CZ and if I liked the Sig then i should definately get it." That person is wrong. Nothing is better than the CZ. Some may be as good, but not better. This Sig is as good, fit and finish and QC-wise, but it's polymer. If you're gonna get a .40, then I'd get a CZ, cuz in the event of a KB (gawd forbid), the CZ will just lose a mag, maybe some other parts. A KB in a polymer gun, you will lose the entire frame in all likelihood, and maybe a chunk of one of your fingers as well.

June 18, 2004, 07:26 AM	#17
Crudders32 Junior Member Join Date: June 15, 2004 Location: PA Posts: 7	Got a New Sig Pro I went and picked my my new Sig Pro 2009 9mm last night, but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I got what I thought was such a good deal on it that I couldn't pass it up. I got prices on them at three different places and they were $497, $440, and $399. I heard about the one for $399 on the Sig forum and it just so happened that the store was about 10 mins. away from where I work. It is also the one with the manual safey and short trigger, which I liked, but I know the supply was limited on them so I didn't think that I was going to be able to get one. I took it home and field stripped it so I could become familiar with it. I am happy with it so far, now all I have to do is see how it shoots. Thanks for all your input, in the end I figured that the Sig was a better gun for the same price. Only time will tell if I feel I made the right decision.