Goodbye TFL- for now

[Gary H]

The guy has less information than he suggests. He is trying to get you to cop to anything that will justify sending folks out. If he really had something, they would not have used the telephone to contact you. Your first visit would have been up close and personal. Remember, they can misquote you at any time and put you in a really bad spot. Don't talk to them without a lawyer, or if it is legal in your state, a recording. I would get myself a tape recorder and find out what it takes to make it's use legal. Also, contact the folks URL'd above..now.

[vulcan]

Unfortunately as the pressure increases on the alphabet agencies to come up with a lead, more of these incidents will happen.

[King]

It's not suprising that the Fed's would check out people whom they believe to be firearm enthusiasts. However, they could behave better and at least earn your cooperation with far less intimidation.

Like the others, I think that I would get a lawyer as well. I also agree that the NRA (or other legitimate pro-gun groups) may wish to assist you as well.

Otherwise, it's delporable how your situation is being handled. Reasonably, you should get cleared so that you can move on. Since you don't have a .223, I don't see what their issue is unless they think that you have one that isnt registered to you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Krautgunner]

And above all, become a conservative REPUBLICAN!!!

[Guy B. Meredith]

Chaim,

You need to get this guy's name and get a lawyer. He has tried to violate at least two of your civil rights. Do not talk to him further as you are letting him have his way with your civil rights and are possible giving implicit approval for him to do so.

[Tropical Z]

WOW!
It looks like our government thugs are alive and well.

[JBP]

If this scenario is true, not that I'm doubting Chaim, then I should be receiving a similar phone call anytime now (well maybe tomorrow since today is a Federal holiday). I just checked my database and I've purchased 22 guns since 1/2001 and I live in Maryland. The one difference may be is that I'm registered with the MSP as a collector which gets me around the one gun a month law. I was at the range last week and this morning and didn't see any LEO types or black helicopters hovering around.

[Bogie]

I suspect that what got Chaim the attention is his background.

[Sodbuster]

Didn't Bush the Elder resign from the NRA because there is no such thing as jack-booted thugs?

[KimberLady]

chaim:

I'm coming out of retirement for this. All I can tell you is that in any future dealings with FBI, inform them that you are recording the conversation. If you are (gasp) called in for an interview, borrow a Dictaphone recorder and indicate to them that you will not interview without a recording.

They will likely bid you good day. FBI has more or less standing policy to not conduct interviews that are recorded. And I'll echo everyone else - GET A LAWYER.

[Goaltender66]

Ditto to Gary H. If there was any concrete reason to suspect you, the visit would have been in person and not over the telephone.

In MD, LEOs are canvassing gun dealers and collecting their 4473s (which they are, required by law, to keep forever). From this, they are trying to cross reference owners likely to own the firearms suspected in the shootings. It was a cold call, nothing more.

Remember, there is no law that says you have to talk to these guys.

Goalie

[Wolfgang]

Be careful with the recording---remember Linda Tripp?

[Malone LaVeigh]

Something stinks about this. I wonder if they really have the information on you they claim. Some of the forms not filled out? C'mon, any FFL that did that would be looking at losing their license in a hurry.

I suspect they got a "tip" from someone (maybe close to you?) who knows about your "arsenal." They're begging for any leads they can get right now, and it wouldn't take anything for a neighbor or "friend" to call the number and mention the local "gun nut." They don't have the manpower to follow up on every one, so they're fishing, trying to see what leads thay can flush out.

[Drjones]

Some good advice here.

My thoughts:

a) Call a lawyer

b) Alert EVERY form of media you can think of

c) Do not talk to them further until you have a lawyer.


This is the USA. They are obviously not citizens of it. Oh, right, they aren't...they're the government I forgot...

I wish you the best.

[DScottHewitt]

Definately call the NRA!!!!!

Take a NRA lawyer, if you can get one, to ALL "meetings" they wish to have.....

Scott

[fight4yourrights]

Sometimes the best advice is a good referral. Walter Booth (301) 913-0070.

You are not alone.

[Slish]

Chaim,

First of all, let me offer outraged sympathy. None of us should have to got through what you have went through. Having said that, what disturbs me the most is that it appears (if this agent was in fact telling the truth) as if the government has information on your firearm purchases through some means "not exactly legal".

I have to agree with Malone LaVeigh, something does stink! And either way. Either they HAVE the information (which they shouldn't) or they don't and was harassing someone based on a tip.

Let us know how this turns out. I'd bet that you've probably heard the end of it already.

[aquapong]

Maybe it depended on what someone buys...

I've bought 13 guns in the past year. I've not kept them all, but still. 10 handguns and 3 longguns. I still have 4 of the handguns and 2 of the longguns. If someone bought 12 AK's in the past year, I might understand the FBI's cause for concern. But telling you to stay away from the ranges and gun boards? That's BS. This is America, not a police state. Stay on TFL and go to the range like you normally do.

[Drjones]

Oh wow. I just read the part about you being advised to stay off of gun boards and away from ranges.

My blood is boiling.

Revolution, anyone?

[MikeK]

Chaim;

Check your private e-mail. I'm sure it will all work out.

[mcole]

i've found it very helpful and gets immediate results to send a registered, first class, restricted delivery letter to the director of the irs, explaining the situation and circumstances and exactly what happened and how your feel about it. the ag may work for this just fine. the result is that the irs director or here, the ag, has to personally sign for the letter. hand write the letter and be sure to include all the intimidations and threats. it seems to get their attention.
this is pure unadulterated fishing. imply's to me they are grasping at straws on this maryland shooter situation ( notice i didnt use the term sniper).
you should contact those various legal resources. mcole

[chaim]

OK guys.

First, I know the reaction this will get, but I'm waiting to get a lawyer. This doesn't mean I'm without legal advice. I am pretty sure (given that I haven't done anything illegal and my purchases have been pretty tame- a few revolvers and autopistols, 3 .22lr rifles, an SKS, a Mossberg 500 and a Winchester 94 over the past two years and I sold the Mossy and 3 handguns) that this is nothing but a fishing expedition and some "friend" notified them (some of my acquiantances are odd) or they told the truth and all MDers w/ more than 5-15 guns over the past couple years will get a call. Also, I have a friend and an aunt who are lawyers who I'm talking to for advice. If I get another call first thing I'll do is call a lawyer.

It probably was a cold call and frankly I mind less that I was called (though I'm not too crazy about that), what I really mind is HOW I was treated.

I'm sorry some of you got the wrong idea. The advice to stay away from boards and gun ranges was not from the FBI- that would be the lawyer friend (and I'm probably only going to pay attention re. the ranges, though as much because I'm broke as anything else). Of course the advice was based on the fact that being here could work against me should the FBI try to paint me as someone interesting.

If I try to record the phone converstation (should there be another) it would be legal only if I got their permission to do so. You can not record any phone call in MD (including one to you) without the other party's permission. That was why Linda Tripp was prosecuted (or rather WHAT she was prosecuted for). Since Tripp I understand that they've strengthened the law.

I suspect that what got Chaim the attention is his background.

Bogie,

What kind of background would that be? Moderate politically (registered Democrat, member of the Concord Coalition- a group dedicated to balanced budgets, member of the NRA, often involved with both major parties, depending on the candidate, as a volunteer during election cycles). Former member of the US Army. College degree. No criminal record (even as a juvenile). As a youth I was educated at both public and private schools. Religious (Orthodox Judaism is a traditional, but mainstream religion- kind of like being LDS or Catholic). Good record for volunteering for worthy causes (usually working with kids).

There really isn't any official anti-semetism in our government here. If we were in some other nations I could see that. Other than that there isn't really anything that would make me stand out (certainly not in a negative manner, and in this area I'm not unusual in any way- well, this is MD being a gun owner is somewhat unusual, instead of 50% the rate here is probably well under 25%).

I'd bet that you've probably heard the end of it already.

Slish,

I'm pretty sure you're right. Just in case I'm logging my activities and who I was with until they catch they guy and I'm talking to the friend and aunt who are lawyers to be sure I'm not being stupid. Again, if I do hear anything else from them I'll be sure to hire a lawyer first thing.

[Drjones]

Whew. That's good to know the FBI didn't order you to do all those things!

IF you get another call, and IF they were to decline having you record the call, then you say "5th amendment, I'll have my lawyer call you."

Or maybe you should do that as soon as you answer...

[Dex Sinister]

Chaim -

Remember: Because you have no idea what information the person whom you are talking to might consider “incriminating,” there is no answer in such a conversation that is, by its nature, non-incriminating. Even an answer as innocent as “I buy Kosher food at ______ store” could [theoretically] result in you being held / questioned in person / arrested, if for some reason they had a lead that made that particular innocent action seem suspicious. Don’t answer questions: No answer at all is a lot harder to distort into an accusation than an innocent answer is.

You have a right to know with whom you are speaking, his rank, his badge number, his office, its phone number, and his supervisor’s name.

You have the right to say to said caller, “I am recording this telephone call for use in court, please state your name and badge number for the record, as well as the exact purpose of your call.” [Don’t answer questions, just record manipulative abuse of power.]

Radio Shack sells a convenient device that activates a (separate) cassette recorder every time you pick up the phone for about $15. As pointed out, most answering machines also have a “memo” recording feature. If you’re going to use this, buy a longer tape to pop in – most answering machines use very short tapes.

[And finally, in “the best defense is a good offence” category,]
You have the right to send, by certified mail, a letter to this agent’s supervisor, adopting your best “egregiously-offended law-abiding citizen” guise, and do your best to get the jerk fired/demoted for being abusive. Most criminals do not file written complaints with FBI agent’s supervisors. Do not supply any information pertaining to you, except for recounting abuse, threats, and any identifiable lies [like those 14 missing police who never showed up at your house] committed by agent. Instruct supervisor that all further FBI contact with you will go through your lawyer first, and supply his/her name. Request that the complaint be put in agent’s permanent personnel file. Carbon copy ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FBI headquarters, A.G. John Ashcroft, your Congressperson, your Senator, the ADL, and the NRA. [Optionally, write the above and don’t send it – it will still make you feel better, and more in control.]

Dex

[Lord Grey Boots]

I believe the proper response to such a "fishing" call is to tell him to send you a letter with any questions in writing.

Ignore any threats. And thank him for his call.CLICK.