Sig jam issue - What's it called when...

[kayakersteve]

On my Sig, sometimes as I am shooting it, the next bullet advances up and starts into the barrel, but the slide stops just short of fully closing. What type of a jam/problem is this called? Whats the usual cause? - I could speculate more lube on slide rails would allow it to move easier and therefore close fully or could speculate that a heavier spring may do that also. Any feedback greatly appreciated.

[The Law]

Which model Sig?

[LightningJoe]

What you've got there is a failure to feed. SIGs are usually pretty reliable, but any automatic pistol can dislike a particular type of ammo.

[JWT]

Take a look at the feed ramp and see if it's dirty. If it is, clean it and your problem may be solved.

(My CZ sometimes jams - FTF- if I shoot 'dirty' ammo after about 100 rounds and if I clean the ramp off it feeds fine).

[EEL92fs]

This could also be caused by Limpwristing. Here is a link on it. http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a8/a8.html


Ben

[kayakersteve]

The Law:

It's the new sig revolution CompactC3 - Usually has been very reliable in spite of it's early reputation. Wasn't sure if its going to be a persistent issue or is isolated or something simple - That's why I posed the question.

How could polishing or cleaning the feed ramp help - Where it's hanging up, it's already beyond there??

I thought the slide may be not lubed enough or too weak of a spring - don't want to start changing parts yet.

Think I will continue break in (at 300 rounds now) and keep it cleaned and lubed. if it doesn't stop, then will send back to sig - Sound fair??

[jlbraun]

My 1989 Sig P226 does this as well after about 600 rounds. It's annoying. I'm considering getting rid of the pistol because of it. Stronger springs do not help. It is not limpwristing.

It's dirt accumulating in the chamber, feed ramp, and breechface. As soon as 600 rounds pass between cleanings, bam! Jam city. Fully 75% of the rounds in a magazine will FTF.

My CZ P-01 on the other hand, has gone 2500 rounds without cleaning or lube and has not had a single problem. The chamber is black and the feed ramp is black, and it still runs and runs.

[Yankee Doodle]

Why in the name of sanity would you let any pistol go uncleaned for 600 rounds? Unless your idea of a range session is a lot different than mine, a routine cleaning after firing the piece should, by your own admission, eliminate the problem.
Without trying to cause an argument here, you are complaining about a problem you are causing.

[kayakersteve]

I would agree - I try to clean after each shooting session which is usually around 100-150 rounds

[omegapd]

kayaker,

It's called a failure to return to battery. Most of the time it's caused by too weak of a recoil spring. Hope this helps.

EW

[kayakersteve]

omegapd - Is that possible with a brand new gun??? That's why I was wondering about proper lube of slide to make it move easier when cycling.

[Lurper]

Cleaning is a non-issue in a good firearm. I clean my competition guns about every 2,000 rounds or once a week whicever comes first. So, that is probably not a contributing factor. Lubrication (or the lack of) could be, but it's doubtful. Your feedramp is likely not the issue either. The boltface could be machined incorrectly, but that is not likely either. Also, a stronger spring is not necessarily a solution. A more likely cause is too much tension on the extractor. What happens is the extractor puts pressure on the rim of the cartridge as the gun goes into battery. The friction caused by this pressure stops the gun from going fully into battery. Iirc, SIG has an external extractor. They are a bit harder to work with. One way to test this is to rap the back of the slide the next time the gun fails to go into battery. Try to watch the extractor as it goes into battery. If you can reach the extractor with a small screwdriver, you can attempt to release the pressure and see if it goes into battery easier. REMEMBER TO DO THESE TESTS WITH YOUR FINGER OFF OF THE TRIGGER!
If it is the extractor, the easiest fix on an external extractor is to chamber a bunch of rounds either by firing or using dummy ammo.
Another thing to try is to let someone else shoot it for 50 - 100 rounds and see how much it malfunctions with them. If it doesn't malfunction for them and then malfunctions for you, the issue is your technique, not your firearm.

[parrothead2581]

Are you using only the factory mag? If so, try a 7-rounder with a dimpled follower. You can get a good one made for Springfield Armory through the Midway catalog.

A 1911 should run with a tight grip or a "limpwrist", upside down, sideways...anyway. If it doesn't run unless gripped just right or with Brand XYZ ammo while chanting your personal mantra, it's out of spec. Why would you trust it then?

[EEL92fs]

Thank you Lurper. I am sorry kayakersteve I did not have more time to say I was not attacking you for Limpwristing I was just saying this is something that happens to everyone (ummm). I was just meaning that on guns heavy or lite or just something you are not used to this can happen. I have a few Sigs and I never had a problem then one day I let a friend shot it and had the same problem you are talking about. The guy was not new to shooting and had some other guns but he would have the jam he changed how he was shooting and it worked with out a hitch. As lurper said you could let someone else shoot it and see if they have the same problem and this wouls be the test. I am not saying its not a Gun or Ammo problem it could be.

I did not mean to attack you and was only letting you know I have seen this before and offered some help.

Ben

[jlbraun]

Why in the name of sanity would you let any pistol go uncleaned for 600 rounds? Unless your idea of a range session is a lot different than mine, a routine cleaning after firing the piece should, by your own admission, eliminate the problem.
Without trying to cause an argument here, you are complaining about a problem you are causing.

I am annoyed by the fact that when I take a class that shoots 700 rounds, the Sig will start to jam just as we're getting to the really fun stuff at the end of the class. Why should I have to clean it in the middle of the day?

[zeroskillz]

I am annoyed by the fact that when I take a class that shoots 700 rounds, the Sig will start to jam just as we're getting to the really fun stuff ...?

I'll sell you a 226 that was made a little more recently than 1989. Might fix the issue for you.

[omegapd]

omegapd - Is that possible with a brand new gun?

Possible, yeah...maybe not something seen everyday but somebody could have mixed a spring up. It's an easy and inexpensive place to start, though. Maybe 10 bucks for a new spring? Wolf gunsprings should sell what you need in different weights. Let us know what happens the next time you head out. Personally, I would think that after 300 rounds the bugs should be worked out by then, but who knows...

[sammy69]

Where are you guys finding the money for all that ammo? Want to share??

[oldboyshooter]

Cleaning a non issue in a good firearm??? What. I clean after every range use, and sometimes just for the fun of tearing them apart.

Unless you are shooting the cleanest ammo in the world, I would not expect a gun to function well after 500 rounds with the tight tolerances that I like.

Now, after saying all that, I have a Remington 870 pump shot gun that I got when I was 10 and all I ever did was clean the barrel. When I was 16 to 18 I hunted every weekend of the season. I took it all apart last week and wow was it dirty. Now, a shot gun should be loose where I like my pistols tight.

By the way, that shotgun is over 45 years old now and still shoots great.

[IM_Lugger]

kayakersteve, I'm not sure if you have a feeding problem or failure to go into battery?

Does the round goes in the chamber but the slide is not fully closed? Or does the round 'misses' the chamber and hangs up between the slide and barrel?

[Pat H]

I would agree - I try to clean after each shooting session which is usually around 100-150 rounds

Since this is a relatively new pistol, did you disassemble both magazines and thoroughly clean the cosmoline out of them? Then clean and carefully lube the spring and follower, and equally carefully, reassemble them?

[chris in va]

My friend just bought a brand new stainless P229. We took it to the range and it did nothing but jam horribly on WWB. Every other shot actually.

Tried Blazer, did better on that stuff.

It shocked me actually because my older 220 is flawless in function.

Oh, and I didn't know they used cosmoline in non-military weapons...

[Seven High]

Kayakersteve: What type of ammunition are you using? Redloads? I suggest that you take the barrel out of the weapon, and drop each round of ammunition into the chamber. Check to see if it drops in all the way. It sounds to me like the ammunition is out of spec.

[kayakersteve]

IM Luger - It sounds to me like it a failure to return to battery - The bullet and 50% of brass are in the chamber when the slide stops. With gentle pressure on back of slide, it pops in the rest of the way - No force needed. Never has the round misaligned, just doesn't seat fully.

Pat H - Interestingly, these magazines appear to not be able to take apart - The base plate looks to be spot welded on - there is no center pin to depress like on my other autos - I did spray quick scrub to try to disssolve anything, but I don't know what else to do for that thought.

Seven High - I have been using white box remington, 230 gn for the most part - Also fed ~100 remington HP 230 gn. It is all new ammo so far. The rounds have no problem sliding right into the chamber; I have checked that.

[Pat H]

The day we allow the United States to submit to any authority besides itself and its citizenry is the day this country is finished.

Oh, yes, I see that you've bought the SIG 1911 style pistol. I think you may have to depress the magazine follower and spring, put something through a hole that should be on the side of the magazine to hold the spring compressed, and then dump the follower out. Then put something over the end of the magazine, like a towel, and carefully release the spring into it. You might want to have someone show you how to do this. My Colt Commander magazines disassemble like this. They're a PITA to reassemble, but they do need to be cleaned.

Someone mentioned cosmoline, all of my SIG magazines were full of it when still in the wrapper. It's my opinion that this drags on the follower just enough to interfere with magazine function. Over time, the cosmoline will accumulate enough dirt and grime to become worse.